The Compendium is a piece of crap and TC is blocking access to PUI

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by PokePop, Feb 12, 2004.

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  1. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    OK, let's get it out here.
    Obviously, some people feel this way. But how many?

    Should we hang up our Pokedexes and let other, more capable members of the community fill the void?
    I know we certainly aren't the only members of the community working to promote the game and, in many cases, not the hardest working.

    All we are is a bunch of online friends that saw a need a tried to fill it.
    WotC seemed to appreciate it.
    PUI seems to appreciate it.
    A couple of Pokemon players seem to appreciate it.

    On the other hand, some seem to take umbrage that we (and not them, presumably) have gotten "special consideration" and they could do it better.

    Maybe they could. So, should we step aside? Stop hogging PUI's attention? Let them release some rulings (that we bounced back to Japan for reconsideration) that would have thrown many well established game concepts out the window for the sake of one card?

    These boards, obviously, don't meet the needs of the community. We've suckered people into sticking around when "true Pokegym" boards would be better. A board where PUI could get truely ripped as they so justly deserve. And it would serve the purpose of getting them to realize how horribly they're doing and when they've seen the light, they stop it and fix themselves up.
    We were wrong to try to create a community that PUI would see as welcoming and one that they would want to interact with. One that they could pick reasoned discourse off of to try to influence things the way the community wants, like with the promo thread.
    We'll correct that. We've seen the light.
    Eeyore's methods have much better success than Pooh's.
    So, how soon should we drop all this stuff to clear the way for the right boards and the right rulings document?
     
  2. farbsman

    farbsman New Member

    I honestly love this message board and the Compendium. The only reason I have my own message board is so players from my area can communicate better with each other. That and my future Duel Masters, Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh players wanted a message board too.

    I think you guys/gals are doing a great job. I figure if other players don't like it, there is nothing making them stay here or making them use the rulings you so nicely provide us. People want to complain to the makes of the game, then call Japan, PUI is just does what they are told. I don't know what I would do without TC.

    Probably a little late, but I would like to thank you for all you do. I don't know of any other games where something like this exists.
     
  3. Gym Leader Blaine

    Gym Leader Blaine <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/member.php?u=15

    For me personally, it is a nice thing to have. I get a copy of it every month to have on record when there is a rule question at tournaments that I have not thought of that a play might ask.
     
  4. RainbowRichards

    RainbowRichards Active Member

    HUH!?!?

    Where's THIS coming from???

    Obviously I've missed something (and that's pretty hard to do as concerns the 'Gym), but I can think of no better resource which does or can do what is done here at pokegym.net by the hard-working and (obviously) un-appreciated TC crew!!!

    I believe this so vehemently, that I am (AFAIK) the only member who has actaully put his/her money where their mouth is - having contirbuted $$$ via PayPal in an unsolicited donation to pokegym.net.

    I print and refer to the pre-POP Compendium, as I do the "Compendium EX", during League/tournaments. Can't get that info anywhere else!

    "Hang it up?" - NO WAY

    "Appreciated?" - DEFINITELY

    "Go away?" - BETTER NOT, OR...

    Excelsior, and 'nuff said :D!







    BTW, this probably belongs in RTC, but who am I to sprinly salt in the wound? ;)
     
  5. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    The WotC chat was the best way for us to get rulings hands down. But I'm not going to say that having a team ask them for us is any worse.
     
  6. P_A

    P_A Active Member

    Woah, there, Woah there! Let's back the train up! Please, let's just think this one over a little longer. Sure there are some dissenters. Let's face it, there always will be. And I'm sure you realize, no matter how much hard work is put into ANY project, thre's always going to be someone that either doesn't like it, or feels they can do better. Please don't let them dampen your enthusiasm for the good work you have accomplished. Although we, as a community, don't express it as much, we really do appreciate all the hard work and dedication you've shown. Please by all means, keep up the good work! If you need some help, I'll be more than happy to give you any support I can manage, and so will many, many others. You have more support than you realize.
     
  7. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Oh, we agree. We have pushed for them to have an open chat.
    So, the choice isn't the old WotC-style open chat vs. the Rules Team chat we set up.
    The choice is our Rules Team chat or nothing...unless someone else manages to finagle some kind of regular rulings meeting.
    I don't think a lot of people quite get that...
     
  8. RainbowRichards

    RainbowRichards Active Member

    Likewise!
     
  9. onederlnd

    onederlnd Administrator Emeritus

    It's all about listening to the community. Now, I know that we can't always do what the Pokemon fans want, but there is always that need to listening to the pokemon community (which the admins of this board do a decent job of). I personally feel that when it comes to the rulings of the game, the community should of course be involved, but to a point. For instance, the weekly chats that Wizards Of The Coast ran. I think one of the drawbacks nowdays is that the only chat involves TC and PUI. Players have always been able to ask their ruling questions, but not directly. Most players would like the ability to ask their questions DIRECTLY to PUI and not have a medium such as TC.

    I'm kinda of confused why you say "ruling team or nothing" ... Is it that PUI doesn't want to setup a chat? or something else? I mean, there are alternative means to setting up a chat. One of the best being IRC. I'm aware that most of the admins aren't too fond of IRC, but when it comes to rulings and such, that would actually be one of the best choices if another chat system is not available.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2004
  10. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Right. Like with the Message Board on the Pokemon-TCG site which has yet to materialize, a regulat chat, let alone weekly, is in 'future' plans and is not going to happen anytime soon.
    It's not for us (TC) to set up or run a chat. We have what we have (a limited, weekly Rulings Meeting) at the sufference of PUI and it can be pulled from us at a moments notice. We are not in control. Which is understandable, really.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2004
  11. Orange Soda

    Orange Soda New Member

    Bah.

    It's kinda like me and my floor's chalkboard. In my inability to access the internet for very long this semester, I made a minor hobby of writing various witticisms on my floor's chalkboard (which otherwise would go more or less unused). I thought the stuff was funny. My friends all thought the stuff was funny. But for some reason, there'd always be someone who'd erase and/or write over part of it when I wasn't looking with some rather unimaginative drivel, completely ruining my awesome joke, and usually consisting of something that would only be appreciated by a middle-school level sense of humor.

    I once wrote a rhetorical question up there, something to the effect of "Don't you hate it when someone makes an awesome joke, then someone else tries to add to that joke, but what he said was something stupid, thus ruining the whole thing?" I later found the question erased and replaced with a large and semi-cartoony "NO!". I decided to give up trying to convince them, and turned the response into a picture of a picketer.

    Point is, there'll always be morons who delight in stirring up trouble, no matter how illogical their arguments may seem. Just ignore them.
     
  12. P_A

    P_A Active Member

    That may be true onederland, but sometimes the wotc chat seemed to be a bit of a zoo, with people asking the same questions over and over again. This way the answers are all packaged and tho it takes longer sometimes, the end result is well worth the slight wait (or the longer wait). In any case, to stop now would not be productive, and honestly, few people could fill your shoes.
     
  13. onederlnd

    onederlnd Administrator Emeritus

    The point was that an open chat is the best way to accomplish what the topic of this is. Players and members of this board are, to my knowledge, angry at the fact that they don't have any direct contact with PUI in asking questions.

    It is understandable, yes. But if we're going to look at it as PUI wanting to broaden the game and make their players happy, they need to listen to what they have to say (not that they aren't).

    I'm sure that PUI wouldn't want to run a weekly meeting, which is fine. But something. Monthly even... THAT is what players are looking for. I'm sure most people would be happy with a public chat once every month.
     
  14. onederlnd

    onederlnd Administrator Emeritus

    I never said that WotC ran their chats perfectly. With a public chat you need to realize that you will get the same questions over and over again. There needs to be some moderation.
     
  15. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    yah, I agree with RainbowRichards. I don't see where this is coming from...

    Regarding the Compendium, I absolutely see it as necessary. I truly appreciate the effort put in to maintain it.

    This "pseudo Pokegym" is wonderful. Hopefully, PUI feels the same.

    IMO, it would be nice if PUI delegated rulings to TC and we didn't have to wait for responses like we do know. I figure TC knows the game as good as anybody except for maybe the Japanese developers. If TC wants to assume this enormous responsibility, I think it would "go miles" to improving the Compendium. However, I doubt PUI will go this far.
     
  16. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    And we all agree, 100%!
    But, again, having hard feelings about us, and the small chat we have managed to arrange, isn't going to get PUI to start up such a chat.

    To make a point: Not one topic has been started, on this or any other board that I'm aware of (can only speak of that) to try to gather support and influence PUI to have such a chat. We have a long topic on Mulliganing which has a much smaller chance of getting a change made by PUI. Such a topic, if it included well written and positive arguments, might actually have an impact. Badmouthing TC won't get a new chat going, that's for sure.
     
  17. Pokeplayer

    Pokeplayer New Member

    I personnaly support The Compendium...

    I find it really helpful to make correct rulings...

    I try to download the latest Comendium and Team Rules meetings tha Sensei posts....

    Long Live the Compendium!!!

    Pokeplayer
     
  18. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Onederlind: That's nice that your talking for the players and members of this board. I myself am one of those and would like to say, please don't include me on anything you say because I feel totally different.

    I know I miss the chat and all, but the way it works now is just as good in my opinion. Sure we don't get to communicate with PUI ourselves, but if TC asks PUI our questions exactly the way we wrote them, what is the difference between that and the way the old chat worked? Instead of us adding our question to a pool of questions that will be asked to the officials one by one automated, we now add our question to a pool of questions that will be asked to the officials one by one by TC. I know that without TC, we would have been lost in the past PreReleases and CC's.

    Do I think that TC should stop what they are doing? Heck no! Maybe some things could be changed but even if they can't be changed, there is no reason to stop. People take for granted what is given to them for free. That's a simple rule of life.

    About the things I would like to be seen changed would be the use of older rulings to rule newer rulings. I mean I see alot of people ask questions and TC rules them according to old WotC rulings. Sure, sometimes they ask them in the chat anyways, but I think with a new company making the cards, the old WotC rulings should have no infuence on the newer rulings. I mean, we don't know how many of the rulings from WotC was based off of what WotC thought and not what TPC said. I know that we don't want to ask the same questions to PUI over and over, but once we get one ruling from them, we can influence other new rulings kinda like we do now with the older WotC rulings. But that's not even a biggy.

    I rather have TC keep doing the exact same thing they are doing now than for them to try to change to please anyone, because there will always be someone not happy.
     
  19. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Thanks Prime.
    Yeah, that's a good point and one we've considered. The main reasons we try not to go back over ground already covered by existing rulings, is that we have limited time in the rulings meeting and usually wind up using a lot of it going deeply into what rulings we do cover, PUI doesn't want to upset existing rules frameworks if they can help it, so we usually review related WotC rulings anyway, and finally, PUI is not familiar with cards released before R&S and pretty much want to leave those cards alone, if they can help it.
    On the other hand, it does make players have to keep both versions of the Compendium handy, so... how do people feel about this? Want new rulings as much as possible, or want old rulings to stand as much as possible?
     
  20. RainbowRichards

    RainbowRichards Active Member

    The WotC-era Compendium will stand a the definitive reference for a long time to come.

    When you run out of things to discuss in your meetings, go ahead and re-look the old stuff ;).
     
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