Stalling

Discussion in 'City Championships' started by I am Entei, Jan 6, 2008.

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  1. I am Entei

    I am Entei New Member

    I've been hoping I wouldn't have to write this but last night at Niles CC was the last straw for me. The object of the game for a majority of players in Masters (I'm not saying everyone so please don't reply that it's not everyone) is to get ahead in prize cards and then to stall.
    At Nationals, 5 out of my 9 opponents incessantly looked through their discard pile, searched their deck, looked again at their discard pile, looked at their hand, etc. I did ask the person to be courteous and to play in a timely manner. Most laughed and said they could do what they want. I called over a judge the first few times and they said the player had the right to search and research if they so choose.
    At the Battle Roads, it wasn't done a lot to me but I saw people around me being stalled.
    Cities have brought this to a new level! Last night, I had 3 people take the first prize card and then take 10 minutes a turn! One guy for a Celios looked at his discard pile 9 times and his deck 8 times before choosing a Smeargle!! Around me (since I had so much time waiting for my turn), I saw it happening everywhere!!
    IMHO, it's time to bring a turn timer like they have in competitive chess into the game. Hit the button when the first person draws, and they have 2 minutes for their turn. When they finish their turn, the hit the button and the next person has 2 minutes and so forth. If time expires, your turn ends immediately and your opponent begins their turn. Other alternatives are too subjective and the judges can't keep track of everyone. Note that I only recommend this for the Masters and maybe the Seniors.
    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. P_A

    P_A Active Member

    Plain flat out no! Who is going to pay for all these turn timers? You? For a hundred player event? Face reality will you? Talk to the PTO or TO who organized the event. Ask him/her if it's possible that the judges be more aware of this subtle form of cheating, and leave it in his/her hands. Then if nothing is done, get in touch with POP in your my pokemon account with the report event feature. This doesn't have to be a normal occurance at events you happen to attend. If it does happen on a regular basis, and you find it's just too much for you, then don't attend. Sorry to say it, but if you find everyone is taking too long for their turns, perhaps you have a problem as well. Being calm, and forgiving is essential when you go to these events so you can show the spirit of the game, even when others don't.
     
  3. Viva piñata

    Viva piñata Active Member

    first i wouldnt suggest a time turn clock becuase lets say you could win the turn your on but you have to really consintrate but instead of that they stare at the clock hopen they dont run out of time.sso if someone stalling you just raise your hand and call for a judge and tell them this person is stalling in amatter that he is takingadvantage of his time and that he has looked at his discard pile a cerain to many times per turn and so on.
     
  4. meganium45

    meganium45 Active Member

    And what did the judge say when it was brought to their attention?

    How many judges were there for a 75 player event?

    You have to make the judge aware, or it will keep going on.

    Comes down to making the judges sit on the match, then so be it!

    Vince
     
  5. Magic_Umbreon

    Magic_Umbreon Researching Tower Scientist, Retired

    I've seen this business before but never heard of it as blatant as for against you. Personally, I don't see any reason for a long deck search late game, even if the card you're looking for is prized. It also seems reasonable for your opponent to have some strategic alleby for searching their discard. If you have 2 minutes left and they say "just wondered what was there" it's just poor isn't it? Fair discard search for example might be "I wondered how many super scoop ups I had used to decide whether to play a draw card or attack on a coin flip instead" but this couldn't happen of course. Grrr, I'd say get a judge and be vigilent don't let them get away with it.
     
  6. TheDancingPeanut

    TheDancingPeanut New Member

    Stalling is a big problem. The best solution is to extend the game X turns beyond time.
     
  7. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    In your post, you never mention calling a judge over at this CC. It would seem like that is the 1st step. If you did calla judge and got no "real help", then respond thru your my pokemon acct and give a review of the event. If not enough judges, note it. If space was poor, note it. If the TO/PTO put on a great event, note it. Give positives and negatives....dont just respond when a negative happens. PUI likes to hear the positive feedback too!

    Keith
     
  8. Quatra

    Quatra New Member

    S/He did call a judge over a few times and was told.

    "I called over a judge the first few times and they said the player had the right to search and research if they so choose."

    To intentionally drag the battle on just to shuffle the deck or search your discard multiple times is not against the rules. But it does waste time, and in my opinion is just not fair to your opponent.
     
  9. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    We don't need turn timers.

    Sure players can search their deck, but they can't use that as justification to burn the clock. TIME EXTENSIONS FTW.


    [Anti slow play judge for hire!]
     
  10. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    Reread the 1st post.....they called the judge over at Nats (at least, that is the part of the post where it was mentioned) That is why I asked the question about the tourney yesterday.

    Keith
     
  11. I am Entei

    I am Entei New Member

    Lawman, There was one judge per level and they had been recruited at the last minute. And they had their hands full running the tournament too. Niles was not well-prepared. I'm just discouraged that I would have to call a judge over and then I'm the bad guy because I'm a whiner or such. Also, my reviews of events have included those comments on the Pokemon website. So I hope they take that feedback back to the people running the tournaments.

    Meganium, As to a judge sitting per match, that's more realistic than a timer?

    If everyone agrees that it's part of the game, then it's a game I'll probably play less and less.

    Thanks for your opinions.
     
  12. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    ^You do realize that your opponent may NOT be stalling by looking at their hand/deck and discard. It's posible that he/she is trying to figure out what card to play, by looking to see where cards are. Now it sounds like your opponents are stalling, but not all ppl do.
     
  13. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    even if not deliberately stalling, excessive time spent examining the discard or deck is likely to be a slow play infraction.
     
  14. ShadowGuard

    ShadowGuard <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    The problem is, somethimes you can't say whether a player does time-taking actions because he really needs them or because he only wants to stall time.

    In critical situations, even honest players start to think twice about all their actions. They look at their discard pile to determine how many PlusPowers they maybe still can get from their deck and count their deck cards to see how big the chances are. For myself, I have problems to play fast in such complicated situations, but I don't change my playing speed intentionally because I have fewer prizes left or somethings.

    But, even if all these things take time, they should only be done if really necessary. Playing a senseless Night Maintenance when the game is nearly over and all important Pokémon are already set up ore running a Quick Ball if you know there will be no Pokémon in the deck you can use in the situation is really unsporty, but (too) often happens.
     
  15. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    If any player playing in one of my tourneys takes a 10 min turn, there will be corrections/warnings etc. Even if it is just a time extention, something will be done, if brought to my attention. Players that start telling me they can X secs or mins to shuffle/search etc will draw my ire real fast bc it sounds like they are trying to "game the system".

    My son was playing up agst a MA in a CC a few weeks back (wasnt age seperated). He was up one prize in the match most of the game. I was manning the computer as time was winding down and his was one of 2 matches going. The judge(s) were out on the floor and I could see my son take his turn in a quick manner, not thinking too much at all and made his announced attack as the last few seconds were ticking off the clock. The oppo. drew his card with 4 secs to go.....I call time, oppo. ties the match and then takes the game a few turns later in SD. I was proud that he didnt slow play the oppo. and played his regular speed. He knew what he could do and did the move. Good SotG.

    Now, I also only make one time call a rd in swiss, at the 15 min mark. My judges are instructed to answer Q's about time to answer "less than ___ " last announced time. If before the call, it is less than 30, after and it is less than 15. We dont see too many stalling/slow play issues this way.

    How many time checks were called? I especially dont like it when a venue announces "5 mins to go"....I see so few turns played after that. JMHO.

    Keith
     
  16. Mew*

    Mew* Active Member

    I played 2T Banette a Cities today, and the first round I mulliganed over 10 times. It was crazy! By no means was I trying to stall. Sometimes it is an accident. Actually, that game did end up geting ended by the clock in my favor, but it was 1 prize to 4 prizes, and my opponent was the one playing slow :lol:. That is just his style. I would have won any way since his supplies were exhausted.

    But I can see it being a problem when it is done deliberatively. It should only take three to five seconds to search through a discard pile and many other tasks. One of the luxuries of casual play is that stalling isn't effective.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2008
  17. I am Entei

    I am Entei New Member

    Mew, I'm sure you didn't mean to offend anyone but I don't think you need to describe people like that. I know of 2 juniors who have a form of autism and they have both won multiple tournaments over the last 3 years. So please edit that out.
    As for multiple mulligans, I've never had an issue with a judge giving an extension for that. My issue is when they are up a prize card in a game as you addressed at the end of your reply.

    Lawman, I like your time call out plan. Last night, like other nights, the only time call out was 5 minutes left.
     
  18. Aggy&Co.

    Aggy&Co. Member

    I have played stallers before and at the end of the game that I lost on I reported it to my HJ for him to be aware of, I think this is one case where you have to be extra careful in how you go about catching the guy/girl. If he/she is a staller then they will do it all the time and their play will reflect it. With a judge watching for this it's almost an instant caught, If you reported it on the first round it may be the only way you can make a case to have your results changed. I don't know, I took the loss and learned from it walked away happy because the rest of the tourney was great even though I played terrible that day.
    Any issue I teach my kids & train myself to call a judge, explain their arguement coherently and without malice and let the wheels of justice prevail.
     
  19. Wood811

    Wood811 New Member

    Yeah I agree there was alot of stalling at Niles. I heard a couple of games where if the person just made 1 move the other would've won. Whether it is intentional or not ppl should play faster.
     
  20. bulbasnore

    bulbasnore Administrator Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod

    Seems to be becoming focused on Niles, so moved to the CC Forum.
     
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