Spikes (HP-MD)

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Prime, May 5, 2008.

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  1. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    4 Cloyster SW
    4 Shellder SW
    3 Omanyte MD
    3 Omastar MD
    2 Claydol GE
    2 Baltoy GE
    TOTAL: 18 (6 Basics, 12 Evolutions)

    2 Scramble Energy
    12 Water Energy
    TOTAL: 14

    4 Celio's Network
    3 Steven's Advice
    3 Team Galactic's Wager
    3 Oak's Visit
    3 Warp Point
    3 Crystal Beach
    3 Helix Fossil
    4 Rare Candy
    1 Night Maintenance
    1 Fossil Excavator
    TOTAL: 28

    I adore the new Omastar. I feel it's poke-power is really awesome and a good damage spread deck could work with it and create a really good idea. I threw around different ideas for spreading damage. I've seen people mentioning Lucario and Glaceon lv.X as damage spreaders, but they don't really spread damage that efficiently, or quickly. Empoleon has been mentioned quite a bit with Omastar, but I feel Prinplup is lacking, and the deck might be a little slow with 2 stage 2's and a stage 1 and no real starter (at least in my version). I was looking over Pokepedia.net (awesome site) and came across Cloyster (SW).

    I've always liked the card because of it's versatility. Sure it's flippy, but with some good flips, you have many options to choose from. With 3/4 heads, you can choose to snipe 3 different pokemon for 20, lay 40 on one pokemon and 20 on another, or snipe a single pokemon for 60. I feel it's a much better damage spreader than Lucario, Glaceon lv.X, and Prinplup because of it's versatility and cheap attacks. Whether it is better than Empoleon is debatable. Empoleon has a much better late game use since it has more HP, and has consistent damage with very little (if any) flips. But it's also a stage 2 and takes 3 energy to start doing big damage.

    The idea of this deck is to spread damage with Cloyster and then devolve them with Omastar to KO multiple pokemon. It's pretty simple. Claydol plays it's common role as a hand refresher.

    It's an idea, might as well discuss it.
     
  2. Prize_Card

    Prize_Card New Member

    Cool idea! I like the idea of using cloyster, but a problem I see is that its a little risky.. Maybe using stage 2 dmg spreaders could be more affective. like maybe ampharoas.. I would maybe even try gallade.. Sonic blade everything then pop a omastar and de-evolve everything for multiple knock outs. and maybe consider using absol ex? Could be a good tech and good change the flow of games.
     
  3. Dennis Hawk

    Dennis Hawk New Member

    I'm liking Dodrio with Omastar. Should go well with Scrambles, and (20+)20+30 is enough to common basics. Maybe you can fit in 1-1? With 3 Warp Points, free retreat helps also.
     
  4. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Dennis_Hawk: When I did my research on PokePedia, I saw Dodrio. I didn't really like it because it can't do squat until you get 3 energy on it. Since there is no starter in this deck that you could sacrifice early to fuel a Scramble, you will end up having to take 3 turns of attaching energy to Dodrio. I can't afford to wait that long to power a single Dodrio. Sure, mid-late game, I could scramble it, and it does have free retreat, which is nice. I would definitely have to max out the scrambles though.

    Prize_Card: Gallade isn't bad at all. Of course, I've already seen people talking about Omastar in GG. Gallade might have energy issues, but that could be resolved with multi/DRE/scramble/etc. I do like how Versatile Gallade is, how it can pile up to 50 and force to the bench or just OHKO the big threat that is active. The only problem with continual (insert Gallade's first attack here) is that after two of them, the opponent will just send up the other one that has 50hp left and you won't be able to use that attack again. Maybe if you had a GOW on the bench that you could use. Warp Point wouldn't work either after that for the same reason.

    Then again, Gardevior lv.X works with Gallade like that. I dunno. It's not a bad idea though.

    Oh yeah, I feel a 1-1 Aerodactyl could be a nice play in this deck to spread a little damage on Powered pokemon. Oh yeah, and Call Energy would be nice too!
     
  5. Black Mamba

    Black Mamba New Member

    I like the idea, but Cloyster's unreliability puts it in the same category as something like Porygon Z for me. It can do good damage, but when you need it to, it won't. Not sure what else you could use though, you sound like you went through most of the possibilities already. Usually I like Omastar d in any deck that has Fossils like this one to make for an easy GG kill, but that seems kinda awkward in this list. I'm against Aero and Call though, since Aero just lowers your consistency and Call can't get out your fossils.

    Good luck with it.
     
  6. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Black Mamba: I don't think Aerodactyl would ruin consistency since it's just a 1-1. If I do start with that fossil though, I can just discard it and bring up whatever basic I wanted to start with. Omantye can bring back the fossil later on with it's power too.

    Call Energy, I feel is a decent idea, even if it can't get fossils. Omastar isn't the early-game or even mid-game pokemon. But getting out Claydol ASAP is important. So if I ran 3-4 Call Energy and start with Shellder/Baltoy (6/9 basics), I could grab the Baltoy or Shellder and start setting up. Both Omastar and Cloyster only need 1 water to use their attacks.

    I can definitely see Cloyster being flippy, and it might be too flippy to be useable. Again, this was just an idea (was going to test it at league this weekend).

    Thanks for the replies everyone.
     
  7. Nevermore

    Nevermore New Member

    You could go with Relicanth for a starter. That'd allow you to tech in Aerodactyl(s) and have scramble fodder.
     
  8. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Neveremore: I tried Relicanth. It got out fossils and then set there for a few turns and did nothing. Again, Omastar isn't that great of an attacker, and I don't need it on the field really early in the game. Claydol needs to be on the field ASAP to help setup, and Cloyster is the early attacker (replace cloyster with whatever you like) and that needs to be in play quick. The way I see it, call energy would be great for this deck. If I start with any basic and a call energy, I can grab the baltoy T1 (even if I go first).

    Here is the build I am thinking of:

    4 Cloyster SW
    4 Shellder SW
    3 Omanyte MD
    3 Omastar MD
    2 Claydol GE
    2 Baltoy GE
    TOTAL: 18 (6 Basics, 12 Evolutions)

    4 Call Energy
    10 Water Energy
    TOTAL: 14

    4 Celio's Network
    3 Steven's Advice
    3 Roseanne's Reseach
    3 Team Galactic's Wager
    2 Oak's Visit
    2 Warp Point
    3 Crystal Beach
    3 Helix Fossil
    3 Rare Candy
    1 Night Maintenance
    1 Fossil Excavator
    TOTAL: 28

    I cut a rare candy. Omastar practically sets itself up. Roseanne's Research, I feel, is needed for any deck without a starter. I cut a warp point, a oak's visit, and a rare candy to fit in 3 roseanne's research. With 3 Roseanne's Research and 4 Call Energy, I should be able to pull basics out pretty fast. I haven't worked out how I'm going to work in a 1-1 Aerodactyl yet, or if it's even needed.
     
  9. Nevermore

    Nevermore New Member

    Yeah, but it's not all that useless if you were to include a few Holon Fossil to set up them 'dactyls faster. Or does that stray away too far from what you intended?
     
  10. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Aerodactyl was only going to be in the deck to help spread dmg on powered pokemon, but it might not be needed at all, and is not reliable since it relies on the opponent actually using powers.

    Holon Fossil wouldn't be a bad idea, but I really like the new fossils too.
     
  11. merman

    merman New Member

    I think octillery is more reliable. I mean you can hit for 30 or 50 + discard a special OR you can get guarnateed 40 to any bench.
     
  12. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Octillery was another card that I checked out. It wasn't bad, but I'd rather run Prinplup over Octillery because it can spread damage for cheap and snipe things for 40, and it has an evolution.

    Thanks for the post!
     
  13. Master_Whiscash_77

    Master_Whiscash_77 New Member

    Great idea, but I think Cloyster will depend too much on luck. Don't give up if Cloyster doesn't work though. Just keep toying with it.
     
  14. ShuckleLVX

    ShuckleLVX Active Member

    i actualy really like cloyster. I play Flippy decks, because i enjoy them ^_- My current baby is an exploud/wigglytuff deck lol

    as for this, i really think you need more excavators, but thats just me.
     
  15. Time for Pain

    Time for Pain <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?

    why not run the Claydol (HP) that does 10 to everybody for 1 energy?
     
  16. AnimeDDR110

    AnimeDDR110 New Member

    I say tech in a 1-1-1 Gradevoir LV.X line.
    Cloyster will snipe, and then gardevoir will bring down whats left.
     
  17. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    AnimeDDR110: How would I pay for Gard lv.X's attacks? With the two lone scrambles (that I took out in the recent version)?

    I think Gard lv.X and Gallade are the combo you want to use if you are going to abuse Bring Down.

    Time for Pain: Not a bad idea, but I'd rather use a pokemon like Prinplup to spread for 1 and also snipe for 40.

    ShuckleLvX: Neat name. More Excavators would just grab the fossils quicker. I don't need the Omastar out any time soon. There is no reason to it to see play until I've spread the damage around. That is why I haven't focused on Omastar, but rather the spreading of the damage so that Omastar can come in use late game (or a mid-game disruption).

    Thanks for the replies!
     
  18. Time for Pain

    Time for Pain <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?

    I just don't like cloyster because it has the ability to do 0 because it relies on coin flips. I am not saying it won't work, I would just like something else that can spread damage
     
  19. deckmaster

    deckmaster Active Member

    Awesome idea!
     
  20. Darkwalker

    Darkwalker New Member

    Fit in at least one Phione. Phione along with Call Energy sets up your whole deck (except for finding the Helix fossils). You could maybe cut the Cloyster line to 3-3 for 1 more NM and a Phione. I also think you should max out the TGW as shuffling in all their evolutions is one of the main strategies you are focusing on, maybe remove 1 Steven's Advice for the 4th TGW.
     
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