SP Hate

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by Porii Sames, Mar 25, 2011.

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  1. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames Active Member

    Seriously. I have seen this EVERYWHERE on here...

    WHY does it seem like EVERYONE hates SP? I think it's one of the most unique and interesting decks to play in the format, especially in close, teched, SP dittos.

    I play Luxchomp, Dialgachomp, Sablock, Chenlock, Dialgachomp, and LuxBox and believe they are some of the most fun and most challenging decks to play.

    SP has been dominating for a long time, yeah. But I mean, it's still beatable...I'm sorry your precious rogue deck can't contend in a format vs SP. Heck, if Vileplume didn't exist, I could've easily topped States, in addition to winning a few more tournaments, but I don't whine about Vilegar. Vilegar, imo, is a boring deck to play, but I deal with it.

    But SP is just an amazing deck style in general...why the hate?
     
  2. z-man

    z-man New Member

    I'd say it has very little to do with the actual decks. My biggest thing is that "SP" is not a very ambiguous term... as I think it should have been. "SP" basically means Luxray, Garchomp, Dialga, and some techs. If I could redo the SP set, I would make many different self-sufficient SP cards that were not exactly techs, but rather decks. Heaven forbid, though, they make a Beedrill SP that could win anything >.< That would just be a horrible idea ;P

    I think the big deal about SP is that we've been playing it for... 2 and a half years now? It has been the top deck for a LONG TIME. I have played with and against it at almost every tournament I have gone to in the past few years. I am ready to play new decks. The day I go a tournament without seeing an SP deck, is the day I am a very happy player. I didn't get that effect with Plox just because I started competitive scene after plox was halfway through its "big popularity period". SP has been around and deserves to be put down. SP is just a horse that still performs, but suffers while performing.

    The reason that Gengar doesn't get as much hate is because SP is more popular to hate, and Gengar has seen many changes over the past few formats. Same with Gdos. SP is a relic of the HUGE powercreep made by some DP sets. I'm ready to go back to EX+Base (BW) mechanics.
     
  3. Scipio

    Scipio New Member

    THAT is whats wrong with SP. They basically boil down to:

    .....Chomp or Lux.....

    And those cards don't tend to allow fun games because you don't get to set up anything. That's a major gripe folks have with SP.
     
  4. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames Active Member

    But in SP dittos, you have to outplay your opponent with the techs your un in SP...

    z-man, I kinda have the same thought you did about Plox. Maybe the reason I don;'t hate SP is because I started going competitive around...the end of 09 I guess.
     
  5. Yoshi-

    Yoshi- New Member

    LOLLOOKIMPACTSPRAYSPRAYRUSHSCOOPROFL

    thats why. ALl it takes to beat sps are opening hands because sp is all about stopping you from playing,
    all games boil down to opening hands. And I want to play, not struggle to do anything. Its also stupidly overpowered, boring and always the same. And it makes bad players look good (at least in there own little world)

    e:/

    Ive never tested sp mirrors and seem to always win them, not because Im good but because I have the better draw. Come down to skill? Both playes have their dragonite and pom and the first one to fizzle out / get a crucial uxie sprayed / lacking the counter ko wins
     
  6. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames Active Member

    SP is crazy hard to play...

    Especially against hard matchups...

    And SP has its obvious counters, and techs to beat those counters. That's what makes SP so good, but it's imo one of the most fun to play...
     
  7. Yoshi-

    Yoshi- New Member

    Hard to play? Ive won / t8 cities states without ever playing it before, because its basically solomode. And yeah, sp has its obvious counters that dont work while sp can counter everything by just roflstomping all over it. And it has auto-counters to everything.

    If you enjoy playing with yourself I have better suggestions
     
  8. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames Active Member

    What decks did you play? Play any good players?
     
  9. Dual_Draw

    Dual_Draw New Member

    I actually don't understand how SP mirrors are hard to play, to me it's always come down to opening hands and whoever has more dces.
     
  10. baby mario

    baby mario Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg

    To be honest, you have a cheek to even ask this question.

    WHERE did you play all of these decks, and who were YOU playing against? As far as I can tell from your reports you have played nothing but Beedrill G. In Seniors. In a handful of premier tourneys. Against a bunch of mostly dubious decks. So why you are trying to present yourself as an expert on every competitive SP deck in the format (plus Beedrill), I have no idea.

    It'sobvious why people hate SP (I never have, if it matters). It's dominated the format for a very long time and people are sick of it, also it makes certain other decks (which people may prefer) impossible to play competitively.

    I don't believe SP is easier to play than any other deck. 99.9% of all decks can be picked up very quickly by an experienced and competent player.
     
  11. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames Active Member

    I'm no SP expert...

    I just love to play it. I mostly do playtesting with myself or vs. a couple friends...

    I'm not too sure how I came off as an SP pro :confused:
     
  12. Shen

    Shen Active Member

    I liked SP, but it has gotten so stale. We had a wide range of SP decks at one time. First we had Toolbox variants consisting of any combination of Honchkrow, Weavile, Skutank, Toxicroak, Houndoom, and Dialga. I loved it because it was such a technical deck in an era of the rather auto-pilot decks. Those hardly place at all anymore. Then we had variants focusing more on locking like Palkia w/ Mesprits and/or Dialga. Then we had Infernape/Luxray which had eventually evolved into Blaziken/Luxray and now we hardly ever see Blaziken at all if its not a tech.

    All we really have now is Luxchomp and Dialgachomp, and out of those Luxchomp is mostly what we see placing. Luxchomp doesn't feel nearly as demanding to play as did early Toolbox variants. It's versatile and its game isn't linear at all, but it feels like some people can still get by even if they make some misplays. It's not the technical, demanding skill that drives this kind of SP deck anymore... it gets more help from the broken cards that were introduced like DCE. When Palkia came out, it seemed pretty amazing that it could get at Claydol for 80 so easily for the KO. Then Garchomp does the same thing for 1 energy drop + heal the field.

    So in summation, I really liked how SP started because you needed to know how to play it and you were set back a bit more when you made misplays. It was skill that drove it to the top back then. Now, you need so few resources that a misplay is hard to punish and the cards SP has access to just sets it apart from everything else. The SP meta isn't as open as it used to be.

    Also, I don't know about everyone else but I still have a hard time putting Sablock variants in the same category as other SP decks.

    It's really not as diverse as that list makes it out to be >.> You listed Dialgachomp twice, and Luxray Toolbox variants haven't placed very well this season. They're not as viable. Again, I have a hard time admitting that Sablock/Chenlock are SP variants 'cuz they don't even incorporate many SP staples. Traditional Sablock runs like 2 or 3 SP Pokemon, it feels more like a hybrid deck similar to many Gyarados builds (It's not uncommon to see Gyara run Initiative + Mesprits, either). And Chenlock is like literally a 2 card difference, usually.

    So like I said, we just worry about Dialgachomp and Luxchomp... and I haven't looked at the S/T/P placements recently but last I did it was pretty clear that Luxchomp was dominating the top tables. The winning decks in this format are not diverse at all.
     
  13. baby mario

    baby mario Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg

    Don't worry.

    You didn't.
     
  14. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames Active Member

    There's plenty of winning decks:

    Luxchomp
    Vilegar
    LostVileGar
    LostGar
    Dialgachomp
    Sablock
    Chenlock
    Gyarados
    Machamp

    IDK how this is stale really...

    I'd say the format is diverse-ish.
     
  15. StormFront

    StormFront New Member

    Its not the SP pokémon, its the engine which gives them an unfair advantage over everything else and they can counter anything like no other decks can. Not to mention virtual 1 for 60/80 snipes which makes setting up almost impossible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2011
  16. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames Active Member

    Well, deal with it tbh.

    Gengar, a Stage 2 with a 2 energy attack, dealt with it. Vileplume. Machamp dealt with it. Insane speed.

    About the engine, I think people forget about the Fossil engine sometimes too...and the Rotom engine...and a whole bunch of mini-engines that exist. SP just seems to be the most dominant.

    And SP isn't the only thing that's winning, Look at what won.
     
  17. vaporeon

    vaporeon Moderator

    My 2 Cents.

    SP is very easy to play and if you look at my past tournament reports, you'll see I've only been playing Basic Pokemon. Take a look at Chaos Legends. I thought I would like SP because they were all basic but it was too easy to play. I like playing red face powder because I like to prove that I can win without using net decks.

    Right now I'm Playing Leafeon and I can't beat every other deck in the format but 1 and that SP. The reason I hate SP is because of Power Spray. This format is heavy with Poke-Powers its not even funny and don't saya you need 3 SPs out to play it because during my test, 1 in every 7 games were Luxchomp/ SP deck here hat out 3 SPs by turn 2, turn 1 if I went first.

    I say its time for SP to leave so people can play other decks. I don't think SP is much of a problem but the MAIN issue is Power Spray and that the Pokemon setup fast.

    Don't even get me started on Cyrus.
     
  18. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames Active Member

    But then how doess Vilegar, Lostgar, and Dos have the ability to thrive, provided the metagame is right? Vilegar doesn't even let SP drop a Power Spray. Lostgar normally is played LostVileGar, and does the exact same, only winning in different ways. Dos does 90 for 0 and relies on Sableye to set up more, and plays insane amounts of Poke Powers so even SP has difficulty Spraying them all.

    SP can be beaten. Sorry if your rogues aren't working, cause mine aren't either. Oh well.
     
  19. baby mario

    baby mario Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg

    You forgot Steelix and Magnezone.

    Out of the 9 decks you listed (and counting Sablelock and Chenlock as seperate decks is a stretch), 4 are Chomp-based and 3 are Gengar-based. Out of the other 2, Gyarados hasn't had a whole lot of success at States and neither has Champ.

    So, even going by your own list, the format is dominated by Garchomp and Gengar.

    Not so much variety as you suggest, is it? I mean, you are trying to prove variety by listing Lostgar, Vilegar, and LostVileGar? :lol:
     
  20. Shen

    Shen Active Member

    I was talking about winning SP decks >.> Not ALL of the winning decks. I do like this format because plenty of decks have a chance to win, but the winning tables are still heavily populated by SP decks:

    It's mostly just Luxchomp, lol. We have a couple of Dialgachomps, but it's pretty much Luxchomp. Even in a tournament with several "good" SP decks, I'm trying to illustrate that only 1 (Luxchomp) wins most the time. In other words if you're playing an SP deck, and you win, I'll bet it was Luxchomp. That's what I mean by the SP meta has gotten stale. Look at how the number of other SP decks (Only Dialgachomp, unless you class Sablock as one) compare to the number of Luxchomps.
     

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