Restructure Revisited--Is Empoleon the best card to pair with Palkia Lv. X

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by jconti2818, Mar 19, 2008.

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  1. jconti2818

    jconti2818 Member

    The strategy of this deck is simple--Palkia is there for three purposes--mostly Restrucutre to bring out your heavy hitter, Hydro Reflect to power up your heavy hitter and rarely, Transback in early game to de-evolve your opponent. Mantine is there for the almost free retreat (all except Palkia Lv. X) plus if you restructure Mantine, you are able to use Giant Wave two or more turns in a row. Lapras is the perfect starter especially for a water deck and Suicune is a poor man's TSD without the coin flips.

    Now the two dilemmas: Is Empoleon the best Pokemon to use as my heavy hitter? Although Empoleon snipes beautifly, the most Prinplup can do is 40 and sometimes it's slow to get it set up even with 4 Rare Candies. One of the top seniors in our league, Sam G., used a similar deck in Cities but he built it around Swampert but I couldn't see that offering much an advantage except for Swampert's Pokepower and I am not enamored of needing 4 energies for an attack of 80. Any ideas from the group on which Pokemon would be best to pair with Palkia?

    Second, dilemma: despite what I hoped would be a fast trainer engine, this deck inexplicably often stalls. I was playing a Mismagius/Dusknoir dek and hung in there but went about 6 consecutive turns without being able to get an energy. I played a trainer deck and again couldn't get my cards out fast enough. Suggestions please on how to make this deck faster and more consistent (when it works, it functions beautifully but when it doesn't, it seems like it can really stall for long periods of a game and I don't know why). Help please!

    John

    Restructure Revisited

    Pokemon 22

    2 Mantyke (DP)
    2 Mantine (MT)
    2 Suicune (SW)
    2 Palkia (GE)
    2 Palkia Lv.X (GE)
    3 Lapras (GE)
    3 Piplup (DP)
    2 Prinplup (DP)
    3 Empoleon (DP)
    1 Empoleon Lv. X (DP)

    Trainers 22

    4 Celio’s Network
    1 Night Maintenance
    3 Roseanne’s Research
    1 Premier Ball
    2 Strength Charm
    4 Rare Candies
    2 Professor Oak’s Visit
    1 Windstorm
    1 Glacia’s Stadium
    1 Amulet Coin
    2 Switch

    Energy 16

    12 Water
    2 Scramble
    2 DRE
     
  2. Pokeric

    Pokeric New Member

    -1 Suicune

    +1 Lapras

    Because Suicune starts suck =/
     
  3. AnimeDDR110

    AnimeDDR110 New Member

    Hey John, this is Mike from league.
    I liked the way you played this deck last saturday, but IMO Swampert would work better instead of Empoleon. You maybe can play a 1-1-1 Empoleon LV.X line in there, but a 2-1-2 Swampert line would be good to transfer energies, and the synergy that it plays with Palkia LV.X between Wash Out and Hydro Reflect really balances out your energies, for the better. Also, as Pokeric said one Suicune is good enough.
    The Energies and trainers in this set look perfect to use.
    Hope this opinion helps you.
     
  4. Flygon999

    Flygon999 New Member

    - 1 suicune
    + 1 Lapras

    -2 switch
    +2 Warp Point
     
  5. jconti2818

    jconti2818 Member

    Thanks to everyone already. As always, I really appreciate the advice. I think I will make the Lapras Suicune switch. Mike (?M5), my other gripe about Swampert is its inability to swipe. I disagree about Switch and Warp Point. I like Switch because if I use Restructure and my opponent puts an underpowered Pokemon into my active slot then I can use switch to put back into play whatever Pokemon I feel would make my best active (Warp Point seems a little redundant given Restructure).

    Keep the good suggestions coming.

    Thanks.
    John
     
  6. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    Swampert was my first thought when reading your post. Empoleon is nice but Swampert seems to fit the energy moving heavy hitting you seem to be aiming at.

    You are "stalling" because you don't have enough draw and hand refresh cards.

    -9 Entire Empoleon Line

    -1 Celios's
    -1 Roseanne's
    -1 Strength Charm
    -1 Rare Candy

    +3/2/3 Swampert Line

    +1 Prof. Oak's Visit
    +2 Prof. Rowan -or- Copycat
    +2 Steven's Advice
     
  7. Darkwalker

    Darkwalker New Member

    I'm messing around with Swampert, Palkia X, and Mantine a little bit as well. Some things to consider is adding a couple Fighting so you can use Marstomp's sniping attack. Adding a couple Memory Berry can allow Swampert to use the sniping attack as well. I would also suggest a small line of Octillery (1-1 or 2-2). Octillery allows you to snipe if you want, but it can also possibly cripple an opponent by discarding special energy to further disrupt them.
     
  8. jconti2818

    jconti2818 Member

    I appreciate "Vanderbuilt Grad's" suggestions for the trainer engine, but with Lapras I sometimes have 7 cards in my hand so would I just do better adding 2 more POV instead of Steven's advice. I would be curious for people who have experience with water decks, whether other people prefer Empoleon/Prinplup to Swampert/Marshtomp?

    Suggestions and comments please.
     
  9. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    The Steven's are there for a few reasons ... first you will not always start with Lapras ... second they combo really well with Prof. Rowan if you use both ... and finally because they are really nice when trying to recover from things like Absol's Baleful Wind. They are more situational than the other draw trainers but they can really get you going again if you are trying to come from behind, much more so than Oak's Visit will. If you really don't want to use them then just max out the POV & add a Scott IMHO.
     
  10. jconti2818

    jconti2818 Member

    Dera Vanderbilt Grad,

    I'm still learning--I really like those suggestions and will change my trainer engine accordingly and let you know how my deck performs.

    The bigger dilemma, however: Empoleon or Swampert?
     
  11. robinsjg

    robinsjg New Member

    I played a deck like this earlier but I used Swampert, not Empoleon. I think that Swampert has more options which makes it the better choice. There are currently 3 Marshtomp and 3 Mudkip you can choose from. I used the submerge Mudkip from CG which has a body that prevents it from being sniped and there is a Marshtomp from the same set that has Mud Splash which does 30 to active and 30 to a benched. You can also use the Fighting type Swampert which allows you to draw another card every turn. Empoleon is a good pokemon, it is fast to set up and spreads damage very well, but I don't think that it is as good a partner for Palkia as Swampert is. With Empoleon when you use Restructure if your opponent chooses a pokemon that has no energies attached, which will be most likely, you need to have a switch or an evolved Mantine in play to recover. However if you used Swampert it would not matter which pokemon they brought up you just move the needed energy to it. Moreover I think that Swampert is more versatile, I put in a Mew SW to surprise the GG match-up because Swampert can move multi-energy so I did not need the psychic energy in my deck to make it work. Which ever you decide to play, good luck and have fun.
     
  12. garchompx12

    garchompx12 New Member

    yo john,
    IMHO, adding in all of these lines, as well as lapras for set up, interferes with empoleon because:

    1. empoleon is a great card because it has no powers/bodies thus letting you abuse cessation.
    2. empoleon has always been known for speed, and adding all of this take that potential away.

    right now though, empoleon has lost alot of its playability because of stronger stage 2s and stage 1s, such as gardy, gallade, mag, banette etc. empoleon was so good last season though because of ape running rampant. also, since only Dp1 was released, empoleon was considered amazing, but then the other DP sets came out, and empoleon fails in comparison
     
  13. jconti2818

    jconti2818 Member

    Dear Alex,

    Believe it or not, I actually appreciate your advice, so once again I pose my original question--if you were to run this particular deck, would you do so with Swampert or Empoleon?

    I welcome the answer to thta question from the other forum members as well.

    Thanks.

    John
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2008
  14. B_B_C

    B_B_C New Member

    I would help more but I'm sooooo out of it right now.
     
  15. jconti2818

    jconti2818 Member

    So Brian, judging by your excellent deck list, I'm assuming you prefer Empoleon to Swampert?

    John

    Anyone else, want to weigh in on the debate--best water Pokemon line right now to use as your main attacker- Swampert or Empoleon?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2008
  16. SuicidalPikachu

    SuicidalPikachu New Member

    Pokemon 20

    2 Mantyke (DP)
    2 Mantine (MT)

    1 Suicune (SW)

    2 Palkia (GE)
    2 Palkia Lv.X (GE)

    3 Lapras (GE)

    3 Mudkip
    2 Marshtomp
    3 Swampert

    Trainers 22

    4 Celio’s Network
    1 Night Maintenance
    3 Roseanne’s Research
    1 Premier Ball
    3 Rare Candies
    3 Professor Oak’s Visit
    2 Windstorm
    2 Switch
    2 Steven's
    2 Copycat
    1 Warp Point

    Energy 16

    10 Water
    3 Fighting
    2 Scramble
    1 Holon WP

    this would be what i'd run. IMO, you dont need DRE because w/ Swampert's power you are moving stuff around. Marshtomp's second attack is AMAZING, and being a 90hp S1 that evolves makes it better, i say abuse it. Holon WP rocks because it stops Bring down, and Sonic Blade. im not sure if this could beat GG, but it's an interesting deck and should cause Mag some trouble.
     
  17. The Machampion

    The Machampion New Member

    Beleive Me, Swampert is so sick, the Switch is awesome and of coarse, 80 dmage and discarding one card is an awesome lated hitter, i just dont think for palkia 60 for 3 enegies is great, becuase its awfully slow aswell, but yes, you can annoy them, but it only wokrs with a fully equiped bench
     
  18. garchompx12

    garchompx12 New Member

    empoleon because it gives you more options
     
  19. B_B_C

    B_B_C New Member

    Empoleon becuase it....... Well it's just better.
     
  20. dschorre

    dschorre New Member

    Empoleon - penguins are much better looking and have a greater since of nobility than a mud fish. lol
     
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