Poison Powers

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by PokePop, Dec 18, 2003.

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  1. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    OK, rip me to shreads. Fix me up.

    Here you go:

    Pokemon
    3 Oddish (Exp)
    3 Gloom (Exp)
    3 Vileplume (Exp)

    4 Cacnea (SS)(Poison Payback)
    2 Cacturne (SS)

    2 Omanyte (SS)
    2 Omastar (SS)

    Trainers
    3 Mysterious Fossil
    1 Prof Oak's Research
    3 Copycat
    1 Dual Ball
    1 Oracle
    2 Pokemon Fan Club
    3 Switch
    3 Prof Elm's Training
    3 Wally's Training
    3 Rare Candy
    3 Full Heal

    Energy
    4 Water
    5 Grass
    3 Boost
    2 Multi
    1 Cyclone

    Poison, lots of Poison.
    I've split my weakness (Fire and Psychic and Lightning)
    Omastar is there to wipe out stage two's that have been Rare Candy'd.

    Note, some of my card selection is due to what I have in the current Modified format. I can get more cards by Trading, but haven't had the chance lately due to my recent move.

    OK, sic' me!
     
  2. Dendrobatida

    Dendrobatida New Member

    I think your pokemon kind of work at cross purposes, but I'm struggling a bit with how to describe it succinctly, so forgive me a bit of a ramble here.

    The easiest one to explain is the omastar+poison combo. Sure, omastar nails folks that use rare candy, but it also removes status effects....in order to do that, it has to be active and attacking, which nullifies the effectiveness of having cacnea/cacturne's pokemon powers. Omastar can be quick and nasty, but that's only if it's focused, and the focus here clearly isn't on it....

    The other problem you have is that, in this case, too much poison can be a bad thing. You have the cacti's power. That's good. You have vileplume's power. That's good, too. However, once one makes good with the power, the powers of the others become irrelevant. For example, you have your cacturne active. Opponent attacks it, is poisoned, does, say 40 damage to cacturne. Now, all of a sudden, your opponent has rendered those two benched vileplume effectively useless. Sure, opponent is poisoned, but you could've gained that effect and saved 9 card slots anyway for a far more focused deck. Or, the alternative: it's your turn, you poison with vileplume. Now they have no hesitation about smacking around your cacturne, because hey...they're already poisoned. In short, poison can be effectively used throughout the game much more efficiently.

    I won't worry about fixing your trainer line, because you explained the card-garnering situation.

    You mention splitting your weakness like it is a strong point...I'd have to disagree. The emphasis in pokemon tends toward (and rightly so) covering your weakness: for example, in a grass deck, play a few water pokemon to cover the weakness of the grass (anti-fire). You've actually got that here with omastar and the grass guys, but I thought it was interesting that you chose to point out the plethora of attack options you afford your opponent as a strength...it's like saying "Hey, instead of just giving you bread, wicked enemy, I decided to serve a 3-course meal!" Or, if you prefer, widening the target range to enable ampharos -ex, gardevoir, and blaziken to work at equal effectiveness against you.

    Also, what to do about Zangoose?

    You could opt to focus on one of the three lines, with something else that better complements it. For example, Vileplume (EXP) + Octillery (AQ)= poison+no retreat+ 40/turn+smokescreen.

    Cheers,
     
  3. Flippin treeko

    Flippin treeko New Member

    MF? forget the focus on conditions, the only one I'd even think of building round would be cradilly, for the lure poison, there's just far to much switching and scooping available to make poison-sleep-confuse-paralyze even 50% effective might I suggest dropping either plume or cac and dropping in venusaur, oine energy per turn with no trans just doesn't cut it it's not fast enough you could try roselia, but difficult to get the three card drop with so much going on in your energies and with only 3 that averages at 1 every 4 oaks reseasrch discounting you being unlucky. You've not got Town volunteers, so you need 4 basics in a 4-3-3 line IMO. 1 oracle???? you may never see it in 4 games! use the slot for something else, maybe an extra omanyte, you can use it as bait and pull out the other two to the bench leaving fossils as blocks. Also go 2-2 copy and oak, playing 2-3 delcatty could easily leave you decked later on.
    If your determined to use vileplume try tag teaming volbeat (free retreat ) and Illumise (resistant to D and F) both dealing 40 for G C when the opponent's effected by a spec con.

    Not so much a fix as a question on intent =P
     
  4. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Thanks.
    Good points. Anyone else?
     
  5. nikePK

    nikePK New Member

    When you're getting poisoned every turn, I think the you'll run out of switches. Most people only play around 2 switches, unless the deck is based around switching out like Blaze/Ray is.

    Cacturne isn't exactly great. Its a solid card, but its not game-breaking. You don't WIN games with it.

    I like Vileplume though, its like a Strength Charm on heads, which is awesome. Also, you can deal some nasty damage with it in a bind. The problem with him though, is that you can't consistantly attack with it, and sometimes you're only going to do 30 damage. This isn't very good for a stage 2 in this format, you know?

    The Volbeat/Illumise thing looks awesome on paper, but in play... I dunno. I tried this way back when SS came out, but we didn't have Wurmple back then... So, maybe focus on them with DR Wurmple to just bust the game open on t1.

    If you play this you NEED a turn 3 Vileplume to start the poisoning. Volbeat can poison and that's an awesome start... but on tails its just sleep. Not so hot. Also, starting with Illumise just plain sucks. Confusion is too easy to get out of and it just doesn't help all that much. a t1 Volbeat or Wurmple would be your ideal start I think. That sounds really nice actually lol.

    So drop the Cacturne line. That's 6 slots open. In their place, run maybe 3 Volbeat, 1 Illumise, and try and fit in...... ehhhhh.... 3 wurmple i guess. 4 would be nice, but room is tight.

    As Dendro pointed out, Omastar really doesn't work right in this deck... the pull down counteracts poison, etc. He also pointed out Octillery. Wow, that is a pretty cool idea. I second the thought. Either that or Wailord for the quick 50.

    I dunno why you have 3 Rare Candy in there when you're running a 3/3/3 line, so I think we can drop them. They help, but I think there are better things that work, like the Wurmple we added.

    You can drop the Wally's Trainings... its not a very good card at all. And now that we've cut off an evo line, the 3 Training Method should work fine.

    That's about all I have to say I guess. Its a pretty cool idea, and I think I just built on the flaws that dendro pointed out. Good luck with it 'Pop
     
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