This should be the best deck out right now. I'll explain why, LMK what you think!

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by GrandmaJoner, Apr 7, 2004.

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  1. GrandmaJoner

    GrandmaJoner New Member

    This should be the best deck out there right now, the one that should work the best. This is Blaziken/Blaziken ex/Niniken. I KNOW I'm not the first one to use this OBVIOUSLY, but I just want help perfecting it. Let me tell you why this deck beats Blaziken ex/Rayquaza...Because of the two prize rule solely. Although the retreat of rayquaza is annoying sometimes if you use multi energy, but thats not the main problem. Blaziken ex gets rid of Rayquaza with no problem, but with Ninetales he would think twice because it is not as much of a loss. So let me know what you think, any minor changes, etc. Thanks,
    Joner

    Pokemon(24)
    4 Torchic (Singe)- for first turn attack- possibility of turn 2 Blaziken ex
    1 Combusken (Flare)
    3 Blaziken (Firestarter)
    2 Blaziken ex
    2 Vulpix Expedition
    1 Vulpix Aquapolis
    3 Ninetales Expedition
    4 Dunsparce SS
    2 Skitty SS
    2 Delcatty RS Holo

    Trainers (20)
    4 Professor Oak's Research
    4 Rare Candy
    3 Oracle
    3 Tv Reporter
    2 Copycat
    1 Desert Shaman
    1 Warp Point
    1 Town Volunteers
    1 High Pressure System

    Energy(16)
    16 Fire

    LMK what you think!
     
  2. Articjedi

    Articjedi Active Member

    Okay, I don't think it matters what variant you run, in a mirror match, whoever gets out their blazi ex out first wins. It doesn't matter if you win against a rayquaza, because it's really a race for your bench killer. If neither blazi ex comes out, you have the advantage, but there really isn't a difference.
     
  3. GrandmaJoner

    GrandmaJoner New Member

    Exactly...if neither Blaziken ex comes out, I do have the advantage...which is the little thing that makes this deck better.
     
  4. mozartrules

    mozartrules New Member

    You will then have to weight that against the fact that you are much more vulnerable to the water decks that a lot of people are playing (either to be original or because they don't have the cards needed to play Blaziken). I think that difference makes the Rayquaza decks better.

    It pleases me - as an Omastar player - to see all these decks with multiple Rare Candies!
     
  5. GrandmaJoner

    GrandmaJoner New Member

    LOL, Omastar player? That wont work much at all. Ninetales could KO you with 4 energies, and its highly unlikely that Ill have used 2 or more rare candies when you use that inferior attack on me anyways.
     
  6. mozartrules

    mozartrules New Member

    I have probably played a lot more games (using Omastar) against decks with Rare Candy (including plenty of Blaziken decks) than you have played against Omastar, so don't be so rash judging what works and what doesn't work. The attack is very good for a single energy and I agree that you are likely to be able to knock out Omastar the first time you lose 2 Blazikens, but it is going to be a lot harder the second time even if you get the RC quickly enough to re-evolve. You seem to indicate that your opponent will have no more attackers when you have knocked out that Omastar that took one whole energy with it to the discard pile.

    Enough about that, this thread is not about Omastar. Do you have any comments about my assessment that this is significantly weaker than Rayquaza based decks against Water decks in general (like Swampert/Suicune or the fast Aqua deck that Johnnyblaze posted)?
     
  7. GrandmaJoner

    GrandmaJoner New Member

    I have played against all of those decks ( online, mind you, but against decent players ) and have prevailed against all of them. Most people play crystal shard anyways, and this could be a killer. Imagine turn 2 Aqua's Kyogre doing 100. Doesnt sound all that appetizing =/. And taking 2 prizes. I have also played against this same deck, except with rayquaza, and mine usuallty prevails.
     
  8. GrandmaJoner

    GrandmaJoner New Member

    And with omastar, if it stands a chance against Blaziken, it doesnt really stand a chance against other decks, like Swampert/Suicune.
     
  9. Masamune156

    Masamune156 New Member

    Maybe not Omastar on its own, but comboed right, that card can be used to a deadly effect. Now tell me this... Your deck only has 1 Combusken.... What happens when I use Pull Down twice? No more Blazikens for you.
     
  10. mozartrules

    mozartrules New Member

    I think a turn 2 Aqua's Kyogre is going to spell trouble for either Blaziken deck (which is why the deck was built). It is a one-hit knockout of anything you have other than Blaze EX and it is going to be tough to get that out (and powered!) quickly enough. You are right that the Rayquaza player will lose an extra prize, but that does at least mean that the opponent needs one extra card and I would guess (I have not tried this!) that an extra prize is less important that whether you are able to recover at all.

    I happen to disagree (this may depend a lot on what other cards either player uses), but as I tried to say before: let us not turn this thread into a discussion about Omastar when it really is about your Blaziken variant and whether it is better than one using Rayquaza rather than Ninetails as the big hitter.

    But the fact that Omastar is playable should perhaps make us discuss what the best distribution between RC and Combusken is. A lot of decks seem to be very heavy on RC, I assume this is because they think they can get the Stage-2 and RC together using Oracle.
     
  11. Pidgeotto Trainer

    Pidgeotto Trainer New Member

    I think Blaze/ex/quaza is better now than Niniken ex.
    Like Articjedi said, the mirror of 2 Blaziken decks will depend completely on who gets Blaziken ex out first. If anything, Rayquaza should give you a better shot if any to ko Blaziken ex. Especially if you miraculously still have an Amphy or TA Manectric with nrg. But most likely neither could get powered before getting ko'd.
    That was the only reason Niniken could be considered better than Blazquaza. Water is going to be huge. Rayquaza variants are better vs. Water than Niniken. You still have to draw the Shards. This is not nearly automatic. Turn 2 TA Kyogre ko's everything but Blaze ex in Niniken. Turn 2 TA Kyogre vs. Quaza w/out the Shard yet is stuck doing 20.
     
  12. JohnnyBlaze

    JohnnyBlaze New Member

    Isnt that right Mozart!

    Grandma Joner - It all depends on your metagame. When we traveled to the New Jersey CC I was faced off against Mozart Rules the 1st round with my Ninkin deck. Although I won by prizes it was a very close match. Pull down totally destroys what the Rare Candy evolves into. in the lategame, I was lucky enough to be holding a Rare Candy and then topdecked another one to re-evolve into 2 Blazikens after a Pull Down. Luckily there was no damage on them either. Then I was able to Double Firestart and take 1 more prize before time was called. So if there isnt alot being played in your area expect it when you travel to a larger tourney.
     
  13. SuperWooper

    SuperWooper New Member

    Besides, Grandma, Rayquaza can be played against Blaziken EX more easily then Niniken can. Rayquaza needs to be slapped down and toss a multi/rainbow/lightning on it. Then firestarter, retreat and KO. Ninetales needs to play Vulpix and then Firestarter a crapload, and THEN evolve next turn. And if a blaziken ex sees a vulpix, it's gonna be KO'd. Besides, if you candy straight to Ninetales, that's one less Candy you can evolve Torchic into Blaziken/EX with...and Omastar, master of rougeness, gets ya again.

    Woooper
     
  14. GrandmaJoner

    GrandmaJoner New Member

    Crapload of energy...wow ONE more. And for two prizes, i think its worth it. And I dont see omastar going up against any decks and standing a chance such as aggron ex or anything, because its effect is totally screwed up then.
     
  15. GrandmaJoner

    GrandmaJoner New Member

    ROFL jermy dsflgiubslkiufdgblgub stop with these stupid comments =/
     
  16. mozartrules

    mozartrules New Member

    I didn't really want to talk about my deck since I prefer it to be a surprise to as many people as possible (even though I am sure that others play a similar deck), but Omastar is just one of the options. You basically play a deck with no basics, 4 Root Fossils and 3/3 lines of Cradily, Omastar and Armaldo. You use Lileep to get the Stage1s out deciding which ones to get depending on the opponent's deck. Omastar works wonders against Blaziken, Cradily is great against Gardevoir and Armaldo takes care of Aggron EX and Ampharos just nicely. It helps a lot against BEX that Omastar and Armaldo both have more than 100HP and that they in this deck almost play like Stage1s! Not perfect, but I like playing a non-standard deck and have played about even with the main prototype decks (as Johnny Blaze mentions above, he just happened to topdeck his last Rare Candy when I thought I had delivered the final blow).

    I will give you something more to consider since I can see that you only have a single Warp Point. Cradily can be extremely annoying. Many people do like you because of space limitations and I have managed to get every single Delcatty I have met out to rot helplessly while I build my Pokemon. You cannot retreat, putting energy on it to attack is futile and you cannot use the power to help you get that single Warp Point.

    I should probably find something else to play at States now!
     
  17. SuperWooper

    SuperWooper New Member

    Venus? As in Sailor Venus? Jermy, is there something we should know?

    ROFL
     
  18. Masamune156

    Masamune156 New Member

    I like it because of the 2 prize rule too - When I KO it that is.
     
  19. GrandmaJoner

    GrandmaJoner New Member


    Wow you have like 12 different evolutions in one deck (exaggeration etc.). I really think you are being a little optimistic...I'd love to play you IRL;/
     
  20. mozartrules

    mozartrules New Member

    Sorry, I don't play on the net. I know it sounds extreme to play 9 Stage-2 Pokemon and three different types of energy in the one deck but it actually works. You can control your starting hand by waiting for the Root Fossil + Lileep combination (or possibly Fossil + PETM (*)) and Lileep's first attack is then used - typically twice - to fill the bench with the Stage-1 Pokemon needed (this of course depends on the opponent's deck). The deck at this stage almost plays like one with 3 Stage-1 lines which is doable, you just get better attacks, useful powers and more HP.

    Think of it as playing Dunsparce and three 3/3 Stage-1 evolutions. It is a little harder to set up but you do get to pick your opening hand to ensure that your first attack is the search one.

    This is not an easy deck to play, but it is not an easy deck to play against either. I did have some problems with the trainer engine at the CC (I have concluded that Ancient Ruins doesn't work for me), but I have largely fixed this. I also did have problems then with being energy starved, but I have made corrections there including the use of DRE which works really well in this deck.

    (*)
    It would have been really nice if Wally would allow you to evolve first turn, then you could wait for the Root/Wally combination and get going first rather than the second turn (which is a recognized weakness of the deck).
     
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