The Infernal Eye

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by KingGengar, Sep 18, 2007.

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  1. KingGengar

    KingGengar New Member

    4 sableye CG

    4 chimchar
    2 monferno
    3 infernape
    1 infernape Lv.x

    1 skitty
    1 delcatty

    -- 16

    2 great ball
    2 mentor
    4 celio's
    3 rare candy
    4 windstorm
    2 steven's
    2 rowan
    1 team galactic
    1 copycat
    2 castaway
    2 buffer piece
    1 strength charm
    1 night maintenance

    -- 27

    13 fire
    4 dre

    -- 17

    STRATEGY: For starters, Sableye instead of Skitty. Eases the Mario donk, provides a quick T1 10+Disable, and allows Excavation to stoke the coal for Infernape Lv.x at all times, sometimes in multiple. Delcatty reduced to tech, which can be traded out for EX if so inclined. Typical (for me) Trainer setup, using Buffer Piece to add to Infernape's durability.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2007
  2. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    A counter to T2 Kricketune?? Just call this deck "allergy" bc you have red, burning eyes. HAH.

    As a suggestion....I always like at least 1 CC in a deck....my style I guess. Drop 1 stevens maybe for one? Noticed no TGW in this deck....may put one of those in instead of CC too. Hand disruption can be key mid/late game.

    Keith
     
  3. doctormcdreamy

    doctormcdreamy New Member

    your gonna want to increase your fire amount to something like 16 so you'll increase your chances of actually excavating it. :)
     
  4. KingGengar

    KingGengar New Member

    keith: yeah, Sableye is insane when it goes first. Definitely a great Kricketune, even Mario, counter. I can see the TGW but not the CC, since everything I run is basically Powers. On the TGW, I've kinda gotten away from it since I expect everyone else to run it for me! lol Maybe not...

    doctor: Should I drop the Plus Power for more Fire Energy?
     
  5. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    Tom: No reply to the name??? No one will call this deck "Infernal Eye".....Allergy.....I see it catching on.

    By CC, I mean copycat (draw/hand refresh), not cess crystal.

    Keith
     
  6. doctormcdreamy

    doctormcdreamy New Member

    it's hard to say what you should drop. but plus powers used to help infernape with ohko's but this generation of pokemon are gonna be harder for infernape to flareblitz ohko. so it would seem that the pluspower should be the first off the chopping block.
     
  7. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    I'd say drop the Buffer Piece. The only decks that would OHKO Infernape run Poke-Powers and those decks run Windstorm.

    3 Castaway is a little high IMHO. I'd run 2 with 1 TGW for disruption. It's also good late game as a way not to deck oneself and/or to get a nice 6 card hand full of fire lol.

    When I played Infernape, I found the Delcatty crucial to setting up. And it definitely helps get energy into the discard pile easier than Excavating it.

    I've liked Sableye in Infernape since the second I played Infernape at Nationals. It's a great card, but I think starting with it does take away from the chance to T2 someone or T1 if your going second.

    Oh yeah, noticed your not running any Night Maintenance. I think at least a 1 is needed so you can recycle the infernape lv.X.

    I'm going to look into a speed Infernape with Fast Ball myself.

    Also, I've been testing 3 Mentor and no great ball and it's been working decently. I would recommend looking into it. If it gets in the way, excavate it, LOL.

    edit: I also noticed you didn't run any Delcatty ex. Delcatty ex has saved my butt so many times as an alternative attacker. It also shuffles all the energy into the deck, which the only other way is Infernape lv.X (which doesn't happen much). It works great with plus power as a way to do small quick damage to KO something that wasn't OHKO'd by Infernape the turn before.
     
  8. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    Yeah, you need at least 1 NM or TSD in the deck w. the X. (and only a 1-1 line delcatty).

    Keith
     
  9. KingGengar

    KingGengar New Member

    Keith: Yeah, I do like the name "Allergy." But "Infernal Eye" just reminded me of LOTR. Maybe I'll change it soon. I can easily drop a Rowan for a Copycat, and a Steven for TGW, just for the heck of it, but also, as Matt said, the TGW might help the Fire Energy situation.

    doctor: yeah, I agree

    Matt: Well, the Buffer Piece to me is essential. Empoleon runs barely powers and I don't think any Windstorm, so I would take the chance.

    I agree with the TGW analysis but I would keep the Castaways simply as an alternate way to get Energy.

    You may be correct about Delcatty setup, but I'm a big believer in Mario, so I wouldn't put Skitty out there to lose. Also, having played very skilled opponent's using Ape, I can say that Delcatty EX doesn't impress me.

    Yeah, I missed the Night Maintenance, but I'm wondering if I'll even need it. In most Ape matchups, the Lv.x always comes out much later, and wins games, so NM seems unnecessary.

    I think Speed-Ape is a good idea :)

    I'm sure Mentor works fine, but I like Great Ball also - it's so nice to do that extra trainer per turn.

    Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

    I took advice:
    (a) changed Plus Power to 3 more Fire,
    (b) changed 1 Steven's to 1 Copycat
    (c) changed 1 Rowan to 1 TGW
    (d) changed 1 Castaway to 1 Night Maintenance
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2007
  10. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    So you want to win both matchups? Infernape is going to lose the Empoleon matchup, with or without Buffer Pieces. What's 20 less to Infernape when the opponent can do 100 (with Empoleon's second attack) or snipe the bench and make your buffer piece useless for the 1 turn it stays in play. Depending on the tech they run in the deck, they could even use Empoleon lv.X to hit Infernape for 110, which if it has any damage on it from previous turns, even with a buffer piece, will be KO'd. The deck runs Battle Frontier and Cessation Crystal, so your powers will often be off, and Infernape can't OHKO Empoleon. Empoleon is just a very bad matchup. I'd equate it Mario being a very bad matchup for Infernape too.

    On that subject, Mario is going to be a bad matchup, weakness or not. Disable helps a little, but sooner than later the Lucario swarm aspect of the deck takes over. And I said it's a bad matchup before Lucario lv.X comes out. How does this deck handle a Lucario hitting for 80 (maybe even more) with one turn of immunity? Not very well imho. I don't see Mario being super consistent though, so you can't guarantee the loss every time.

    I find that Infernape really only works if you can recycle the energy fast enough. If you run into a turn where you can't DRE for damage, you have hit a problem. That is where I would have Delcatty ex shuffle in energy to do 60-70 damage, and then free retreat next turn. Without it, you rely solely on Infernape to keep attacking. But that doesn't work if you run out of DRE and ways to keep it shuffled into the deck. Infernape might win a game every now and then on T2, but the same as with Riolu and the new format, that kind of thing is decreasing in occurrence. Infernape needs some late game help and that is where I found Delcatty ex helping the game at least get to that point.

    Also, 4 rare candy is pretty much the staple. You want to be able to get Infernapes out quickly, and with your version's less Delcatty (meaning less overall draw), you will need a easier way to get Infernapes on the field.
     
  11. KingGengar

    KingGengar New Member

    Maybe Empoleon isn't the best example of a matchup I can win. My point was in response to your statement "The only decks that would OHKO Infernape run Poke-Powers and those decks run Windstorm." Empoleon definitely fits the bill for a deck that can OHKO Infernape, as you point out. My statement was just meant to say that there are other decks out there besides Powers+ Windstorm which do this.

    About Mario, you're wrong. It *is* super-consistent. My Trainer Engine is now to the point where it runs as smooth as a Holon Engine. The only question is whether Infernape can outspeed Mario. Sableye definitely puts a crimp in Riolu, going first, so there is one extra turn to work with. If Mario goes first, it has the edge anyway against nearly every deck.

    About the Delcatty, you can't really say too much since you've already stated that you're working on "Speed Infernape" which I assume has no Delcatty at all. Otherwise, why call it "Speed Infernape?" If you even run 1-1 Delcatty EX, you've got the same setup as me (except for Sableye, of course), since I mention that you can trade out the Catty for the EX if you like. Which is it?

    I agree on the 4 Rare Candy, and I should probably trade a Windstorm since I'm not relying on powers in the extreme.
     
  12. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Your assumption would be wrong.

    I said I was going to look into a speed version of the deck, but if I did build it, it would most definitely have Delcatty. Delcatty is the veins of any Infernape deck and is vital in so many roles that I can't even phantom not using it with the deck. If I did replace it, it would be for another card that had a poke-power that went with the deck in some way. Maybe Blaziken PK or Typhlosion MT. Either way, Infernape cannot work on it's own.

    On the issue with your Mario, I doubt it quite a bit. There is no way in the current format to pull off a holon engine for the sole reason that no card in the format grabs a supporter from your deck and puts it in your hand and allows you to play it in that same turn. Scott can act *like* a Transceiver, but you slow yourself down because you can't play your supporter that same turn and it is very susceptible to Team Galaxy's Wager, which would make your Scott useless (if you got 3 supporters) if played. Your trainer engine might work decently, but because Mario relies 100% on trainers to set it up, it will never truly be consistent (in my opinion).
     
  13. KingGengar

    KingGengar New Member

    Well, then, how is it "Speed Infernape" if its the same as Inferncatty? or is it? You don't have to give away details, just say if it's different.

    Wrong on the Mario assumption. The only way I lose now is if opponent outspeeds me. Even Crobat (my new archenemy) will fall if I get going. For comparison, I consider Banette EX to be 3-4x as deadly as Crobat (Stage 2, disappears, different Resistance, weak to itself, etc).
     
  14. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    I only said I wanted to look into it. I don't even have a list wrote up or anything. It's not a secret, just an idea. On the idea of speed, you might be thinking of Speed Banette, how it ran 4 Sableye and was just used to do the maximum damage ASAP. But Infernape is a deck of a totally different structure and the only way you could possibly set it up so it did 90 damage every turn would be with Typhlosion/Blaziken refueling it every turn. So that would probably be how to make it a speed version. You'd probably run 4 Fast Ball and 4 Mentor (or a combination of Mentor and Great Ball -- Great Ball is Great is speed decks me thinks) and then 4 Rare Candy and 4 Celio (worry about Delcatty ex later) and other stuff. You wouldn't run any starter. Just 4 Chimchar and probably 3 or 4 Cyndaquil. I don't know all the details because like I said, it was just an idea.

    The only way you lose? Okay, I hope you win all your games.
     
  15. KingGengar

    KingGengar New Member

    Well, it's a decent idea. Maybe the name "Speed Infernape" can be dropped?

    Win all? If only..
     
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