The Tides Are Turning...MF's Newest Powerhouse

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Jim Ferrell, Mar 6, 2004.

8 league13 468 60
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jim Ferrell

    Jim Ferrell New Member

    A couple months ago, Stephanie (cookieqween) and I looked at Latias ex. I mean it's pretty damned impressive. WRC: 100, discard a R and W. That's nothing to sneeze at. If you look at it practically, that's a prize everytime you attack. Because if you attack any EX Evo (from Gardevoir to Wailord) over two turns, you deal 200 damage, and if you KO an EX Poke, you grab two prizes. So basically, attack 6-8 times (110 HP Pokes), and you win. I just didn't think of using Magneton (Psychodad and Strike brought that to my attention via other posts). Basically, the premise is to get a Swampert, Latias, and Magneton in play. Attack with Latias, get the Fire and Water you discarded back from the discard, attach the Fire, and Water Call the Water, and just always attack for 100. That ratio is even better than Rayquaza because Rayquaza discards 2 and deals 80 (but Ray can also KO anything with infinite damage possibility) Anyways...here's my untested list...

    Tides Are Turning...
    Modified Format

    Pokemon: 21
    4 Dunsparce (Sandstorm)
    3 Mudkip (Dragon)
    3 Marshstomp (Slash)
    3 Swampert (Water Call)
    2 Magnemite (Random Spark)
    2 Magneton (Magnetic Field)
    2 Latias ex
    2 Entei ex

    Energy: 17
    11 Water
    6 Fire

    Trainers: 22
    4 Oracle
    4 TV Reporter
    3 Professor Oak's Research
    3 Pokenav
    2 Rare Candy
    2 Pokemon Nurse
    2 Warp Point
    1 Copycat
    1 Town Volunteers

    Basiscally, you treat it as a reverse Blaziken list. You still want to TV energy into the Discard so you can pull it back with Magneton anyways. However, with the loss of Delcatty (some lists can still play it), I opt for Pokenav. to get evolutions. Especially since I play Rare Candy less (which prolly will change). Also, I like to go 3/1 Research/Copycat instead of 4 Research because of the huge hands Blaziken players often have. Now, I am also playing Nurse. Why? Well, if you attack and discard two energy, you are left with one energy, why not just Nurse you huge HP Basic and keep on going? If you get two Swampert in play, it's basically gg. You can simply Water call twice and attach after a Nurse. Also, I play Warp Point over Switch to get rid of Wobbuffet.

    Now, the biggest change with my deck that I haven't seen in others is the addition of Entei ex. It's a brand new card from Magma/Aqua. Just for you, here are its stats...

    Entei ex 100 HP
    Basic ex Pokemon

    R: Searing Flame: 10 Flip a coin, if heads, the Defending Pokemon is Burned
    RRC: Bright Flame: 90 Discard 2 energy cards attached to Entei ex.

    Weak: W
    Resist: -
    Retreat: CC

    So basically, it's Latias again, but it does 10 less damage and the energy cost is a little different? So why bother? Well...it would help immensely versus Aggron ex which would give this deck some serious issues. It also would help out against Ampharos ex. As well as having a secondary attacker who isn't threatened seriously by Colorless. Such as Shards, Rayquaza ex, Mirror Match, Ditto, etc. So basically, you would do the same thing with Latias. Attack, discard a W and R and then Magneton the energy back and Water Call the Water to Entei and reattach the Fire.

    Again, this deck is totally untested. And personally, I would like to go 4 Mudkip and 4 Swampert. Just for added security. Something else that could be worked on, would be the possibility of going with Swampert ex because it is Fighting type if Ampharos is big in your area.

    Thoughts? Responses? Tweaks? Flames? Donuts or Turkey Sandwiches?

    ~Jim Ferrell
     
  2. Ez1

    Ez1 New Member

    Just some thoughts:
    Swampert has suffered from four problems. 1. Slower
    set-up than BAR 2. resistance problems 3. weak attacks,
    and 4. electric weakness in some areas.

    Your deck ideas are very good and address many of these
    problems. However I still think there are several problems.

    Some suggestions:
    1. Go with 4 rare candy-it greatly speeds up the
    set-up time.
    2. Drop magneton line. Even though it helps once you are
    set-up it slows set-up time and you will probably be
    beaten by a faster BAR deck. Fisherman may do the same thing with fewer cards.
    But probably not as well.
    3. Add the power kitty line. In combo with tv/oracle
    it makes for extremely fast set-up.
    4. Use new swampert ex instead of entei ex. It does major damage to aggron ex
    and can finish something sitting on the bench.
    It also solves amphy problems.
    5. One of the problems with bar is that the complex set-up results in
    the player commonly being down 2-3 prizes before roaring back to win.
    Sometimes that requires sacrificing a couple of dunsparce or even worse
    a rayquaza. With the 4 ex pokies you might find that same problem made
    worse.
    6. I like the latias alot and have been trying to make it work. So far
    with mixed results. The ability of rayquaza to drop 3 to 4 fire energy when
    needed is a major plus. Latias with a tech Ditto might solve that problem.

    I like the swampert line alot!!!!!! just haven't been able to figure
    out yet how to make it a consistent top 3 deck.....the new swampert ex
    should help.....
     
  3. WaRrIoR04

    WaRrIoR04 New Member

    nice deck only thing i saw was to many oracle if you dont have catty theyre REAL slow so i would try to throw in catty which would really help this deck with magneton or drop 2 oracle for a couple of copycats
     
  4. Strike

    Strike Member

    hey now!

    Jim, like the idea of the new Entei EX, seems like it can fit in wit the synergy of the deck, which is really cool and give it the advantage over Aggron EX which when I first thought about it didn't really conern me. All I thought of it was that it was going to be a slugfest, pure and simple with no real advantage going to either side. Looks like that possibility has changed. I'm not all that sure however you really do need 2 entei however. I guess depending on the field it might be worthwhile but then again the main problem Eneti EX is supposed to take care of isn't really played as much as the deck we all see as the top dog. On a similar note however, Suicune EX looks just as enticing to ko Blaziken EX in one shot, like Aggron EX as well.

    Actually, I see the deck going one of three ways, all interchangable depending on the metagame:

    2 Entei EX

    1 Entei EX AND
    1 Suicune EX

    2 Suicune EX

    OOH! I just love the possibilities with this deck! Nice job with the rest of the list however, except for the TV reporters, but that was always just my personal opinion about my playstyle which is...pretty much irrelevant.
     
  5. Pidgeotto Trainer

    Pidgeotto Trainer New Member

    This decks looks really good, it could be as consistant as Blaziken but some things are harder with this. First Blaziken can power up while hiding on the bench, Swampert gives the extra nrg only to the active. Rayquaza also can get rid of anything in one hit which Latias can't. I agree that Swampert ex would be a better to counter Amphy ex and Aggron ex instead of Entei ex. Suicune ex is also a good idea but we have to see how much Blaziken ex affects everything, since Swampert can just ko the RS Blazikens. Too bad everyone has already teched Crystal Shards.
     
  6. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    I like the deck, the only thing that bugs me is that you will have to discard a card from your hand every turn for the combo to work. I was thinking of a new BAR type deck with Entei EX instead of rayquaza, and aqua's manectric instead of ampharos. It won't be able to OHKO everything but will be able to do 90 every turn with no help from any trainers.
     
  7. mozartrules

    mozartrules New Member

    Nice idea, but I would also prefer Swampert EX to the Entei. Swampert EX and an extra Mudkip would give you a powerhouse against both Ampharos and Aggron EX (weak to fighting). Swampert EX is one that - like Ampharos - didn't get a second weakness and loos like a pretty good card.
     
  8. Jim Ferrell

    Jim Ferrell New Member

    Pokemon: 21
    4 Dunsparce (Sandstorm)
    4 Mudkip (Dragon)
    3 Marshstomp (Slash)
    3 Swampert (Water Call)
    2 Magnemite
    2 Magneton (Magnetic Field)
    2 Latias ex
    1 Swampert ex

    Energy: 17
    10 Water
    5 Fire
    2 Multi

    Trainers: 22
    4 Oracle
    4 TV Reporter
    3 Professor Oak's Research
    3 Pokenav
    2 Rare Candy
    2 Warp Point
    2 Pokemon Nurse
    1 Copycat
    1 Town Volunteers

    Mabye Professor Birch to help with the shrinking hand via Magnetic Field? I'm still working on the draw engine. I am also thinking about -2 Rare Candy, +1 Entei ex, +1 Marshstomp. Not sure yet. Doubtful.

    ~Jim Ferrell
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2004
  9. mozartrules

    mozartrules New Member

    Why did you add the Multi Energy? It may be flexible, but you lose the goodness of both Magneton and Swampert (I assume) in this deck.
     
  10. GrandmaJoner

    GrandmaJoner New Member

    I think that ex Pokemon always seem greater than they are. And playing 2 of it, and it being the center of the deck may not work. It is OHKOd by Ninetales Expedition, so i dont know, I just dont see much future here.
     
  11. Magnechu

    Magnechu Active Member

    Jim-
    I like the idea, especially since me and my friend have been testing Swampy. It needs some tweaking, and I'll do just that:

    Pokemon: 25
    4 Dunsparce (Sandstorm)
    4 Mudkip (Dragon)
    2 Marshstomp (Slash)
    3 Swampert (Water Call)
    1 Swampert ex
    2 Magnemite (Random Spark)
    2 Magneton (Magnetic Field)
    2 Skitty (Sandstorm)
    2 Delcatty (Holo)
    3 Latias ex

    Energy: 17
    11 Water
    6 Fire

    Trainers: 18
    4 Oracle
    3 TV Reporter
    3 Professor Oak's Research
    3 Rare Candy
    2 Warp Point
    2 Pokemon Nurse
    1 Town Volunteers


    The draw Trainers are a little iffy, but Catty will go greatly as a substitute. A 3rd Latias is needed, IMO, because you'll probably need 2 a game, and what if one is in your prizes? 3/2 Candy/Stage 1 (Marshtomp) seems the way to go nowadays, and I like that the most. Entei I like, but I didn't have room for it--Swampert ex is good enough anyway.

    Anyway, hope I helped and good luck with this Jim!! :)
     
  12. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    What will you use against gardevior EX? What will you use against rayquaza EX?
     
  13. mozartrules

    mozartrules New Member

    Rayquaza is "simple", Latios and Rayquaza knocks each other out so it is mostly a question of control or luck. Gardevoir can be more tricky, but Latios does have resistance (it helps) and the discarding attack does at least reduce the amount of energyin play.
     
  14. psycodad

    psycodad New Member

    I have been biting my tounge while this list has been posted on several web sites recently as I have been playing this deck for a quite some time now. But at this point who cares so..........
    As I mentioned in this post
    www.pokegym.net/showthrea...951&page=2
    Lanettes is better in this deck. Why? I don't just trade some random card for nrg, I like to trade pokes and get them back with town volunteers. Lanettes lets me put pokes in my hand, dunsparse doesn't. Plus you lose a turn to attach to latias. And dunsparse costs you a space on the field of play. It just slows down the deck and gets in the way. It hurts you less if you don't play delcatty. My experience is the deck loses to blaze tails and muk ex, not aggron, gardy, or amphy so swampert ex is another card to drop. If it were water, I would keep it but no, it's fighting. What a waste. BTW, that is my old deck on the above post. My new list does better against blaze but as I mentioned, blaze tails speed and lack of ex pokes makes it tough to beat. Looking at your lists you will have a hard time with a 4 wobby deck. In addition, don't play multi in this deck. You can't get it back and you won't want to use it for catty if you choose to play it. I play elecric, use it early for catty so I know where it is. Then if I need to fight with ton, I trade for it. Try that with multi. And TV reporter? You are already discarding nrg to attack and cards to trade for nrg so why would you use tv reporter? You will run out of cards in a long game. Why nurse? Everything that gives this deck a hard time OHKO's latias. You'll never use it unless you keep swampert ex. And while two swamperts are good, it does not always spell GG. My over all take on the deck is this. The deck is ok but it did not get much help like blaze did in the new set so I suspect it will be an also ran in the new MF. Blaze-on should be the name for the new format.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2004
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page