"The Inside Scoop" Deck Discussion #1 = "LuxChomp" - Why is it SO good?

Discussion in 'Guru Deck Challenge & Strategy Topic Discussions' started by Rogue Archetype, Jan 17, 2011.

  1. flash2351

    flash2351 New Member

    9: Lucario gl is ur best fren in this matchup, making gdos 2x weak to luxray. The key to the gdos matchup imo is keeping track of your resources, knowing how many energy you have left to trash bolt with, how many poke turns you have left to flash bite for the last ko. Another thing i would recommend is not benching your lucario until its needed in case your opponent is running luxdos/high reversal count.

    10: Trainer lock decks are decks that prevent you from playing trainers. The most common deck is vilegar, which kicks off the initial lock either using spiritomb AR's poke-body or gastly SF's pitch dark, after which they set up a vileplume on the bench to keep up a constant lock. Vileplumes can also be combined with other decks such as victreebel, bellossom or even glaceon(looks at R_A xD), to use trainerlock to slow opponents while adding a added level of disruption in the form of locking ur opponent active/ power-locking.

    To beat vilegar, a luxchomp has to try and snipe the gloom before he evolves to vileplume hence disrupting his set up heavily. A t2 bright look on gloom/haunter can also break the trainer lock by sending spiritomb to the bench. After the vileplume is fully set up, u can set up a bright look followed by zen-blade from uxie x, or tackle by drifblim UD to knock out the vileplume, breaking the lock again. A key to this matchup is to avoid fainting spell as much as possible, hit the bench for all the cheap prizes first.

    Dialga G lv X would make this match up much easier, but with it you would need to play a high spray count, around 3 at least? This is because diagla shuts down vileplume's trainer lock, but gengar lv x can level down dialga, hence re-establishing the trainer lock. Ideally, u shld drop the dialga when u have a handful of trainers so as to empty them/ help u set up for the kill on vileplume, e.g. sp radar for luxray gl x, premier ball for uxie x, bright look his vileplume active, poketurn the luxray, attach dce to uxie x and zenblade for the ko.
     
  2. ShadowGuard

    ShadowGuard <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    Luxchomp is so good because it breaks almost every single basic rule of the game.
    Pokémon have to evolve to be strong? Not in Luxchomp.
    You need to have the amount of energy printed on the Pokémon card attached to it to attack? Not in Luxchomp.
    Your can't just take back your Pokémon to your hand? Luxchomp can.
    Your opponent can use powerful Poké-Powers? Not against Luxchomp.
    You can't just move energy around? Luxchomp can.
    Pokémon do the amount of damage printed on the card? Luxchomp can do more (Crobat).
    You can't choose which Pokémon your opponent has active? Luxchomp can.
    Weakness is calculated as printed on the card? Not for Luxchomp.

    Vilegar is the most popular deck that locks trainers. The most important thing is - get rid of Vileplume. Best way is to use Bright Look, and attack with Flash Impact. Since it has two retreat, your opponent would need Warp Energy or Unown Q to reatreat it immediately. If he can, try to snipe it with Garchomp.
     
  3. Barkjon

    Barkjon Active Member

    9: Lucario GL + Luxray GL X's Flash Impact (or Trash Bolt).
    10: Kinda hard. Some decks teched in DGX. Most LuxChomp lists run Bebe's to search outside of trainer lock. Plus, you can try to snipe the lock-ers off early. The primary trainer-locking deck is VileGar.

    THE DECK:
    I feel like talking about LuxChomp...

    LUXRAY GL: This guy is the first form of Luxray X. Nothing special here, except his first attack can donk Q's/Hoppips on the other side of the field, and Trash Bolt is decent in some cases.

    LUXRAY GL X: This is one of the primary cards in the deck. His power is extremely good. Basically, you bring up a pokemon from the bench on the other side of the field to active. Combined with Trash Bolt/Flash Impact + Bat Drop you can easily KO a Pixie (uxie, azelf, mespirit) who was sitting on their bench.

    GARCHOMP C: Chomp C also has a donking attack, Claw Swipe, which is exactly the same as Luxray GL's first attack. You can, again, donk Q's/Hoppips, and for the higher HP opponents Earthquake can be launched T1 (DCE+Gain).

    GARCHOMP C X: This card is one of my all time favorites. First off, his power can be extremely disrupting, like when your opponent is playing spread and you play this right as they are about to score 4 prizes in one turn. Seriously, it rocks. The attack is also great: 80 damage to bench (can be done t1 the same way as Earthquake can: DCE+gain) OHKO's any pixies over there, most basic SPs, and can KO slightly higher HP opponents if you drop a bat first.

    UXIE X: This guy is the level X of this decks primary draw engine. Zen Blade is decent, it can KO a rival Machamp if you drop a bat beforehand and you have a Lucario GL out on your side. Trade Off also provides extra draw, like if you have already used your Uxies.

    UXIE: Uxie is this decks primary draw. Simple: drop, draw until you have 7 cards. This card can also donk opposing Q's and can be reused via it's attack.

    AZELF: Azelf's power can be used to get crucial Pokemon from the prizes that you need. The attack is nothing special, but can buy you some time.

    CROBAT G: I love this card. Crobat (Bat) can be put on bench, and when you do so you put 1 damage counter anywhere on your opponent's field - leaving you open to many tricks with this guy. Plus, in combinations with PokeTurn, you can reuse power. The attack is decent vs. Donaphan.

    BRONZONG G: Bronzong's power can be used to do some pretty cool tricks with, since you move energy around. Have a lightning attached to Luxray you don't want? Simple. Move it to the Garchomp X you have up that you want to Dragon Rush with but you don't have enough energy. The attack is horrible though.

    LUCARIO GL: Lucario is nothing special outside of his Body - it makes all pokemon in play have x2 weakness. Since pretty much every card in this deck already has x2 weakness, only your opponent is hurt.

    AMBIPOM G: Optional card, you can switch it out for Dragonite FB. Tail Code is extremely annoying T1 to mess up your opponent, and Snap Attack can be used to donk or OHKO an opposing Garchomp C X that just Dragon Rushed.

    DRAGONITE FB: Dragonite is optional, you can switch it out for Ambipom. His first attack can OHKO opposing Garchomp C X and can KO many first stage SP's. Don't use the second attack, please.

    UNOWN Q: Q is extremely useful for his Poke-Power, which lets you attach him as a tool and reduce the retreat cost it's attached to by one. Pretty nice.

    PROMOCROAK G: Promocroak is nice to revenge kill. He can OHKO an opposing Luxray GL X if they just KO'd one of your Pokemon. His retreat is rough, but you can use his power to get him out of there.

    I don't want to go far into the T/S/S/, but the SP Engine:

    POKETURN: Let's you pick up an SP: Reuse power, get back energy, retreat, heal - it can do all that.

    SP RADAR: Pretty much just gets you an SP from deck.

    POWER SPRAY: Extremely disruptive, it prevent your opponent from using a power, so you want to play this early (assuming you have 3 SP's in play)

    ENERGY GAIN: Gains let you reduce the cost of an SP's attack by a single colorless - changing these pokemon from good to amazing.

    This deck also plays Cyrus's Conspiracy to search out a basic energy, one of the SP Engine, and a supporter to power this whole deck. This deck generally plays Bebe's to search out non-SP and go around trainer lock, Aaron's Collection to resuse SP's and energy from discard, and Collector to search out basics.

    The energy list isn't that weird.

    DOUBLE COLORLESS: Lets you do a Dragon Rush/EQ t1. This is the main energy used for Garchomp C X. Pretty sweet.

    CALL: Provides energy, and searches out basics, extremely nice t1.

    LIGHTNING: Generally 3 or 4 played, you use it on Luxray GL and Garchomp if need be.

    PSYCHIC: Used for Promocroak and Azelf if need be.

    Why the deck is so good:

    It is consistent, extemely fast, and disruptive. It has good matchups vs. pretty much every deck out there. It's consistent (you have no idea how consistent it is, it's amazing, yet slightly hard to describe), fast (you can generally get out a Chomp X ready to Dragon Rush t1/t2), and disruptive (Power Sprays, Healing Breath, Bright Look all wreck your opponent.)

    Hope I helped!
     
  4. Kayle

    Kayle New Member

    GREAT posts all over in this topic. This was an amazing idea.


    Question 9:
    Gyarados is a challenge, and part of why it's done well and is as popular as it is, is because of its solid Luxchomp matchup. Gyarados is able to OHKO virtually any Pokemon that Luxchomp can throw at it, and has incredible recovery and competitive speed.

    A Luxchomp build going unprepared into a Gyarados matchup should play a speed and disruption game at first. Your Garchomp Cs aren't useless in the match, but setting them up like normal may hinder your ability to recover Luxrays quickly, which can be a death sentence. If you can force a Regice active and KO it while spraying their Regi Moves, you're off to a good start - not a foolproof entering strategy, but one with some merit. Bear in mind that they can Rescue it back and/or Junk Arm the Karps away if their hand permits.

    You approach the match the same way you approach other Stage 2 matches: take as many easy, disruptive prizes as you can so that once they do set up, you can easily and quickly take whatever is left and claim the game before your opponent squashes you. Eat ALL of their Sableyes and prevent them from getting their setup via Impersonate - they are cheap, quick prizes that help your cause. If you have the space to Dragon Rush something, target Regice if you can - if you can't, be careful if you snipe a Pixie, because they may Rescue it back and get another free use of its power.

    See below for what happens if they start rolling you with a Gyarados lol.

    A Luxchomp build going into a Gyarados metagame will want to play the following:

    - Lucario GL. Playing Gyarados without it is almost suicide.
    - A nice, heavy Crobat count. I always play 2 just because the things are so darn useful.
    - 3-1 Luxray is a bonus. More base Luxrays means more Trash Bolt knockouts without having to recover for them.

    The idea behind this is simply that Trash Bolt with Lucario in play and a Bat drop in the same turn will OHKO an Expert Belted Gyarados. If they don't Belt, due to poor draw or whatever reason, you can KO them with Trash Bolt (and no flash bite) or Flash Impact (and a flash bite), the latter being very preferable because it then forces them to Belt or double Flash Bite in order to revenge KO you (as long as you don't place that damage on yourself). Bonus!

    But don't think that your 3-1 Luxray, 2 Bat G and Lucario GL is going to make your Gyarados match favorable! It's still an uphill battle if you can't stop them from getting a Gyarados out before you've taken three-ish Prizes. If you knock out a Gyarados, they are just one Pokemon Rescue away from revenge KOing you. If they knock out your Luxray, you need to get LCC attached PLUS an energy in hand you're willing to discard to ensure the return knockout. You're at a serious disadvantage in this matchup's shootout, which is why it's so vital to take those early prizes so that you can limit the pain as much as possible!

    Also watch out for Cyclone Energy and Regi Move forcing you to switch your Pokemon around when you really don't want to switch. It can make Gyarados' life easy by forcing you to push something active that they can then Knock Out.

    Question 10:
    I personally rarely have issues with "trainer lock" decks, but I have not played a great many Vilegar matches, so I don't know much about it for sure.

    A trainer lock is a field situation in which you cannot use trainers consistently. Vileplume/Gengar, Magnezone, and Dialgachomp all can put the pressure on you with trainerlock.

    Dialgachomp is a serious threat because of its already great metagame status. If you can shut it down with key early game Power Sprays, they may be forced into a shootout with Garchomp C - one that you can probably (but not always) win. If not, and you end up with a massive tanked-up Dialga staring you down with Deafen for 30 every single turn, you're in serious trouble and there's really not much you can do except (assuming they don't play Ruins of Alph) promote Luxray GL and hope for the best while you limit their damage output. Usually, trying to kill the Dialga is a waste of time - focus on their Garchomp Cs and Pixies instead.

    Magnezone is a bit out there right now so I haven't played it a bunch. See Vilegar for some general tips on beating it, but as far as Zone itself goes, some players are very frustrated with Magnezone's great hit-and-run tactics that prevent it from being easily targeted. If a Belted Magnezone is giving you serious problems and you NEED to lay the hurt on it, let it KO one of your Pokemon - say, a Pixie - then promote Luxray, Bright Look the Zone, and retreat into a Promocroak + Flash Bite (now that you aren't trainer locked)! If they don't knock out the Toxicroak G, you can Leap Away even if they trainer lock you and go back to your normal shenanigans.

    Vileplume/Gengar (Vilegar) has been seen as a threat in Swiss if not overall in the last several months, for its fearsome combination of fierce trainer lock and awesome damage output - plus Fainting Spell. It's actually pretty quick if run in a streamlined highly consistent list, but it still has some weaknesses that can be exploited during setup - though, Luxchomp isn't as good at it as some other decks may be.

    Firstly, part of what it relies on to get going is Spiritomb. This little booger dies to Flash Impact, which is fortunately not hard to charge up quickly even when trainer locked. Remember how I said in stage 2 matches you take as many early disruptive prizes as you can? Well, here's a great opportunity to do that - even if they're still able to drop the evolutions from their hand, knocking out Spiritombs puts some pressure on them early and gives you some Prizes to work with. When you initially Level Up, it might not be a bad idea to use that Bright Look to knock out their upcoming Vileplume however is necessary (Uxie Lv. X works wonders here).

    Speaking of which - the second thing is that they need to set up two separate Stage 2 lines, which sometimes works great - and other times is very slow. Worse, they can't use Rare Candy. So more often than they would like, they're going to find themselves with 70-80 HP Pokemon sitting on the bench hoping to see light of day as their fully fledged Evolution. Eat them up with Garchomps and you can bet it'll help you stay ahead.

    As far as general rules about playing under Trainer Lock goes, here are a few basic tips:
    • Play Call Energy! You can use it to take the place of your Energy Gains under Trainer lock (it's unsearchable but better than nothing) and it can also double to search out your Basics early in the game, which might otherwise be very difficult to do.
    • Play shuffle supporters. These can do two important things for you. Firstly, they empty your hand against Vilegar to help limit their damage output. Secondly, they force up some new cards quickly, which can often give you that DCE or Level X card you've been BEGGING for for several turns.
    • Playing 2 Bebe's Search is considered standard in a metagame that may include trainer lock (as opposed to the usual 1 + Luxury Ball). You might also consider removing your Premier Ball, possibly for a third Bebe's Search.
    • When you play Cyrus, search your deck for Energy Gains and Poke-Turns, and leave the Power Sprays and SP Radars alone. If the trainer lock lets up, it will probably only do so for a moment - long enough to get the Energy Gains down and play some Poke-Turn shenanigans, but not long enough that you'll be able to Spray anything, and also probably late enough in the game that SP Radar won't help you.
     
  5. Ignatious

    Ignatious New Member

    Fixed. As you can see LuxChomp has insanely good matchups. With the only downsides being VileGar and Gigas... There's not much there to stop the deck.
     
  6. Ace-

    Ace- New Member

    Question #1 = The don't really do ALOT of damage with their attacks! How do they knock anything out ?

    Most is said already but also one point which isnt said yet(as far as i recognize): weakness. Luxchomp can abuse weakness well because :lightning: and :colorless: are popular weaknesses Luxchomp plays Uxie and Uxie Lv.X as well because it is a good draw card. so they have a 3rd attacker against cards which have :psychic: weakness. Besides SP gives a lot techs which you can add in easily because you can search the energy you need with cyrus and reduce the attack cost by one by using energy gain. The SP Techs also dont have high energy cost. Moreover almost every luxchomp use lucario gl which helps a lot to abuse weakness

    Question #3 = How do you start your first few turns? How do you set it up?

    In general i try to get 3 Sp Pokemon to be able to use power spray. I also try to get my main attackers, Luxray and Garchomp, out. Besides i try to use many cyrus at the first turns because it allows you to get the SP trainers very fast.

    Question #4 = How do you get past a bad first hand? (i.e. bad start)

    luck. like every other deck you need luck to get the right supporter. if you only have energies and one basic and you only draw energies or trainers you cant use yet, there is really nothing you cant do. However you should always stall or if you can take prizes, take prizes because you might get a card which really helps

    Question #5 = What IS considered to be a "Good Start"?

    For me a good start is when you have 3 sp pokemon, 1 power spray and 1 supporter. With 3 SP Pokemon you can be sure that you can cancel a key uxie power. If you can make a donk, it is a good hand as well but it doesnt give you a lot fun.


    Question #6 = What is considered to be a "bad start"?

    a bad start is when you dont have supporters for the first 6-7 turns. also a bad start is when you have a basic you dont want to start with and you dont switch it. it slows you down and you can´t use your advantage. Besides if you get donked it is a bad start as well.


    Question #9 = HOW DO I BEAT GYRARADOS with this deck ???

    the keys are luxray and lucario gl. Luxray can ohko gyrados with the help of lucario and crobat g. Besides the PokePower allows you to stall. Then you can snipe with garchomp for prizes.
    If you play cards which lets shuffle your opponent, you should use them for the first turns. Gyarados needs just 1-2 turns to do much damage. if you can interrupt them and take out the starter, gyarados cant really get magikarps fast enough to the discard pile . So it doesnt do a lot damage. IF you expect many gdos, 3 luxray GL and 1 lv.x should be better than 2-2 luxray because you have one more attacker which can OHKO Gdos.


    Question #10 = How do I beat a deck that Prevents me from Using my trainers? Is that what they mean by "Trainer Lock"? What decks lock trainers?

    the definition of trainer lock is already said. if you expect a lot spiritombs, regice or blaziken Fb are good techs because they can remove the trainer lock by switching the defending pokemon. If trainer locks decks play vileplume, regice is a really good way to remove trainers if the damage relies on the trainer cards you have in hand. Against Vileplume Drifblim FB helps a lot because it can snipe like garchomp and does the same damage like garchomp, but you dont have to discard energies and it might have more hp than garchomp
    Dialga G is also a good help because it shuts down pokebodies.
     
  7. Kayle

    Kayle New Member

    70-30 Luxchomp against gyarados?? Who do you play?
     
  8. Ignatious

    Ignatious New Member

    I was being generous.. I play against top OH players as well as at the GA marathon.
     
  9. Rogue Archetype

    Rogue Archetype Moderator <br> Contest Host

    I've gotten several PM's from new Players thanking you guys for breaking down LuxChomp.

    You may not be able to SEE the gratitude here, but your contributions are GREATLY appreciated.

    So THANK YOU to all who have come in and given some time to answer LuxChomp questions.

    __________

    There are a few things in here that even have experienced players saying " OH SNAP! I never thought of that!"

    _________

    You guys are amazing!
     
  10. Nintendan

    Nintendan Active Member

    Can't LC just spray Sacrifice or the Mesprits?
     
  11. Mama_Luigi

    Mama_Luigi New Member

    Spraying sacrifice is the main way Luxchomp can win against Gigas
     
  12. LoTad

    LoTad New Member

    Honestly, I think these matchups are a little off.

    first off, luxchomp is much better off in the gyarados matchup than that. I'm with Ignatious, 70-30 luxchomp is being generous. Also, I think Vilegar has the edge over most luxchomp builds. I would say 40-60. Machamp would beat luxchomp much more than 55 times. Despite luxchomps speed and versatility, I would still say at least bump it up to 65. Along with these, I would also reverse the numbers in the gigas matchup.

    When comtemplating these matchups, I think it's important to assume that your theoretical opponents are at the exact same skill level as you. Sometimes, we may play a newer player using a less expensive deck like vilegar, and we don't see the deck's full potential. Just something to keep in mind.
     
  13. Ignatious

    Ignatious New Member

    Not unless you get three SPs out right off the bat and are an amazing topdecker. They skrew you out of a hand and out of powers immediately. They kill very quickly, Luxray X is the only card that doesn't get OHKOed, but then there is always Regimove, Warp Point, or Cyclone energy. Once Luxray has 20 damaged from the bench, it then become a OHKO on a flip. =/ Lucky power Sprays can save you, but in the mean time it's rough.
     
  14. LoTad

    LoTad New Member

    Btw, Ignatious, how do you make that upside i?

    jk
     
  15. Parco Folgore

    Parco Folgore New Member

    Scriptural evidence that LuxChomp is BDIF.
     

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