Public Infromation: For Informational Purposes Only?

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by yoshi1001, Aug 9, 2008.

  1. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    This topic is in reference to the following:

    I'm told the game is stupid. If that's the case, then it is inconsitently stupid. The way things stand now, the game knows whether a Pokemon can evolve but not what the basic deck construction rules are. With public information, there was a clear line-if you could prove that a move would not change the state of the game, you could stop it. No potioning undamaged Pokemon, No using search cards on an empty deck. All of that is called into question by this ruling.

    So we are left with a question: How "stupid" is the game? On what basis can we disallow an action?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Gowk

    Gowk New Member

    Are you complaining that Public knowledge is well being limited or is it something else?
     
  3. Typhlosion King

    Typhlosion King New Member

    Yoshi's saying that you shouldn't be able to "play dumb" and search the deck even when both players know you have no evees in the deck, and I agree.
     
  4. Gowk

    Gowk New Member

    Ok then in that case i would agree, and i believe that would qualify as stalling.
     
  5. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    You can search, it just wouldn't be there. It says to search AND place Eevee on the bench. You might not find one there, but you do have to search. With Potion, all you do is get rid of 2 counters.

    Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

    It isn't stalling. I like to search my deck and fail early on, to see how many Claydols are prized, etc. I find it quite advantageous.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2008
  6. ZAKtheGeek

    ZAKtheGeek New Member

    So what you're saying is that we should have to use just-put-into-play counters to keep the game consistent. Then everyone would be happy.
     
  7. Ninjask_161

    Ninjask_161 New Member

    i believe in chess, they have those dual clock things that time each player individually. Why don't they do the same in pokemon to prevent stalling?
     
  8. Gowk

    Gowk New Member

    I completely disagree. That would make some, more strategic or slower players, be rushed in possibly making a vital descion witch could cost them the Game. The judges are aloud to call stalling on some one if it gets to long, but rushing the player would be horrible.
     
  9. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    Me being on of those players that likes to play a little slower, not rush and carefully think out my moves, I agree 100% with you on that.

    I find it funny that no one noticed that you can't call for family with Evee, if all 4 of your Evee are in the discard. :lol:
     
  10. Gowk

    Gowk New Member

    Had to laugh at the last part of that!
     
  11. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    The point of this thread is not about stalling, but about the uncertainty this ruling provokes in the game.
     
  12. Gowk

    Gowk New Member

    But how does it change the game at all?
     
  13. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    That's the thing-I can't say. This ruling would seem to potentially overturn a great deal of rulings involving the prevention of attacks, trainer card usage, etc. via use of in-game information.
     
  14. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Give us some examples of rulings it would "overturn".
     
  15. Skitty

    Skitty New Member

    I agree with yoshi1001. You can't play TSD when you have no Pokemon in your discard pile because it's obvius it won't do anything. You can't use Rare Candy if your only Pokemon in play is a Darkrai because it's obvius it won't do anything. What's the differance between those two situations and this? None of them can have an effect in these situations. But in the end it's PUI's desision what the ruling will be.
     
  16. Dennis Hawk

    Dennis Hawk New Member

    Actually, we had a tournament once with those dual clocks. However, the idea doesn't work that well as:

    1. You would have to have tens of chess clocks as the equipment just to organize a small tournament.
    2. Stalling is still possible, during your opponent's turn, if you have to make some desicions ("Hmm, which one should I warp point in?")
    3. What would happen if the time ended for one player? Game loss? In the endgame, turns are very rapid with chess clocks and slower players wouldn't have a change in that.

    Other than that, it was fun.
     
  17. DreamChaser AJ

    DreamChaser AJ New Member

    So if you can't find eevees, you should be allowed to just search, knowing you can't get anything (The game also knows you can't get anything.)

    Sooo. if you can't search when the pokemon doesn't evolve, and you can't search when you bench is full, why can you search if all eevees are present as public knowledge? I disagree with the ruling, but will enforce it until something changes.
     
  18. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    There are no official rulings this would overturn for certain (amazingly enough, since the essence of this question remained unanswered for over a year). However, there are a large number of similar situations, generally related to the 4-card limit for cards other than basic energy. The real problem with this ruling is the large amount of ambiguity it generates with regards to other situations where public information would dictate that certain actions would be disallowed on the basis of not performing any useful purpose. As such, many players may be unsure as to whether such actions are allowed. Additionally, it suggests a large degree of arbitrality in the rulemaking process, which is not good for the perceived legitimacy of the game.
     
  19. Muscovy Level X

    Muscovy Level X New Member

    Actualy, things like that can have points. Like Eevee can remove Holon Circle, for example.
    Or you can play Trainer cards with no effect to make your hand smaller...
     
  20. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    The former is (presumably) legal becaus Holon Circle prevents all effects of the attack, therefore attacking to get rid of it must be considered legitimate.

    The latter is not legal, because nothing would happen as a result of those cards being played (or wait...:wink:).
     

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