The Don Ho deck

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Dendrobatida, Oct 21, 2003.

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  1. Dendrobatida

    Dendrobatida New Member

    After three weeks or so of playing with fairly slow supporter-reliant decks, I decided to say "hang it" and go for something a little quicker, with a nastier edge. This suited my style just fine, though in this new format, it's painfully risky to play, especially since it lacks alot of recovery power. That's cool, though, because the point of this deck isn't to battle over fifteen rounds and win on the score cards. It'll either sweep through anything the opponent has, or be too slow starting and get hung up. That's what makes it so fun in league play, but too risky to pull out for tournaments...yet...

    Pokemon:

    4 marill (SS-free retreat)
    4 Azumarill (SS)
    4 Dunsparce (SS)
    Total: 12

    Trainers:

    4 seer
    4 fast ball
    4 potion
    4 juggler
    1 town volunteer
    2 fisherman
    Total: 19

    Energy:

    29 water energy

    Two things are going to happen turn one; either you'll pull a dunsparce, or you'll pull a marill. Either is fine, since turn three is what we're shooting for. If marill, attach energy, and pass. If dunsparce, attach energy, strike and run, get all your marill out. Turn two, evolve the marill of your choice, attach another energy, and drizzle whatever you've got in your hand (hopefully after a seer or juggler) onto Azumarill. Turn three, beat the snot out of your opponent with about 6 flips or so for 30 damage on each heads (average 90 per turn). Heal that azumarill with potions when necessary.

    It's fast, but brittle, so be careful. As soon as your opponent gets something going that can deal 70 per turn, it's over. You just need to make sure you're going quicker: by the time the opponent finishes reeling from the first punch, you've got to have another azumarill ready to step in for the one your opponent just ko'ed.

    In playtesting this past weekend, I won seven and lost three with this deck. All three of those losses came to Gymbo's turbo linoone deck (wait...maybe it was linoone with omastar backup...I can't remember precisely :D ), and two were as a result of two pokes I had in there but should not have: Lapras -ex and chansey -ex. I love chansey in my sceptile tech, since it does that magical 80 to knock out all the stage ones out there. Here, though, those two tended to creep up as my lone starting active, which absolutely kills this deck. Three turns to retreat the darn thing is three turns too many. This deck needs to be hitting for major damage by then. I considered a few root or claw fossils, and am still considering them.

    The most obvious danger to this deck is gardevoir, since piling six or so energy on azumarill guarantees gardevoir an instant knockout. Unfortunately, the best strategy you have is to go ahead and do it anyway, hoping that they won't turn-two-rare-candy the beast up to gardevoir before you get a chance to drizzle. Don't worry about sceptile: you'll be able to beat through the resistance pretty easily.

    I enjoyed playing this, because you're never energy burnt, and it makes for some quick games. Plus, who doesn't like flipping (rolling) seven coins (dice) for one attack? That's funnage.

    Suggestions cheerfully taken, though bear in mind the purpose of the deck...Consider it what would be the result of a relationship between entei-cargo and sneasel, with blastoise acting as midwife. Yes, I could pair it with swampert, but then it becomes a swampert deck with azumarill as backup. Same thing with wailord. I'm sure there's some wonderful decks out there with combinations like that, but I'll leave those for other folks to post. This is turbo azumarill in the truest sense.

    Individual card suggestions:

    -Use seer even when you don't need it. For this deck, it can be used in those first three turns to really crank up the damage. Later on, though, it rocks as a deck thinner, helping to offset the sheer amount of water energy necessary to facilitate speed here. Essentially, you'll be drawing those potions and jugglers more often if you seer every time you can.

    -When you get a water energy, lay it down. If you can drizzle, do it. When the water is in your hand, get it onto the board, or else you risk giving your opponent a 10-card copycat.

    -Don't be afraid to have 3 dunsparce on the bench. They're great stall.

    -Good first turn combo: Juggler with two, attach to dunsparce, strike and run, keep dunsparce active. Next turn, attach to benched marill, evolve, retreat dunsparce, use fisherman to pick up the three water in the discard, drizzle 'em down.

    Cheers,

    Jake
     
  2. Dendrobatida

    Dendrobatida New Member

    oh, yeah: Don Ho: semi-famous Vegas lounge singer who had a middling hit song entitled "Tiny bubbles". Get it?
     
  3. cattdreams

    cattdreams New Member

    all things considdered, I'd add in some energy switchs to move energy where it's needed.
     
  4. SwampertEX

    SwampertEX New Member

    Try a holo Swampert line so you don't have to waste an attack. Then add evo trainers to get things going. And how exactly do you benifit from Dunsparcewhen you only have 1 type?
     
  5. Dek

    Dek New Member

    I suggest adding in some switches and maybe 2 or 3 Zangoose (even though Zangoose has nothing to do with little bubbles, buts its a good BBP to use).
     
  6. HYPER EEVEE

    HYPER EEVEE Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    you need copycats
     
  7. BLiZzArD

    BLiZzArD New Member

    Love the idea I've also been toying around with it and here's what I came up with

    17 pokemon

    4 Marill
    4 Azumarill
    4 Dunsparce
    3 Skitty(minor Errand Running)
    2 Delcatty(SS)

    16 Trainers

    2 Town Volunteers
    4 Fast Ball
    2 Fisherman
    4 Seer
    4 Juggler


    27 Energy

    27 Water
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2003
  8. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    No comment...just no comment...

    Great deck man, seriously. Very fast, and if it gets going it is insane. Perhaps a Desert Shaman? Just to use after you get set up, as disruption. Like how it was used back in the first MF. Slow their start down..
     
  9. HYPER EEVEE

    HYPER EEVEE Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    you really dont need 4 dunsparce because if you use all once then youd have 16 pokemon first thats not leagal second you dont have that many basics try 2 and 2 azurill
     
  10. lugia

    lugia New Member

    Take out some of the water energy for something like Kyogre EX
     
  11. Dendrobatida

    Dendrobatida New Member

    Thanks for the responses, all. Here's some replies for you:

    Catdreams: I could use energy switch, but why do that when I could just take up the space with actual energy, and attach from my hand? I'm only running the one type of energy anyway.

    SwampertEX: Check the original post...I address the swampert issue there. I'm not sure I understand your comment about dunsparce and one type. Dunsparce does not equal lanette's net search...

    Arthas: I considered switch, but everything in the deck either retreats for free or for one, which, after that second turn drizzle, doesn't really matter. I'll happily blow one energy to retreat, and besides, I hope to not have to retreat much. Zangoose is nice, but to start with one would slow the deck down. Can't do it. If this deck is working by turn five, or six, it's too slow. Needs to be turn three to be truly effective.

    Hyper Eevee: Copycat's a nice card, but the exchange of hands it, or any other "shuffle n' draw" trainer can provide really isn't as critical here. You never need worry about obtaining enough water energy...trust me, it'll be there. That means there's really only two cards you need: Marill and azumarill. Marill will automatically be active or on your bench by turn two, because you'll either start with it, or dunsparce'll get it for you. That leaves azumarill as the only card that might prove difficult to get. Chances are good that you'll start with either an azumarill or a fast ball. I could add prof. elm's training method or wally's training, just for more security....

    Blizzard: You've gone card drawing over healing and pure speed, and I can appreciate that. Any addition of something like delcatty might slow the deck down too much for me (Agggg! Starting with a lone skitty kills meh!), but let me know how you fare with it. I'm too speed-driven to take delcatty, since it reduces the effectiveness of fast ball, which is critical in the deck. Weird that a great card drawer would actually slow this deck down too much, isn't it?

    T666: Thanks. Any praise from players of your calibre is appreciated. Shaman is an idea, since it slows the opponent down (which, here, is just as important as speeding yourself up). You'd only really need two, and I suppose I could part with one or two of the 29 water energy I have in there....I like it. It'd also be effective in nullifying opponent card advantage after the several mulligans you're likely to get playing only 8 basics.

    Hyper Eevee again: I'm really not sure I understand your last post at all. You might want to read sandstorm dunsparce again....

    Lugia: The addition of any huge basic pokemon would be deadly to this deck. Kyogre is powerful, but if you start with it, or it becomes active somehow, you lose your speed advantage, and thus the advantage of this deck. Like zangoose, Lapras -ex, chansey -ex, or any other heavy hitter, it'd be great to have it mellowing on the bench just in case. However, that's not outweighed by the danger of starting with that big sucker as your lone beginning basic. In playtest this past week, each time I started with a BBP as my active, I got creamed by a fast and well-played Omastar deck. Even with potion, this deck is low on recovery, because you'd need to take a turn in the middle of the game to drizzle. Your opponent won't give you that turn. It has to be a constant stream of azumarill: the starting one, which will last 7 or 8 turns, and then the next one which, by then, will have 4 or 5 energy attached and be ready to go. We're swarming here....

    Cheers,

    Jake

    Thanks for the suggestions, and keep 'em coming! Remember, the quest here is for speed....
     
  12. BLiZzArD

    BLiZzArD New Member

    your right it does hurt been play testing all night I dropped the Delcatty line and added 2 Shaman and 3 Azurill which helped alot getting me seer or Juggler and next turn evoing to marill just a thought let me know what you think
    BLiZ
     
  13. Dendrobatida

    Dendrobatida New Member

    Azurill is an interesting thought...On the one hand, I can see its effectiveness if you aren't comfortable playing with just 8 basics. On the other hand, though, with the need for speed here, I can't envision a turn in the game where I'd want to waste an opportunity to do damage in order to seek out one of the trainers. This extends even to the first turn. With just marill and dunsparce, it'll be 3rd turn azumarill with lots of water on there from turn two's drizzle. With azurill, it'll be third turn azumarill with first turn trainer draw, second turn para and ten, and third turn attack with three energy. For me, three energy isn't enough, and there's no trainer in here that I want badly enough early enough to waste one of the critical first three turns on getting. The healing effect of the evolution is nice, but for that to be effective implies that your opponent has already started hitting you before you got out even a marill. That isn't a good sign with this deck. Now, if this were old modified, you'd see the two pichu in the deck. You'd see the focus bands. Here, though, we don't have those options, so instead of trying to desperately find ways to replace them with inferior products, I decided to just strip the concept of deck down to the bare essentials. This deck doesn't possess any significant strategy beyond what I've already layed out, and that stuff's inherent in the design. In fact, your first three turns are mapped for you; you don't have any other options if you want to win consistently with this. Thus, I hesitate to bog it down with other pokemon. Trainers, though, is an interesting place to fool around with. I originally ran 4 fisherman. Didn't need that many. Shaman is a cool concept, since it doesn't affect the "engine", as it were.

    In describing this deck, I'm afraid I've given short shrift to marill itself, a wicked little basic if ever there was one. If your opponent has somehow out-quicked you, marill is the key to recovery. Get him out there and paralyze every turn until you have an azumarill ready to ko whatever is out there on the board. Marill=one bad, bad man. If you really want to use marill as an attacker, because of that attack, then azurill might be something to consider. If you prefer getting to azumarill as quickly as possible, then I'd avoid azurill. Either way, good luck, and keep me posted with how this does in your league.
     
  14. psycodad

    psycodad New Member

    Cool deck. A few ideas. I like boost for azumarill vs gadrvoir and for quick recovery. I also like warp point with free retreat marill. Otherwise, I would have to test it versus a few of the standard decks to comment more.
     
  15. SwampertEX

    SwampertEX New Member

    NO IT DOSEN'T! Azumarill completely takes over Swampert! Trust me I've tried it :rolleyes: Sorry 'bout the Dunsparce though... That's the only reason I haven't put Azumarill in my deck (Raindance ex, also on this thread;)). I would also try adding Azurill.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2003
  16. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    -_- Flattery...I like it :p But in all seriousness...lets see what I would do for an overall list here...

    4 Marril
    4 Azumarril
    4 Dunsparce

    29 Water

    4 Seer
    3 Desert Shaman
    4 Juggler
    4 Fast Ball
    4 Professor Birch

    Personally, Birch looks like it could be particularly WICKED in this deck. Thinka bout it. You use Azumarrils first attack...that dumps a LOT of water NRG into play. Fast Ball is an imediate play, and the evo card is played down..you can lay down all of your Pokemon as well...you will almost always have a very small hand, and Birch can refill it well. Give it a try, I dunno, Oaks Research may be better, I dont know.

    This deck is alot quicker than most decks, but the problem I see is that your opponent can easily sacrifice prizes while they build up. Your still in a solid position from that, but it gives them some recovery room. If Blaziken gets set up, it can really overwhelm you quickly. Gardevoir could be a problem too...Boost NRG may work in that match up though. You just need to be out quicker...and these match ups are assumed to NOT be involving Desert Shaman, which makes it anyones game, depending if they Topdeck.
     
  17. psycodad

    psycodad New Member

    Chris
    Birch works great with shaman and even better in this deck due to drizzle. I usually play 4 shaman 3 birch. I like fastball in a one evo deck. Non supported getting a for sure evo. Sic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2003
  18. SwampertEX

    SwampertEX New Member

    Now that I look at it, this deck aint half bad!;) Gr8 job!
     
  19. Dendrobatida

    Dendrobatida New Member

    Thanks, Swampert :) As Chris noted, flattery=good stuff.

    The two shaman are working well in playtesting; I haven't added the birch yet, since that requires (according to the above-offered decklist) dropping my original amount of 4 potion. The reason why I hesitate to do this is the reason why one plays something like birch in this type of deck: to draw situation-specific cards so that you have them when you need them. Situation-specific cards, to me, are like gust of wind, switch, and healing cards. There izzn't no gizzy of wizzy any mizzy, switch would be useless here, so if I take out the potion, what am I searching for? Another azumarill? More basics? More water energy (lol)? Maybe, but if I don't have those by the fourth or fifth turn, at the very, very latest, no amount of birch, shaman, research, or anything like that is going to save me. It'd be better, in my mind, to play cards that will allow me to search for those things specifically, like fan club or training method. Yeah, A birch can help in those early turns, but it's a supporter, and that'd mean not playing a seer or juggler in those first three critical turns. I'd rather discard two of my ridiculously plentiful water energy to draw 5 straight up, or snag another 3-4 water for the hand with seer than use birch in a situation where it won't help much: If I start with a hand of seven, and in that hand are enough cards to play early that I have a hand small enough to make birch playing worthwhile, then, ironically, I don't need birch. That's weird logic, but in the first few turns of this deck, if you're playing all the cards in your hand, you're set up, no card drawing necessary, unless you start with a hand of 7 basics, in which case, shuffle better.

    I'm not discounting the birchy potential, but in-game, I'd be using birch to get more stuff like potion into my hand....so I'm hesitant to drop that. I don't mind the idea of dropping the fisherman, though. Somehow, for this deck, there always seems to be enough water to go around. Nevertheless, I know it's hard to get away from the idea of the traditional draw engine (Must....must be able to shuffle and draw.....can't....can't not shuffle and draw.....). Let me know how birch works for you, and, though it takes a little while to describe, if you could detail a situation in the play of this deck where birch would be a difference-maker (over, say, 2 pokemon fan club and 2 professor elm's training method), that would help a great deal. Thanks for the continued input.

    Cheers,

    Jake
     
  20. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    As a matter of fact, I can detail those examples without even playing the deck before !:p

    First of all, you have a good point, but I think I have an even better counter point. One of the reasons I like to keep the draw power, even if as all supporters, so high is because so many times you may not draw one in your opening hand. With this deck needing speed, you are almost REQUIRED to have some form of draw power to fire off with. Yes, Birch may not be the BEST card for the job, but it is used the same reason Copycat was used in MMF. Yes, you would LOVE to always have an Elm, but you can only one four, and you need recovery and speed to be drawn more often than a 1 in 15 odds. Even Juggler, which increases it to 1 in 7.5 is not good enough, as you find often you run into no draw still. With no Cleffa, and no Delcatty in this list, you need to be extremely careful.

    So besides making sure you have access to draw, why else is it needed? Think of it this way...you fire off PERFECT. You attach a ton of NRG ( all in ur hand ) and have Azumarril out. Your left with 2-3 cards MAX. Your Azumarril dies. You pretty much lose. Birch replenishes your whole hand size with NRG. As I said, yes, some cards are better at it, and are included, but too often you will not have them, and the key now with this deck is maximizing consistancy.

    Also, we look at Potion. Tell ME when Potion will come in handy. Potion does not have enough of an effect with a 70 HP Pokemon in this format. If Azumarril did not die in one hit, it is either being picked at by something weak, meaning you pretty much have the game won anyways, or it takes enough damage on it so that even if you did Potion it, they could kill you next turn if it gets another attack off. I really do not see Potion having enough of an effect to be worth it. I would use Hyper Potion first really...your attaching SO much NRG that 1-2 energy off of it is expendable really.
     
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