Pidgeot/Cacturne deck (Unlimited)

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by White Gryphon, Oct 6, 2003.

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  1. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    I was looking for something that might go good with Cacturne, it sounded like a good idea for a bench assassin at the time... then I remembered Jungle Pidgeot and how it can bring big pokemon down to their basic stages, and how I had problems with bringing the benched Basics out where I could hit them. Now I see that they don't have to be in the Active spot for me to hit them...

    4 Pidgey (Expedition)
    3 Pidgeotto (Base)
    3 Pidgeot (Jungle)
    4 Cacnea (SS) (Poison Payback)
    3 Cacturne (SS)
    4 Dunsparce (SS)

    4 Lady Outing
    3 Energy Search
    4 Pokemon Breeder Fields
    4 Professor Elm
    2 Forest Guardian

    10 Fighting energy
    10 Water energy
    2 Bounce Energy

    I have in Fighting and Water energy because I thought about getting some sort of Wooper and Quagsire in there, for cards that actually need certain types of energy as well as defend against the prevalent Electric and Fire weaknesses. Plus, what cards could I use that allow me to attach multiple energy per turn? I can't remember any at the moment. :(

    As an extra measure, how would Pokemon Flute do in this deck?
     
  2. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Too many Energy cards, and the Trainer engine needs major work. However, this could be interesting. Try adding in Rocket's Minefield Gym, so that when they put the Pokemon again after Hurricane, Cacturne's possibly closer to making the KO.
     
  3. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    You're right, I had based this deck's trainer engine off of a tricolor deck where I needed to get the pokemon in play evolved as soon as possible... How would Prof. Elm's Training Method, Town Volunteers, or Prof. Oak's Research do in place of Forest Guardian and some energy cards? I'm also planning on kicking out Bounce energy as well, that was from the tricolor deck.

    Ooh, RMG looks wikked... perhaps I should put some healing cards in there as well, to defend against when I might have to bench some basics later in the game... which shouldn't be very likely, since Dunsparce will be crowding my bench near the beginning of the game.

    I will post a reconfigured deck as soon as I get my thoughts straight.
     
  4. dkates

    dkates New Member

    For suggestions on the Trainer engine, look at my Unlimited deck tips article. Definitely, for this deck, you will want Gust of Wind. Even though you have a very good bench sniper in the deck (Cacturne), you will want to choose who you Hurricane. Any Pokemon that depends on Special Energy or has a 4-Energy attack will be greatly hampered by Hurricane, but not if you can't hit them with it. You will also definitely want Focus Band, which makes Pidgeotto more viable as an attacker. Specifically, if it activates successfully, you can Mirror Move an attack that's probably powerful enough to KO your attacker. Attaching multiple Energy in a turn? I can only think of Blaine and Harvest Bounty Venusaur, neither of which would really help here. Pokemon Flute is not a very useful card, and is very likely to help your opponent (Sneasel or Wigglytuff). Used correctly, you could rack up a couple of cheap KOs, but your opponent would probably get wise to it and counter it very quickly. Remember, above all, that Unlimited is a fast format.
     
  5. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    EDIT: Posted before I noticed your last reply.
    EDIT 2: Thanx for the advice, added recommended cards.

    Deck reconfig #1:

    4 Pidgey (Expedition)
    3 Pidgeotto (Base)
    3 Pidgeot (Jungle)
    4 Cacnea (SS) (Poison Payback)
    3 Cacturne (SS)
    4 Dunsparce (SS)

    3 Lady Outing
    3 Energy Search
    3 Pokemon Breeder Fields
    3 Professor Elm's Training Method
    3 Professor Oak's Research
    4 Focus Band
    4 Gust of Wind
    3 Rocket's Minefield Gym

    3 Fire energy
    3 Lightning energy
    3 Psychic energy
    4 Double Colorless energy

    This should make 60 cards...

    I substituted in some different energy, since some people I've battled against would manage to sneak a peek at the bottom card in my deck, and before I shuffled it I always made sure it was an energy card.

    Didn't think of Focus Band/Mirror Move. Neat. I forgot that Gust of Wind and DCE were staples in my first Pidgeot deck, Stormsurfer, I added them in. I hope I'm not running low on energy now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2003
  6. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    Just a bit of clarification needed on Focus Band/Mirror Move...

    Whatever the final result of an attack is, it can still be Mirror Moved, as long as Focus Band or some other effect on the attacked pokemon prevented a potential KO from that final result.

    Example: Pidgeotto with Focus Band attached is hit for 90 damage, but Focus Band gets heads and saves Pidgeotto from the KO with 10 HP remaining. Pidgeotto then uses Mirror Move and hits the Defending Pokemon for 90 damage because the final result of the attack (before effects on Pidgeotto were brought into account) was 90 damage.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2003
  7. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Looking a lot better, but that Trainer engine needs a lot of work. Before I get into it (and I will), I will briefly recommend that you consider dropping one each of your Basic Energies for 3 Boost Energies or 3 Recycle Energies, or 2 each of the Basic Energies to do both.
    Now, on to your Trainer engine. Here's my suggestion, which uses the same number of total Trainers.

    3 Computer Search
    3 Item Finder
    4 Gust of Wind
    4 Focus Band
    2 Rocket's Minefield Gym
    3 Professor Oak
    3 Copycat
    1 Town Volunteers
    3 Super Energy Removal

    IMO, you are a little high on Pokemon, but I think you should be fine on that count. You could drop as much as 2 Dunsparce, 1 Cacnea, and 1 Pidgey if you were so inclined, most likely for Energy cards (if playtesting shows that you don't have enough) and/or Trainers (probably Gold Berries or Desert Shamans).
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2003
  8. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    Thanx for the advice, I really appreciate your helping me out on this, I may be pretty good at finding card combos but my skills are nil when it comes to building decks in which these combos are put to use...

    Deck Reconfig #2:

    3 Pidgey (Expedition)
    3 Pidgeotto (Base)
    3 Pidgeot (Jungle)
    3 Cacnea (SS) (Poison Payback)
    3 Cacturne (SS)
    3 Dunsparce (SS)

    3 Computer Search
    3 Item Finder
    4 Gust of Wind
    4 Focus Band
    2 Rocket's Minefield Gym
    3 Professor Oak
    3 Copycat
    2 Town Volunteers
    3 Super Energy Removal

    2 Fire energy
    2 Lightning energy
    2 Psychic energy
    3 Recycle energy
    2 Boost Energy
    4 Double Colorless energy

    I see now how Computer Search and Professor Oak would make Town Volunteers more useful, I always wondered how I would be able to use TV if I couldn't tell when something would go in my discard pile for me to be able to draw it out again later. Boost energy's text makes it sound a bit single-use, but I went ahead and added two to the energy count, for just-in-case situations.

    I need to get Apprentice running so I can playtest this against somebody, it's starting to look more trustworthy. :)
     
  9. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    Just on a side note, and i couldnt tell if it was mentioned, cards like Dunsparce (Sandstorm) and Fan Club will go under the Minefield Gym. The card only works when the basic is being played from your hand. Once the Gym is in play, these 2 cards can garuntee no damage on your benched basics. Just remember you ropponents using same cards will get under it too

    Other than the possible addition of Fan Club, this deck looks solid enough......
     
  10. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    I never actually considered that tactic, probably because I tend to take stuff at face value... When thinking about RMG I was afraid of having to bench Basics later in the game just from my hand, I forgot about Dunsparce and how I can get three Basics in with one up in the Active spot (most likely a Cacnea) without having to play them from my hand. Thanx for bringing that up! :D

    Looks like Dunsparce might become a target for my opponent to try and weaken my defense against RMG, good thing the Pidgey line is resistant to Fighting, if wost comes to worst I might want to look into what Basic Psychic pokemon there are than only use Colorless and can attack in 1-2 turns...
     
  11. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Considering that all of this deck's Energy costs so far are Colorless, you could always switch your Basic Energy cards to Psychic when/if you splash in a Psychic Pokemon. Of course, you could also just use Scyther. Splashing in a Tyrogue probably wouldn't hurt, either, as anti-Electric. (Of course, Rocket's Zapdos would have nothing to worry about...) Actually, there's one problem with the Trainer engine I gave you. It has no way to recycle Special Energy. To fix this, put in 2-3 Power Charge (or Energy Charge -- they're effectively the same card), possibly by taking out 1 Dunsparce, 1 Gust, and 1 Focus Band, or just any 2 of those 3 cards.
     
  12. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    You're right, need something that can get non-Basic energy from the discard... Added 2 Power/Energy Charge (depending on which one I can find first).

    Scyther would add to the Fire weakness, so I feel I would be better off with Tyrogue, who can attack the turn he's played. I was originally thinking of Girafarig, but I couldn't find one that was fast enough for my taste.

    Since RZap is a Basic, it would be prey for RMG, plus I could try Gusting it out of the Active position so that Cacturne could start beating up on it. If my opponent is focused on getting RZap in, then I would have to focus on taking RZap out.

    Deck Reconfig #3

    3 Pidgey (Expedition)
    3 Pidgeotto (Base)
    2 Pidgeot (Jungle)
    3 Cacnea (SS) (Poison Payback)
    2 Cacturne (SS)
    3 Dunsparce (SS)
    2 Tyrogue (Neo Disc)

    3 Computer Search
    3 Item Finder
    3 Gust of Wind
    3 Focus Band
    2 Rocket's Minefield Gym
    3 Professor Oak
    3 Copycat
    2 Town Volunteers
    3 Super Energy Removal
    2 Power/Energy Charge

    2 Fire energy
    2 Lightning energy
    2 Psychic energy
    3 Recycle energy
    2 Boost Energy
    4 Double Colorless energy
     
  13. HYPER EEVEE

    HYPER EEVEE Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    Also try Dessert Shaman to get rid of their big guys like scizor then pick them off the basics off with cacturne in no more than 3hits
     
  14. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    Hmm... I see how Desert Shaman could help in possibly keeping certain evolution cards out of my opponent's hand, but since I'm trying to get my Pidgeot and Cacturne in play as soon as possible, I dunno if it would do more help than hurt... need to hurry up and get this playtested first.
     
  15. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    Yet another tactical point I discovered:

    Using Gust of Wind on a target Active and choosing a weaker pokemon to replace it will help me during my opponent's next turn, since he won't be replacing his new Active when I knock out my target with Cacturne's Feint Attack, which will have been moved to the Bench. After discarding the KOed pokemon, he will either have to fight or retreat his new Active in order to try and get a better pokemon to "replace" his KOed pokemon.
     
  16. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    Here's a card from EX Dragon that I could possibly use in defense of Cacturne's Fire weakness, although it would add to the Lightning weakness:

     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2003
  17. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    I just playtested this against something that had Erika's Jigg, Scyther, Gligar, Pichu, and Cleffa, and it mopped the floor with my deck. But then again that may be because I lost total concentration. I tend to do that...
     
  18. SwampertEX

    SwampertEX New Member

    Add Wobbufett line, Rare Candy, and a couple more Boost energies and you'll be set.
     
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