Rules: Time called, finishing final turn

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by NoPoke, Oct 6, 2003.

  1. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    copied from the ASK THE MTS forum... http://www.pokegym.net/showthread.php?p=17094#post17094

    Its a) ie a DRAW


    ref 'Your turn is now over' in the rule book. After each players turn is over poison etc are figured.

    I'm not aware that this is any different now under Nintendo to what it was with WotC at the helm.
     
  2. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    So, in other words, the game ends AFTER the active player's turn ends but BEFORE the between-turn effects happen... which would add yet another time phase to the game, the time between between turns?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2003
  3. Big Daddy Snorlax

    Big Daddy Snorlax Administrator

    Here is the answer I posted in the Ask the Master Trainers forum:

    Although Jimmer has not "officially" answered this one, in cases where there are official rulings or the rule book covers the answer to a question, we are currently posting those answers, citing the proper reference. This allows Jimmer to spend his limited time on things that have not already been covered. Whenever you want to discuss one of the questions, or one of the rulings, feel free to copy the question and/or answer into this forum as NoPoke did. Community discussion on rulings is a very good thing. Occasionally they do get reversed or modified as a result of these type of discussions. It's not an exact science! ;)

    BDS
     
  4. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    I'd actually like to take this one to Jimmer.
    While it does happen after the player's turn, it could be seen as part of "finishing" that turn.
     
  5. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Well Jimmer is credited with writing the revised rule book. And item 4 on page 12 is very clear...

    4 Your turn is OVER now.

    this is printed all on its own in the rule book presumably for emphasis.

    So as a judge I'd definately rule that it is a draw as things stand. I'd be surprised if it gets changed. But then what would life be without surprises?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2003
  6. White Gryphon

    White Gryphon New Member

    Hmm... The way I see it, since there could be a time between turns when no between-turn effects take place, then the game would end without any of them happening anyway. For there to even be a space between turns, there would have to be a turn following.

    I admit, it doesn't take much to make my head hurt... but I would like to hear what Jimmer has to say about it. :D
     
  7. Big Daddy Snorlax

    Big Daddy Snorlax Administrator

    Well, I must admit I thought I was pretty safe answering this one. However, since we have some differing opinions, or at lease some people with questions, I will pull my answer from the ATMT forum. The only answers that we should post in there are ones that are crystal clear.

    Now, having said that, ARE YOU PEOPLE NUTS??!!!?!!?? :eek: This has been a game mechanic for as long as I can remember. Things that happen between turns do not happen at the end of a game when time is called and someone finishes their turn. Turn over - game over. I will be amazed if Jimmer rules differently.

    BDS :lol:
     
  8. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    You know, now that I think about it, you're right.
    Still, worth getting the new crew's take on it.
     
  9. Sensei

    Sensei Team Compendium Emeritus Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod

    Well,end of turn means end of turn.It doesn`t mean "Oh wait,lets go to between turns and do stuff now".End of turn is end of turn and the game ends.

    That`s my take on it.:)

    `Sensei
     
  10. Sensei

    Sensei Team Compendium Emeritus Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod

    Here`s the ruling from the Rules meeting.The players turn ends when that player does everything allowed during his/her turn.Between(After) turn effects are not resolved.

    Q. In the new Tournament rules, it is said that when time is called,
    the active player is allowed to finish his or her turn. After this, do
    players still check for Burn, Poison, and other relevant Special
    Conditions, or is the game over before the Special Conditions can take place?
    A. When time is called, the end of the game would trigger at the end of
    the current player's turn after resolving all of the effects that occur
    during that player's turn, but before addressing any actions that
    happen between turns such as Special Conditions. (Oct 16, 2003 PUI Rules
    Team)


    `Sensei
     
  11. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Okay...

    So time is called, its a single game tournament. The active player succeeds in taking their last prize. Is this a full win or an incomplete win?
     
  12. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    I don't understand. Why would it not be a complete win if they took their last prize? Taking the prize is still part of the turn, per the rule book.
     
  13. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    Well, under WotC, as I understood from what I was told, if a player takes their last prize (or knocks out their opponent's last pokemon), they still get a full win.
     
  14. SD PokeMom

    SD PokeMom Mod Supervisor Staff Member

    Except we're _not talking_ about the game as run under WotC, are we?...:rolleyes:

    'mom
     
  15. Big Daddy Snorlax

    Big Daddy Snorlax Administrator

    It doesn't sound like anyone has picked up on the fact that we may not have 2 points awarded for a timed win any longer. I find nothing in the Floor Rules about 2 point wins, and in the Prerelease instructions you get "3 points for each win, 1 point for each draw, and 0 points for a loss." There is no reference about 2 point wins at all. The tournament software does not award 2 points either. In fact, I've seen nothing written anywhere about 2 point wins. Definitly something to check out with Jimmer.

    BDS
     
  16. Baboon

    Baboon New Member

    Taking a Prize should be part of your turn. I would see no reason to only give an incomplete win, if even a thing should exist.

    Even after we get a final answer, the odds are someone at a tournament somewhere will end up arguing it... -_-
     
  17. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Sorry but we are completely ignorant of any of the tournament software or pre-release tournament instructions provided by PUI in the USA.

    Another thing that I hadn't picked up on would be that Match play (ie best out of three) also no longer exists ???

    Breaks out some old chess software for pairings use...
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2003
  18. Big Daddy Snorlax

    Big Daddy Snorlax Administrator

    I'll e-mail you the Prerelease tournament instructions FYI. As to the match play, it has not been eliminated. Here is the applicable reference from the Floor Rules:

    BDS
     
  19. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    I'd hate to be the TO having to run a match play tournament without software that supports a 2-0 win being superior to a 2-1 win.

    [edit: who needs computers anyway.. I'll just have to go back to the old pencil and paper method for match-play

    Oh and thanks for the paperwork BDS.
    maybe the pre-releases will be done the good old fashioned way too ]
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2003

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