Stuck in the Muk (Unlimited)

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by dkates, Aug 13, 2003.

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  1. dkates

    dkates New Member

    An Unlimited version of the classic LC/AQ Muk combo. Not sure it stands a chance against my other deck (Dark Unown), but I think it might have something to it.

    Pokemon (14):
    3 Scyther (Jungle) [Anti-Tyrogue]
    4 Grimer (2 AQ, 2 Rocket) [Evolve to Muk]
    4 Muk (2 AQ, 2 LC) [Muk combo]
    1 Magby (Genesis) [Backup for LC Muk]
    2 Tyrogue (Discovery) [Backup attack]

    Energy (14):
    9 Grass Energy [Basic Energy type]
    1 Recycle Energy [Retreats, SER, Babies]
    3 Double Colorless Energy [AQ Muk backup, Scyther, Babies]
    1 Warp Energy [Retreats, Babies]

    Trainers (32):
    1 The Rocket's Training Gym [Complicate retreats]
    2 Switch [Retreats]
    1 Super Energy Removal [Slow down opponent]
    2 Grass Cube 01 [More Special Conditions]
    3 Nightly Garbage Run [Discard rescue]
    2 Gust of Wind [Choose my target]
    2 Sabrina's Gaze [Hand disruption/Draw Power]
    2 Oracle [Deck-search combo]
    2 Chaos Gym [Anti-Trainers]
    2 Pokemon Nurse [Healing]
    2 Bill [Oracle combo]
    1 Juggler [Draw Power]
    2 Professor Oak [Draw Power]
    2 Energy Charge [Discard rescue -- Special Energy]
    2 Energy Removal [Slow down opponent]
    2 Fisherman [Discard rescue -- Basic Energy]
    2 PlusPower [Boost attacks]

    Strategy: This is an anti-Power (including anti-Slowking) deck. The Muk line uses Special Conditions, which poses one problem -- switching Pokemon in Unlimited is pretty easy. So, I added Rocket's Training Gym to increase Retreat Cost, or I can use Chaos Gym, making it difficult to use Trainers to get away from Special Conditions. Magby and LC Muk keep Powers off, and Scyther and Tyrogue can back up with attack power. I have little in the way of brute force (other than Scyther, I max out at 30), but I hope I won't need it. I just wish I had some Gold Berries and Focus Bands left, but they're all in my other deck.
     
  2. mukman

    mukman New Member

    I have not played much unlimited, but I owuld think you need a few cards:

    1. Cleffa (probably more than that magby)
    2. Switch/Warp Point (you are using Muks, you shouldn't have to use up that energy for retreating.

    Also, Muk's are seriously hurt by psychic pokemon, so I would consider some Murkrow or seomthing to help out against them. And what happens when you play against the Sneasel/Zapdos type decks?
     
  3. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Thanks for the answer. I would use Cleffa, but my only Genesis ones are in my other deck -- I only have a Promo one available. I do have some Switches, but I could put in more if you could suggest what to take out for them. I don't have Darkness Energies available (also, all in my other deck), so I can't use Murkrow. I have not playtested this deck yet.
     
  4. mukman

    mukman New Member

    Is it too hard to take those cards out of your other deck whenever you wish to use this one? I think the single juggler could go, and the 2 pokemon nurses. Gold Berry's and Focus Bands would be much more useful to you than a nurse (which makes you discard your energy).
     
  5. dkates

    dkates New Member

    True, I could do that, but I would like to be able to use one deck against the other, for playtesting purposes.
     
  6. mukman

    mukman New Member

    Try apprentice for playtesting purposes. It's much easier.
     
  7. dkates

    dkates New Member

    I actually got new copies of some of the cards I needed, and have constructed this new version:

    Pokemon (16):
    2 Chansey (Base)
    1 Cleffa (Promo)
    4 Grimer (2 AQ, 2 Rocket)
    4 Muk (2 AQ, 2 Fossil/LC)
    3 Scyther (Jungle)
    1 Tyrogue (Discovery)
    1 Pichu (Genesis)

    Trainers (30):
    2 Bill
    2 Chaos Gym
    2 Energy Charge
    3 Energy Removal
    3 Focus Band
    3 Gold Berry
    2 Gust of Wind
    2 Nightly Garbage Run
    2 Oracle
    2 Professor Oak
    2 Sabrina's Gaze
    1 Super Energy Removal
    2 Switch
    1 The Rocket's Training Gym
    1 Town Volunteers

    Energy (14):
    4 Double Colorless Energy
    8 Grass Energy
    2 Metal Energy

    Strategy: Since this is a DCI Unlimited deck, Metal Chansey still works. I incorporated that strategy for two reasons: I needed attack power, and I'd never done Metal Chansey before. Chansey also provides some Psychic Resistance, covering the Muk line's Weakness. A Metal Chansey even stands a fair chance against a Mewtwo EX, as playtesting against my other deck proved. The current strategy is to stop Powers with LC Muk, while attacking with AQ Muk, Scyther and Tyrogue until I can get Chansey ready. I can also use Oracle, then Bill or Cleffa to deck search. The deck uses a lot of drawing and a lot of discard rescue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2003
  8. Mr_Fuji

    Mr_Fuji New Member

    Okay, I'll give her a shot.

    14
    4 Grimer (LC)
    2 Muk (LC)
    2 Muk (AQ)
    2 Scyther (Jungle)
    2 cleffa (Neo)
    2 Tyrogue (smash punchy!)

    14
    10 Grass Energy
    4 DCE

    32
    4 Item Finder
    3 Search
    3 Oak
    3 Elm
    3 Focus band
    3 Gust of Wind
    3 ER
    2 Lass
    2 Pokemon Fan Club
    2 Switch
    2 Town Volenteers
    2 Energy stadium

    --fuji
     
  9. dkates

    dkates New Member

    I'm a few cards short, but it looks like a good deck. I'll get the cards I need and try it. BTW, which set is the LC Grimer originally from? I disagree on the Energy Stadium, but I can just use different Stadiums.
     
  10. Mr_Fuji

    Mr_Fuji New Member

    I used the ES's because of the 10 grass's, and the grimers were fossil.
     
  11. NatorUltimater

    NatorUltimater New Member

    Trust me, every deck needs 4 Energy Removals and an additional way to remove energys.
    1.Dragonair (hyperbeam)
    2.Golduck (hyperbeam)
    3.Super Energy Removal
     
  12. Mr_Fuji

    Mr_Fuji New Member

    NatorUltimater, Dude, Golduck and Dragonair require the entire decks being based arround them... And if you want ANY pokemon to base the deck arround for removals, use Koga's Muk...

    ANYWAY... 4 ER is just overkill in most decks. 3-3 or 3-2 ER/SER lines are perfectly balanced. I've ued removals since base set's first release, and i'm never run short with that.

    Now how about we actually look at the deck, rather than state rand0m things...
     
  13. NatorUltimater

    NatorUltimater New Member

    Mr_Fuji Just who do you think you are,uh?You anger me!
    The cards that you need Most require 4 of a kind.
    Energy Removal is needed Badly to disarm heavy-duty attackers...such as Charzaird's fire spin...if you never remove the energys,he'll strike ya hard!

    This just proves how important removing energys is!

    Better make that FOUR

    BTW: Dragonair and Golduck are Only examples...Could have just as easily have said any thing from Super Energy Removal to Koga's Muk, nothing to freak out about AND who wouldn't want a Dragonair in their deck if they're not going to include Trainer cards such as Super Energy Removal.

    P.S. Dragonair is amazing!No weakness!Hyper Beam!Decent HP!And only two Double Colorless Energys to totally disarm your defenders that use attacks such as Firespin
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2003
  14. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Settle down, guys. I do use Super Energy Removal and/or Energy Removal in just about every deck I make. My latest version of this one has 3 Energy Removals and a Super Energy Removal. But, most of the decks I play against don't use attacks like Fire Spin. Besides, this is supposed to be a Basics-only deck (hence Aerodactyl). Now, please, comment specifically on this deck -- my version, preferably.
     
  15. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Here is version 2.0. Please do not use the top post as a basis for your comments. I had seen the combination of LC and AQ in a lot of Modified decks, and decided to try my own Unlimited version. This version should contend fairly well with the added difficulties from using this combination in Unlimited. Note that this is still my secondary deck -- "Dark Mewtwo", also posted in this forum, is my primary, and has a number of the good cards that would improve this deck.

    Pokemon (15):
    2 Chansey (Base)
    1 Cleffa (Promo)
    4 Grimer (Fossil)
    4 Muk (2 AQ, 2 LC/Fossil)
    1 Pichu (Genesis)
    2 Scyther (Jungle)
    1 Tyrogue (Discovery)

    Trainers (31):
    2 Bill
    2 Chaos Gym
    1 Computer Search :(
    2 Energy Removal
    2 Fisherman
    2 Focus Band
    3 Gold Berry
    2 Grass Cube 01
    2 Gust of Wind
    2 Nightly Garbage Run
    2 Oracle
    2 Professor Oak
    2 Sabrina's Gaze
    1 Super Energy Removal
    2 Switch
    1 The Rocket's Training Gym
    1 Town Volunteers

    Energy (14):
    4 Double Colorless Energy
    9 Grass Energy
    1 Warp Energy

    Strategy: While using Chansey to stall, get Muks set up on the Bench. Chansey also is useful as a cleaner, but should not attack often for obvious reasons. Scyther is my main damage hitter, but the real star is AQ Muk. If I can get enough (G) Energy on it, I can Poison and Burn the opponent fairly reliably. The Stadiums are used to help keep the opponent from switching Pokemon -- The Rocket's Training Gym to add to the Retreat Cost, or Chaos Gym to make Switches less likely to work. Scyther is there as anti-Tyrogue and as a backup hitter. I can also use Pichu to deal with enemy Pokemon Powers, while using Gold Berries to protect my Muks. This deck has a very high amount of draw power and discard rescue, and can actually be fairly effective at stalling out the opponent (at least against my primary deck).
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2003
  16. Lion_of_Darkness

    Lion_of_Darkness New Member

    With Chaos Gym, more Warp Energy would work better, mukman.
     
  17. dkates

    dkates New Member

    From the latest version (two posts above), I have made the following changes:

    -2 Grass Cube 01
    +1 Sabrina's Gaze
    +1 Energy Removal
     
  18. surfingpika

    surfingpika New Member

    Since this deck uses 31 trainers, chaos gym is not a good idea at all. If you must use chaos gym though you should take out the switches for warp points. If at all possible, you might want to switch all of your ngr with Town volunteers. There are very few situations where you'll need to put more than 5 cards in your deck at once. What you might want to try is Fossil Koffing and R/S Weezing. Weezing has posion and bench damage for GC and possible confusion for G. This might help with the switching problem, because if everything on their bench is torn apart, they aren't likely to switch to them, espically in R/S rules.
     
  19. dkates

    dkates New Member

    How I wish I could, but I only own one Warp Point. Excellent idea, though.
    Again, wish I could, can't. Although, the super-high amount of power I have to put cards back in the deck is one of the best points of this deck -- it's basically a type of Stall deck.
    Never seen that Weezing. I have few R/S cards, and even fewer good ones.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2003
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