Spectreon's BER deck (not a typo!)

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Spectreon, Jan 30, 2004.

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  1. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    First off, all props for this idea go to Arthas. He mentioned an ineresting combo that spurred this twisted idea from my even more twisted brain. Now on with the newest Blaze/Ray deck, BER.....

    24 Pokes
    4 Sparce
    4 Torchik
    3 Combuskin
    3 Blazekin
    2 Ray
    2 Skitty
    2 Delcatty
    2 Eevee
    2 Espy (AQ)

    19 Trainers
    4 Oracle
    4 Shaman
    4 Reporter
    3 Warp Point
    1 Fisherman
    1 Town Vulunteers
    2 HP System

    17 NRG
    3 Lightning
    2 Psy
    10 Fire
    2 Warp


    Now the idea is, Blaze can Fire Starter, Espy can pick up, and attach to Active if needed, or discard for 3 more. It also gives 'Infinite Warp Ability' to Qauza, allowing it to bench, restock, and with free retreaters (Espy and HP taking care of Torchiks or Combuskins retreat cost.) Espy even comes in handy as an anti Gardi tech if need be... though wont see much of it I am sure... Essentially all the functions of BAR, but without the Amphy....
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2004
  2. Shift

    Shift New Member

    Very nice strategy, this version of Blaziken/Ray looks like it could set up a bit faster than BAR. Have you gotten a chance to test it yet? I'd like to hear how this fares against other decks.

    I have no fixes, the deck seems fine as is.

    Well, I have just one fix, make the title Blaziken/Eevee/Espeon/Ray, that way it spells out BEER, which sounds cool for a deck title. :D
     
  3. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    mmmmmm, BEER, aaaaaaaugh *Drool*

    Dont think Pokegym would let me Post a deck named BEER. Otherwise BAR could easily be known as BRA, lol. I could make it BRE, like cheese, only spelled different (Green Mile ref)

    No this was made as I was typing it up. I basically took my Blaze/Tails deck I recently made for a tourney yesterday (which won btw, thanks Venusuar/Jermy) and something I read in a thread I started about 2-2 combos. Here's the quote that spurred the idea

    Now we all know that all Blaze decks run Catty (if they dont, they should!!!). Which spurred the idea I could do it for extra NRG Draw if needed. And Blaze/Ray requires either a lot of switching or Ampharos. Well, so many decks run AQ Espy with Warp Energy for infinite Switching..... It was an interesting thought process, that took place very early in the morning as well.. I think I hurt myself trying to come up with it.... lol. No I havent built it, and it needs some testing, but in practice set ups, it runs every bit as good as BAR. I need to tweek it to 4 Blaze, with Candy for speed most likely, but I only have 3 Blazekins right now, and will have access to only 2 Qazza's so far. 1 more of each would be best, but I have to go with what I actually have, seeing as CC is right around the corner...

    If I include Eevee, I would have to include Torchik, Dunsparce and Cumbuskin, Skitty and Delcatty creating...
    STDDCBEER
    BCDCREDET
    or whatever.... lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2004
  4. Shift

    Shift New Member

    Haha, I was only kidding about the BEER thing, but you know, it sounds cool.

    Your probably right about the Rare Candies, maybe 3, so you can get them fast with Oracle/Delcatty.

    It's a good strategy, good luck with the deck, man.
     
  5. plaidlesspez

    plaidlesspez New Member

    Hey i use that AQ Espy combo too in my Slaking (with blazzy) deck. It works very nicely. I'm sure it's great with Blazzy/Rayquaza too.

    You don't need Psychic energy. Take them out for more warp and electric energy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2004
  6. Dek

    Dek New Member

    why you LITTLE...!!!

    nah, just joking :lol:

    anyhoo, you made some good use of my strategy, but at least spell my name corerclty :lol:

    anyhoo (again), here was my intention when I first made the strategy:

    1. Espeon would stay on the bench at all times so it can use its power. (therefore, bye bye Psychics)
    2. incorporate Switch to protect Espeon.

    Therefore, here are my thoughts on the deck:
    1. looks solid, but I personally dont see the purpose for 4 Dunsparce
    2. (Read intention number 1 and number 2)

    Therfore here are my fixes

    -2 Psychic
    -1 Fire
    -2 Dunsparce

    +3 Rainbow Energy
    +2 Switch (incase theWArp Energy doesnt show up)
     
  7. Pablo

    Pablo New Member

    jerms u serious about this????? u talk about amphy as it beiong constant, espy will also be constant, and will provide a free retreater everry time, ittl just stay in the bench using its power just like amphy, i think this has future, but well have to see through playtesting.
     
  8. Scizor

    Scizor New Member

    Re

    Look while Espeon might SEEM like a good idea HONESTLY why would it be better than Amphy in here? And i know you can shift energy around with that stupid power, but seriously NO SWITCH? 3 Warp Point is garbage. You have WE, but that is still an energy attachment, ONE is enough. What happens if you want to JUST switch your guy. Hmm let's see they have an Aggron with like 5 energy on it and you just attacked with your blaziken or something and have a quaza waiting on the bench, oooops i warp point SENDING aggron back and then i die next turn :) Fisherman? HP SYSTEM? NO rare candy? THREE BLAZIKEN? NO MULTI ENERGY ESPICALLY WITH THREE TYPES? And i guess shaman is ok, i have tested it, although i think at times it can help the opponent, espically mid game. POR is just better. Anyway this deck just does not compare to BAR or Blaziken/Rayquaza SOLO IMO. One last thing - you need probably ONE Crystal Shard for the MIRROR PERIOD. Ugh, anyway just listen to Jermy.
     
  9. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    First off, sorry ARTHAS... was just speelling it as it sounds in my head... they have been edited with my deepest appologeese (sp?)..

    Ok, I want essentially 4-2-4 with Blaze and 3-4 Candy... but this is for cards I actually have, which is unfortunately only 3 Blaze... and 2 Rays (I want a third...) will post my App deck list once I redownload it....

    The only disadvantage BER has is it waste the NRG attachment sometimes with the Warp NRG.

    No to any Ranbow Esque card. It counts as the R on Ray, and discards every time!!!! Espy will likely never attack....

    Fisherman is Awsome late game, after Blaze is incredibly outnumbered by discarded R, Allowing more actual attachments.

    HPS just helps with Retreating, but is a debatable card... It has its advantages and disadvantages....

    A C Shard sounds like a possible addition... maybe...

    In "Mirror Matches" (doubting Espy will get any respect) I have Shaman to help. Well timed, early game Shamans would help render opponents hands, but may do same to mine... it is still only 1 less card as if I Oak'd.

    Jermy, once I get App downloaded again (by Tues for sure) I will build the deck more correctly, and challenge BAR. BEER and BAR, sounds funny, lol. I think it will be a good match... I will lose most likely, but more due to lack of experience... (only 2 matches under my belt with this style deck so far, but 2-0)

    BER Vs BAR

    BER advantages.....

    Keeps switching fresh, allowing Ray to bench easier....

    Keeps Nrg supply in a state where you can attach, or rediscard for more cards

    Early Game Shaman can screw up opening BAR

    Espy is a Stage 1, which Eevee easily finds.

    BAR advantages

    The extra Nrg attachment not wasted on Warp Energy makes a difference.. prolly enough to keep this one the better of the two

    Amphy is way better Water Tech, if need be (Quazza wil still handle most water I would think, but Amphy is better BAckup for Ray vs Water then Espy will ever be)


    Side Notes

    I am campairing what BER should be to what BAR already is. I will post a better/App deck list later... this is just the best it can be for cards I actually have. This post is just my Opinion. I honestly think it would be a close race, but BAR will win 7-3 most likely, 5-5 at worst. Most games should be tight, within 2 prizes, barring simular openig hands and draw. The decks are pretty much main cards for cards, with few distinctions to reflect my own playing style and thoughts.... BER is good, believe it or not, so is BAR. its all about set up.. once that is outta the way, they just run... and extremely well... TOO WELL....lol.... more later

    oh yeah, considering
    -1 Psy
    +1 Cyclone

    allowing me to make Warp Points (at least 2 anyways) to Switch... if I go this route....
     
  10. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    Ok, even though it is basically a Double Post, this is the App/Final thought out version of what deck should be... once I get the last 2 Peices of the puzzle.....

    BER

    Pokemon(25)
    3 Torchic DR
    1 Torchic RS 40 HP (OHKO to Shed)
    2 Combusken RS (Maybe 1/1 with the Flare/Quick Attack)
    4 Blaziken
    3 Rayquaza ex
    2 Skitty SS
    2 Delcatty(Energy Draw)
    4 Dunsparce
    2 Eevee (SS)


    2 Espeon (AQ)

    Trainers(19)
    4 Desert Shaman
    4 TV Reporter
    4 Oracle
    3 Rare Candy
    1 Town Volunteers
    1 Fisherman
    2 HPS

    Energy(16)
    10 Fire
    3 Lightning


    2 Warp
    1 Cyclone

    Thats basicaly it... Warp Point is gone for the devestanigly more powerfull infinite Cyclone. the biggest draw back to this is no switch/force opponent to Switch at same time, but it maybe worth it...

    I dont like being without some Stadium control. I may drop HPS to 1, but 0 is not an option for me. In Mirror Matches, or against Water it most likely wont see play, but its usefullness against other Stadiums is to vital to my play style.... This can be a possible Warp Point or C Shard... or an extra draw card like Oak... Possibly!!!

    REALIZING/UTALIZING ESPY'S POWER
    A) Infinite Warp Energy
    B) Infinite Cyclone
    C) Anti Gardi/EX 2 fold, as it helps feed back, watch for this!
    D) To take benched NRG from Fire Starter and attach to Active
    E) To take Energy from Starter to re discard for Catty
    F) A free retreater!!! Vital to the idea of this deck...
     
  11. Scizor

    Scizor New Member

    Re

    OK i'll admit i was in a bad mood last night, so in all fairness i'll give you and ACUTAL fix. Here is how i would run it:

    4 Torchic (DRAGON)
    2 Combusken (DOUBLE KICK)
    4 Blaziken
    2 Skitty
    2 Delcatty
    4 Dunsparce
    2 Eevee
    2 Espeon
    2 Rayquaza EX
    24 Pokemon

    4 Rare Candy
    4 Oracle
    4 TV Reporter
    3 POR/Shaman
    2 Switch
    1 Warp Point
    1 Crystal Shard
    1 Town Volunteers
    20 Trainers

    11 Fire
    3 Lightning
    3 Multi
    17 Energy

    EH i know it is 61 cards, but find something to cut, because i can't. Anyway to explain: Your pokemon line is pretty much the same, except just 2 quaza, besides if you want you can SAR for 2 first turn. 4 RARE CANDY is absolute MUST. 2 Switch/1 WP is just perfect and you can fish the WP with Catty/Oracle anytime i guess. Crystal shard is just great in the mirror and vs Flygon and other stuff. Multi Energy is just flat out better than Rainbow and does the exact same thing. Plus i had to add it besides it seems like I was one of the first (MM and FULOP) to promote in these decks thanks to that question i asked on SCC haha. Anyway just find something to cut.....
     
  12. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    OK, FIRST BATTLE, BER VS BAR

    Thanks to Jermy/Venusaur for a great match. I made a mistake or 2 along the way, but deck ran rather well.... I still lost 6-4 in prizes. Not bad considering I am new to this deck style, and Jermy has played it for a while. I am somewhat happy with the results... So far deck is 2-1, Wins against a red face paint deck, a and Gardi Deck (though it got a rough early/mid game stutter). and a loss against BAR. First 2 wins where actuall deck, but BAR was my Final/App deck. Just wanted to post an update on it so far.... thanx for the replies so far....
     
  13. Dek

    Dek New Member

    thank me for those 2 wins will ya :lol:

    alright, just kidding. Anyways, your final version looks pretty good. Hope it works out for the City Championship
     
  14. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    The best you get is the credit for spurring the idea. THE DECK IS MINE!!! lol, ok not mine, its really Jermy/Venasuar's BAR deck - like all of a handful of cards (prolly 10 more or less). The only Major change was Espy and the 3 Special NRG. And yet these minor changes change the deck tremendiously.....


    The one thing I notced while playing BAR previously againsts Jermy is that Para/Sleep stalls him... doesnt usually cost him the game, but it cost him turns to attack, and barring extreme luck on opponents part on flips, can ultimately cost him game. Only 1 Warp Point wont be enough to get outta this. Sparce with 5 heads can KO Rayquaza for 2 Prizes before something else Ko's it for 1... I have basically done this to him with my Flygon Deck, so I no. He just does what he can, and ends turn... with Unlimited Warps this will not be a problem for my deck.

    And for your verion Scizor, I wouldnt bother... If you drop Warp NRG, you might as well just make Espy line a 2/2 Ninetails..... Espy will not ever attack (especially since I took out the Psy)
     
  15. Pablo

    Pablo New Member

    i agree in that, BAR decks are fast, but they usually stall for a good number of turns with sparce and i think thats what gives the advantage to Niniken over this, Niniken stalls 2 turns at the most, whilst preparing a benched blaziken followed by a tales, and BAR does have to wait to get 2 blazis and an amphy going.
     
  16. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    I purposefully stall with Sparce anyways.... Frees bench for extra Blaze or Quazza once KOed
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2004
  17. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    Ok, stadium Control doesnt seem to be an issue anymore... I think I was smokin somtething, and wasnt thinking properly. The main stadium I wanted to counter is Mirage, and I dont have too.... lol.. infinite Warps... Also cutting retreat helps very little in the scheme of things... so I have 2 free deck spaces... one idea is this.

    BERND (get it a dragon/fire deck Burned)... Along with the 2 stadiums....'
    -1 Ray
    -1 this was a tough call, but I finally decided on Fire NRG

    +2 Vulpix
    +2 Ninetails

    like it, hate it, rate it, rant it whatever, it is just a thought, mixes the 2 best style decks, BAR (ok, technically BER) with Blazetails/Ninekins whatever....

    Or,
    +2 Oaks Research (never have enough draw!!!)

    Or lastly,
    either 2 of 1, or 1 of both Switch/C Shard.

    this is my 2 cents, what are ya'll idea for these 2 spots
     
  18. Pidgeotto Trainer

    Pidgeotto Trainer New Member

    The Espeon version also should help a lot against Ampharos ex. Btw, The deck that needs the least setup is straight Blaziken/Rayquaza with Switch instead of Ampharos exp. The deck really works just as well but I think some people forget that since BAR had 100+ posts.
     
  19. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    Both work well, but like I said.... if BAR gets stuck on bad luck it cant do much.....Quzza gets a KO, gets stuck, gives up 2, Blaze or Ray comes up again, gets prize, gives up 2..... now noone is really that lucky (I would hope) but you get the idea. A turn or 2 of stalling with Sleep/Para can set up a quick KO. with Quazza up, its a 2-1, and with a Blaze up itrs even 1-1.... Not dissing BAR, just exploiting a weakness.... BER wont have to worry as much about this, just replay Warp.

    Yeah, through a BAR esque deck up, it gets looked over well... 255+ veiws on a deck thread I started 2 days ago, unreal... there are decks on here that dont get half the veiws.....

    Now back on topic.... 2 cards slots available... opinions???? or on Deck as a whole????
     
  20. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    Ok, 2 cards to play with, options are

    2 Mirage Stadium (with warp energy, no biggy)
    2 Nurse (Healing)
    2 Oaks Research
    2 Juggler

    or fix deck to these....

    2 juggler, 3 Reporter, 3 Shaman, 2 Oak
    or
    -1 Ray, and -1 R
    +2/2 Vulpix/Ninetails

    or other......??????
     
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