The art of shuffling...?

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by Naki Feralkin, Mar 6, 2008.

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  1. Naki Feralkin

    Naki Feralkin New Member

    Forgive me if this does not belong here, but this is an issue I feel I must address as it is starting to plague me with each passing tournament.

    I am a victim of bad first round hands. If it were the deck, then I would have Kingdra and R-gon both to blame in this aspect. Very rarely have I had a moment where I do not see clump, yet I shuffle and shuffle and shuffle some more before my first round begins, yet I always get stuck with seeing something I do not want to see in my hand. I know its not a random issue either, lest I would not be getting 4 Banette's in my hand the second game I play (for fun) with no supporters and very minimal energy.

    Is there something I am doing wrong? Is there some goofy reason I always get stuck with hands like this on the first round? I shuffle as much as possible, yet still suffer from the demon known as clump. This happened to me when I played M:TG too. Very seldom do I win these first rounds because of it and its starting to become a nuisance.

    Is there any way to remedy this curse?
     
  2. Gyarados11

    Gyarados11 New Member

    One of the best ways to get a consistent shuffle is to first split your deck into its three components (Pokemon, Trainer, Energy) then lay-out on the table six cards or so from the top of your Pokemon pile. Continue to lay-out into these piles rotating your components until you run out of cards. Stack your piles together, shuffle normally a few times and call it good.
     
  3. Burninating_Torchic

    Burninating_Torchic New Member

    There are a few shuffles people use to ensure that they get random starting hands.
    Mine:
    1. Seperate the deck into Pokemon, Trainers, and Energy. Put them in one pile, just make sure it's divided into three sections.
    2. Five-pile the deck (Put the top card in one pile, the next in another, etc, when you've made five piles, start over at pile #1. Repeat until there are five piles of 12 cards each)
    3. Stack the five piles on top of eachother
    4. Repeat steps 2-3
    5. Do a few regular shuffles to prove to your opponent that you're not stacking the deck

    There are lots of variations, but most players do use some form of pile shuffling to ensure randomness.
     
  4. Acril

    Acril New Member

    I say dont even both with splitting into three components. just shuffle as normal, then divide into 6 stacks (in which you put cards in the stacks in random order) and bring back together.
     
  5. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    You need to be very careful using this appoach since a judge or player could claim you were "stacking" your deck, which would be illegal and cheating. IF you do this, you had better be doing tru riffle shuffling after this and again in the presence of your oppo. before you present the deck for a cut or shuffle during set up.

    I'd recommend doing a 6 pile shuffle. With a deck check at the start of a tourney, all your Pokes will be in a clump and the same woth trainers and energy. If you just slap piles around or some riffle shuffes will not truly randomize the deck. Do a 6 pile shuffle. Pick those up, riffle shuffle a few times and then do another 6 pile shuffle. That should get things mixed up.

    You can practice this at home or league. See how mixed the deck gets after 1 pile shuffle and a few riffles. Then do it 2X and check. Then 3X. You will see a difference.

    Good luck!

    Keith
     
  6. skarmory777

    skarmory777 New Member

    Kinda off the topic I think there should be something against people cutting the deck so you get the VERY BOTTOM 7 cards of your deck.
     
  7. metagross

    metagross New Member

    umm why? Those bottom 7 cards are as random as the top 7 cards... (it would suck though if you stacked your deck and got your god hand made into prizes.. but if you did that, its only right you get screwed over by that cut)
     
  8. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    I make sure that the cards don't stick together is to after doing some over hand shuffling, look through your deck and make sure the cards aren't in clumps. Then afterwards just give it a good shuffle so its not stacked. BTW when you do this you should tell your opponent what your doing so they don't think your stacking your deck.
     
  9. chriscobi634

    chriscobi634 New Member

    over shuffling can be a bad thing too as i realized this weekend. I did a lot more shuffling then I normally do before my T2 game, and guess what I prized my tech, Magnezone in Tsunami vs. G/G.
     
  10. rhodesia123

    rhodesia123 New Member

    i dont think having a tech prized is overshuffling, its just bad luck
     
  11. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    Ya, I was also having that problem. Thats when I decided to pile shuffle, look through the deck, and seperate
    cards that are stuck together, and do a quick overhand afterwards.
     
  12. Naki Feralkin

    Naki Feralkin New Member

    I 6 pile all the time. I did it about 3 times while riffling single piles and other such shuffles. I still get this problem.
     
  13. chriscobi634

    chriscobi634 New Member

    my way of shuffling is after I have organized my deck for a deck check is:

    do 3 regular shuffles.

    then 6 pile.

    3 regular shuffles

    then 6 pile

    final 3 regular shuffles.
     
  14. Zezeta

    Zezeta New Member

    The thing that I always seem to do is pull the same cards when I mulligan. Apparently I don't separate my hand well enough because I shuffle my hand into my deck, shuffle a little bit, let my opponent cut, and then I proceed to draw almost the exact 7 cards that I had before. I've gotten better about this though and I haven't continued to mulligan as bad as I use to.
     
  15. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    prime number pile shuffles FTW.

    The only thing wrong with too much shuffling is that it takes too much time.

    During a game the primary purpose of the shuffle is to destroy the players knowledge of the next few cards on top and bottom. It is not a full randomisation.

    A properly shuffled deck WILL have clumps. The absence of clumps is an indicator of shenanigins/insufficient shuffling. A properly shuffled deck will fail you sometimes.
     
  16. SuperWooper

    SuperWooper New Member

    I know you're a math guy, NoPoke, so I'm curious... Is this just a thing of yours, or is there some mathematical basis for prime number piles? I'm always on the lookout for new ways to shuffle.
     
  17. fchangus2

    fchangus2 New Member

    I've always wonder whether you're allowed to do this? So, after a shuffle, are you allowed to look through your deck and manually separate the clumps (say 3 rare candies clumped together)? Do you do this as part of the setup in front of your opponent or are you doing this before sitting down at the table?
     
  18. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    You can check your deck for clump prior to the match or even while doing a search for say, Celios or Roseanne's. If you see a clump, move them around. You will still be doing a shuffle in front of your oppo anyway once the search is completed. The oppo can also cut or briefly shuffle the deck after a search too.
     
  19. sparkee

    sparkee New Member

    Think about it, if your goal is to not have clumps, and you do something to make that happen, you are stacking the deck. Plain and simple. People confuse what is truly random with what they consider to be random (evenly distributed, no clumps).
    If "over shuffing" hurts you, chances are that your attempt to manipulate the distribution got messed up by actually doing a good shuffling.

    Trust me, you don't want me to catch you sorting in between rounds and then doing a pile shuffle to now put them in a energy-poke-trainer pattern.

    My gut feeling is that you are doing a good job shuffing and randomizing, and it could be that most others are just better at [DEL]stacking[/DEL] shuffling the odds in their favor.
     
  20. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    The oppo cannot count out the cards for a cut. It has to be a direct cut. If they do this, call the judge bc this is an error.

    Keith
     

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