Sneasel, Interrupted

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by RobertoTheSnowager, Aug 26, 2003.

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  1. RobertoTheSnowager

    RobertoTheSnowager New Member

    Has anyone taken the chance to really take a look at sneasel? On the original Genesis card, it says "Flip a coin for each of your pokemon in play, including sneasel" So, how come everyone I play, used it for every pokemon in play? In a sense, it is just like Wigglytuff, the only difference is the energy cost, what do you all think?
     
  2. Baboon

    Baboon New Member

    Basically, it's the same concept, except for Sneasel being Darkness and using Darkness Energy. Both Sneasel and Wigglytuff only can do more damage for your Benched Pokemon. Neither involve the opponent's Pokemon. That's why people commonly play both Sneasel and Wiggly together in decks. ;) Just fill up your Bench and there you go. :)
     
  3. Just like Wigglytuff? I think not.

    No retreat cost, no weakness, Basic, lower attack cost, MUCH greater opportunity for damage...

    Faster and Stronger in every way. Hm. ;)
     
  4. YoungJohn06

    YoungJohn06 New Member

    Sneasel is better in every way I think... normally. Wiggy has it's advantages at times. Sneasel is a very, very powerful Pokemon... the most Wiggy can do is... 150 I think lol. (thinking totally stupid here)

    Only way to do that would be..

    Wiggy... Full bench
    4 darks on wiggy
    4 pluspower
    1 strenght charm.

    Sneasel is just all around better, he's easier to get out and faster to charge up, while the energy cost is a bit... more difficult to protect, because of them being dark... it's worth it. He can be protected many ways, and is a beast.
     
  5. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Getting back on topic, are you saying he was flipping for your Pokemon, too? If so, he was cheating -- perhaps unintentionally, but he was cheating.
     
  6. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    If its unintentional, call it "misplaying" rather than cheating.
    Per www.dictionary.com cheating is To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.

    Cheating will get you kicked out of a tournament. Misplay will have a much milder penalty.
     
  7. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    This is a common mistake I see involving Sneasel. I think it is becuase of how over-hyped the card is. It is a very powerful card, and should have had a Fighting weakness, imho. With a Fighting Weakness, I think we would have had an ever-so-slightly more balanced environment (of course, there are a few cards that would still upset it, and one or two other cards that need to be adjusted... ;) ). My point is, people expect Sneasel to be even more poerful than it is. WHen compared to the Wigglytuff in question, it is better, but only by a margin, as anybody without extreme luck, loaded dice, two-headed coins, etc. will tell you: tails aren't fun. While Wiggly isn;t much better, that 60HP stinks against most decks. It's always fun to see that Sneasel player fill his bench, slap a Darkness Energy on Sneasel, then get his SNeasel eaten by an Erika's Jigglypuff with two Plus Powers.

    So I think that is why people think Sneasel must do more... that or people misread it by like one word. ;)
     
  8. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Correction accepted, Pop. While Otaku is correct that there are many counters to Sneasel, the problem is that a deck in Unlimited pretty much doesn't stand a chance unless it has Sneasel, a consistent counter to Sneasel, or both. Sneasel is insansely powerful on the attack, but its lack of defensive abilities (like higher HP) are its only weakness. It got banned from Modified because that simply isn't enough to balance out a card with so much attack ability.
     
  9. RobertoTheSnowager

    RobertoTheSnowager New Member

    Yes, i agree, but in that case... Why isnt Wiggly banned? it can definately trash Sneasel worse, i mean, Sneasel has to flip to do damage, Wiggly is an Automatic 60 if you have your bench full, Its just a case of wether or not the person has a Sneasel, with 4 darks in his/her starting hand, which ive seen too many dark decks do... Thats the only thing that makes him "Invincible" is the card drawing, and slight of hand, lol
     
  10. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Wiggly is as much banned in Modified as Sneasel.
    It's just that, since the entire Jungle set is out of the rotation, there was no need to single Wiggly out.

    Neither are banned in Unlimited.
     
  11. RobertoTheSnowager

    RobertoTheSnowager New Member


    Thanks for clearin that up! lol, never thought of it that way :lol:
     
  12. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    You should count how many counters there are for Sneasel... there are so many, it's quite funny. The obvious is another near deck staple: Super Energy Removal. Sneasel decks will usually ahve defensive measure or ways to bring them back, but said "counter-counters" are often risky in and of themselves and/or flippy. Barring that, andy Trainer denial really hurts Sneasel, and much more than most such basics: without Trainers, its just a 60HP scaredy cat. I run Turbo Snorlax often, and its fun to play a Sneael oriented deck. WIth the exception of some weird retro-haymakers (running Base Set 'chan and Neo Genesis Sneasel), its quite funny to see your opponent struggling to draw the energy and basics they need when most such decks are nearly 2/3 Trainers. Bascially, Sneasel is one of those cards where the ball was dropped, and is a simple Fighting weakness errata (not like that would happen, as the card is not unplayable, rather the opposite) from being balanced. Tyrogue is already one of my easiest ways of countering Sneasel...
     
  13. Omega Ant

    Omega Ant New Member

    I never had or seen anyone play with n1 sneasel so that's why I propbly think :
    He's not stronger than wiggly .

    Lets compare the 2 :

    wiggly is a stage 2 , sneasel is base
    But , wiggly requires 3 colorless energies which means any energy cards will do (except maybe retro energy ) while sneasle requires 2 dark energies ( and considering the fact you can only put 4 in a deck (add 4 more for rainbow) that's a low chance )- d.energies will be a target for ER and SER .- therfore getting wiggly ready should be about the same time as getting sneasel ready (and maybe even less time 'cos there are trainers that find pokemon but no trainers that find special energies (except perhaps oracle ) )

    both are from a type that usually doesn't have pokemon that are strong or weak against it .

    wiggly retreats for 2 which is bad while sneasel retreats for free which should help you save him 'till he's ready . but wiggly has 20 more Hp and the fact that he can evolve can allow the player to evolve the jiggly of his choice ) .

    wiggly is weak against fighting :-( .

    both have resistance against psychic .

    wiggly does a sure 10 damage for each pokemon you got in play with no connection to luck while snesel does 20 (dark energies) plus 20 for each heads flipped for each of your pokemon which means it depends on luck which means that there are 50% that you'll do 60 damage (don't forget plus 20 for dark.e ) but you may do more or less so you depend on luck .

    well that's all .
     
  14. So you've never played a good Sneasel/Slowking deck. Hm. :rolleyes:


    And Wigglytuff is a stage 1. Not a stage 2.

    Wiggly requires MORE energy, Wiggly can NOT be played first turn, Wiggly has a retreat, Wiggly requires more FOCUS on to keep safe, up, and running, Wiggly (Without the aid of trainers) has a MAX of 60 (Unless you'd care to Poison him with Darkness), the fact that he does an assured 60 hardly makes up for these things.

    Y'know why people like Sneasel? Although it requires 6 coin flips, mathematically, you'll most likely get 60 (3/6 heads), AND the ability to use Darkness energy, and a max damage total of 160 (That's excluding trainers or other powers). Heck, TWO heads out of Six will result in 60 damage with two Darkness Energy. NO retreat, NO weakness, LOW energy cost, EXTREMELY quick (basic), and considering how WELL it goes with Slowking. Slowking protects your Special Energy, Sneasel tears through everything your opponent throws out. Focus Band keeps it alive, your opponent doesn't have the CHANCE to use large enough Evos that stand a chance of living long. You can slap these things down, and have them ready to do an easy 80+ damage in just two turns.

    Remember, Wigglytuff will MAX out at 60, Sneasel will AVERAGE 60.

    Most people LIKE the idea of being able to slap down a basic that's strong enough to stop ANYTHING in just two turns, and easy to keep safe due to no weakness and no retreat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2003
  15. RobertoTheSnowager

    RobertoTheSnowager New Member


    Yes, but there is a limit as to what you can do with sneasel, you need dark energy, and if you cant produce them, or your opponent is heavy on the e/r's and super e/r's then your in trouble. But like i said earlier, i havent met a dark deck yet, that hasnt had 4 dark energy and a few dark pokemon in their starting hand...
     
  16. That's just it though, the popular strategy is Sneasel/SLOWKING. Those ERs and SERs won't be doing a thing. And if you even THINK of dropping a Grimer, they'll gust it up and kill it. And despite that nasty baby power, a Pichu won't be fairing well for long either. (Not to mention Sneasel/Slowking sometimes run Pokemon Center just for such an emergency).
     
  17. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    :D (*needs an evil emoticon-ah well)

    I love Sneasel/Slowking-it is pretty weak against Turbo Snorlax, my favorite "lost cause" deck. They have to have a perfect set up befor my second turn, or else Dark Vileplume comes out and we have a 90HP blubber ball versus a 60HP weasel. Without its Trainer Support, Sneasel is pretty weak. It has this devastating attack... but has to succcessfully hide on the bench long enough for you to draw the energy you need (without normal Trainer Support). As I said, when you can sabotage it's support, Sneasel becomes weak. Sneasel/Slowking, as such, is no longer its best deck. Things like TurboWigglySneasel, Snichu, and jsut throwing the thing into any deck that can fit it are usually better. Slowking is great for it's anti-Trainer content, but not for its attack. In the curent Unlimited, that's a hazard.

    Perhaps I should clarify my stance: Sneasel is the seoncd best basic Pokemon I know of: over-shadowed only by Cleffa, imho, as Cleffa can help so many things set up as fast as Sneasel.

    One last thing. Wiggly goes off turn two, just like Sneasel. It also is easier to power-up: Recyle, Double Colorless, and Boost Energies all work on it. Wiggly's downfall is that it's Fighting Weak, and as a Colorless Pokemon, it can be hurt by Sprout Tower and Unown N.
     
  18. Turbo Blastoise

    Turbo Blastoise New Member

    I've seen some Sneasel/Slowking/Chaos Gym based decks back a couple of years(before they were both banned) that seemed to work really well. Not sure how it would do now in Unlimited with the E-cards and Adv. Would be a nice deck to try once OP gets going with Nintendo. (if they get a Unlimited format going!)
     
  19. RobertoTheSnowager

    RobertoTheSnowager New Member

    So dont you think that Nintendo is stirring things up a little by "reinstating" Sneasel? I wonder if they will re-hire Slowking, maybe as Slowking EX or something. Chaos Gym is bound to come back, so maybe Nintendo is just gearing up for another snooch-fest, or maybe they just want the game to be FUN again, lol
     
  20. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    Not really. They took almsot everything that made Neo Genesis Sneasel so potent, and removed or toned it down. Most obvious, KOing it nets two prizes. Second, Fighting Weakness. Even in a Nintendo only format, there are splashable basics and evos for fighting. It still keeps its Psychic Resitance, which is good. Its has a retreat of one now: better than most, but sill worse than it had. HP is better. First attack is much worse. Second attack, Beat-up, is now minimum turn 3.
     

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