The dark problem

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by adrianmew2, Aug 26, 2003.

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  1. adrianmew2

    adrianmew2 New Member

    1) how does the dark energy works in the new rules?

    does its effect it only works for one turn or until the pokemon gets knocked out. can somebody explain me?
    :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2003
  2. To put it all basically:

    Under the new rules, Darkness Energy only lends its special effect to Dark Pokemon, or Pokemon with Dark in their name. If it is attached to say, a Water Pokemon, it will NOT allow them to do an extra 10 damage with their attack.

    The same goes for it's Poison-like effect. Under the new rules, if you put a Darkness Energy on (For example) Slakoth, Slakoth will NOT take damage inbetween turns anymore. (But again, neither will it be allowed to DO extra damage)

    [EDIT - That's WilyREPLOID to you.]
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2003
  3. BPM

    BPM New Member

    Darkness Energy only affects Darkness Pokémon now (and Pokémon with Dark in their names). If it isn't Dark/Darkness, then it only provides one Energy. No added damage for attacks, no "poison".

    And like with all card rewordings, these new rulings affect older printings of Darkness Energy. Or at least that's what I'm told.

    Also, on a related note, Metal Energy now only provides the -10 defense for Metal Pokémon. Non-Metal Pokémon get no special effects from this. Would work like a single Colorless Energy for them.

    [edit]That blasted Wilybot beat me to it.[/edit]
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2003
  4. Carrington388

    Carrington388 New Member

    Simply put, under the new rules, the only thing Darkness and Metal provide to off-type Pokémon is that color Energy (reference Sharpedo).
     
  5. adrianmew2

    adrianmew2 New Member

    Thanks for replying. To get rid of this confusion I have an example.
    If I'm using Mightyena's Bite 20 does the attack goes up to 40 with 2 dark enegies? :rolleyes:
     
  6. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    That is correct.
     
  7. Omega Ant

    Omega Ant New Member

    consider it as a continious plus power that gives you dark energy . It will only add damage if the attack does any damage to the defending pokemon .
     
  8. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    I think that is wrong Omega... The new Darkness says that it adds adds ten damage. It is no longer conditional upon doing damage in the first place.

    So if you have a Dark Pokémon that does no damage it WILL do ten damage with a single Darkness energy attached.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2003
  9. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Technically, that falls under "unwritten rules." One of them is you can't add damage to an attack that does none. In other words, Omega's right.
     
  10. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    hmmm, that was always true under Wotc but that isn't the case under Nintendo.. page 17 of the R&S rulebook..

    Note that the rulebook instructs you to check darkness before checking if the base damage is zero. If the intention is that attacks without a number are unaffected by darkness then the english is poor.

    Its not even an academic question since Poocheyena's Knock Off attack require 1 dark and does no damage. So with a rainbow energy it does NO damage but with a Darkness Energy it does 10.
     
  11. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Exactly, NoPoke. Under Wizards, you always added PlusPower, Strength Charm, Darkness Energy, etc. after checking whether there was a base damage to begin with. By following the sequence as you mentioned in the Nintendo rulebook, that rule is broken, allowing non-damage attacks to become damage attacks. Bad precedent, Nintendo! My guess is that either a ruling will be issued or, when the next set comes out, the rulebook will be edited to weed out that important technicality.
     
  12. drackmere

    drackmere New Member

    Re: The Rule Debate
    I don't think there is anything to fix.

    In both the Nintendo (EX Ruby & Sapphire) and the Wizards (version 10) rulebooks, the following statements exist in step b) of How Do You Figure Out the Damage?

    "Then if the base damage is 0 (or if the attack doesn't do any damage at all), just stop figuring the damage. You're done now. Otherwise, keep going."

    These statements would seem to stop the rest of the damage process. Furthermore, since you would never get to the step where you would place 1 damage counter for every 10 damage the attack ends up doing, an attack that does no damage would still do no damage even if the effect of a Darkness Energy, PlusPower, or Strength Charm would 'alter' it.

    Re: Darkness Energy
    It has not been touched on in this topic, but I think it is important to note that the damage additions (that Darkness Energy, PlusPower, Strength Charm, and other effects add to a damaging attack) are applied before Weakness and Resistance under Nintendo's rules. This may not have the largest effect, but it is a change from the old system.

    For example, take a Base Hitmonchan with 1 PlusPower attached using Jab against an Electabuzz with Fighting Weakness.

    Under Wizard's rules, Hitmonchan would do 50 damage (20*2+10).
    Under Nintendo's rules, Hitmonchan would do 60 damage ((20+10)*2).
     
  13. Carrington388

    Carrington388 New Member

    That makes Neo Discovery Tyrogue with Strength Charm and Neo Genesis Sneasel with two genuine Darkness even more deadly under Nintendo's rules against Weakness. Let's break those two down:

    Wizards Tyrouge w/Strength Charm vs. Weakness: Heads flip required; 30 base * 2 (Weakness) = 60 + 10 for Strength Charm = 70 total damage
    Nintendo Tyrogue w/Strength Charm vs. Weakness: Heads flip required; 30 base + 10 for Strength Charm = 40 * 2 (Weakness) = 80 total damage

    (NOTE: Both Sneasel scenarios assume at least one heads)
    Wizards Sneasel w/2 Darkness against Weakness: 20 times flip base = 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, or 120 * 2 (Weakness) = 40, 80, 120, 160, 200, or 240 + 20 (for Darkness) = 60, 100, 140, 180, 220, or 260 total damage
    Nintendo Sneasel w/2 Darkness against Weakness: 20 times flip base = 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, or 120 + 20 (for Darkness) = 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, or 140 * 2 (Weakness) = 80, 120, 160, 200, 240, or 280 total damage
     
  14. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Of course, since so few Pokemon have Darkness Weakness at all, and most of those Pokemon have 80 HP or less anyway, only a few of them would have survived a single-heads Beat Up even under Wizards rules. But that little "technicality" can still be a big deal. After all, 10HP sometimes makes the difference between a win and a loss.
     
  15. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Not hard to see why Darkness only works on dark type/named pokemon now. A single darkness energy will add 20 damage if your opponent is weak to your attacker. Tyrogue flips heads and does 80 to electric pokemon: OUCH!

    wonders if there are going to be more Dark name pokémon in future Nintedo printed sets????
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2003

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