Town Map: Advantages/Disadvantages?

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by MrSmileyPants, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. MrSmileyPants

    MrSmileyPants New Member

    Town Map

    Turn all of your Prize cards face up. (Those Prize cards remain face up for the rest of the game.)

    I noticed that this card has not been discussed as much, I want to know what the community thinks. (If it is being discussed somewhere, please kindly point me in that direction).

    As far as I can see, the major advantages of Town Map include:
    -The ability to strategize with your prize draws added into the equation, maintaining a favorable board position, baiting out resources, etc.

    -You'd really only need to include one in your list (if you choose to play it), because its effect lasts the remainder of the game, and you can use it at any point in the game

    The glaring disadvantage is that your opponent knows what your prizes are as well and could be able to adjust accordingly.

    So is the knowledge that Town Map gives worth taking up that 60th slot? or does it reveal too much for its own good? I plan to experiment with it myself, and will share my results. But in the mean time, what do you think?
  2. KazamBolt

    KazamBolt Active Member

    There are 2 disadvantages other than the one you said.

    1.) Your opponent knows what card you draw. He knows when to N and when not to.

    2.) That Town Map could be anything else helping to boost consistency/techs/etc. I'd even rather have Pokedex than Town Map.

    I just think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.
  3. Shen

    Shen New Member

    It's too bad it's not sort of like Alph Lithograph Four. That way your prize information is still a secret to your opponent. True, your opponent may still N you... because they know that you know which prize to take. However, they still don't know what you got. IMO, the biggest disadvantage is just letting your opponent know what's prized. If you've played 3 Catchers, and they see 1 is prized, then they can play aggressively until they know you can get that Catcher.

    The biggest advantage would be being able to get something out of your prizes that you really can't have prized. For example, how Rotom helped Durant last format. However, Town Map doesn't let you immediately get the card out of your prizes, so it's not quite as good as Rotom. I'm not sure if there's really anything (competitive) like Durant this format, but it would have to be something that you couldn't play anymore of in your list than you already have AND you can't afford to have any prized (or at least not prized for very long). It's not competitive, but a good example would be in a deck using an attack doing something similar to Reuniclus NVI's Net Force. Could also maybe be useful for critical Ace-Spec cards that you don't want prized.

    In all, it has potential to see play, but only in certain decks. I don't think people will play it in decks unless they have reasons like those I outlined above because the disadvantages are just too great, otherwise.
  4. rileysill32

    rileysill32 New Member

    it's only good if ur ace spec is prized imo
  5. AyameHikaru

    AyameHikaru New Member

    This is the point of Town Map, I think. If you're running a deck with a 4-2-4 line, it's not too critical if one card is prized. If you're running multiple Stage 2's, or if you have a 1-0-1 tech, then I'd say Town Map is a good play.
  6. thepliskin5005

    thepliskin5005 New Member

    i would put one in my deck.....Some since's its an amazing drawing card also.
  7. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    Isn't that actually the same point MrSmileyPants gave? Playing N seems to be adjusting accordingly. Likewise later comments are just more detailed (though that is fine since Shen didn't claim it was completely new):

    Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to promote clarity.

    You shouldn't need to run more than one Town Map; if you don't have something like Skyla to help fetch that lone copy, you shouldn't be running any at all. If your single copy is Prized... better that than something more important.

    You're just using it to streamline your Prize draws and/or avoid important cards being "stuck" in your Prizes. A huge key is how you play it; the better a player you are, the better you'll know your deck and all Town Map is revealing is which Prize is which as you already knew what cards were in there.

    So you shouldn't play it without good reason, like making sure when something important is Prized, you're dropping Town Map and then taking at least one Prize. Sure your opponent may counter with N but playing N after an opponent takes a Prize is already a probable play. It seems unlikely your opponent would be using N only because of what you drew, and that probably is also somewhat good.

    For example, you took your first Prize, but the game is now 2 Prizes to 5 in your opponent's favor. You use Town Map, your opponent knows you just got a crucial card and added it to... your only other card in hand. Does your opponent play N, cripple his/her own hand, and hope you don't draw into something just as important? This is not likely, but I only wanted to illustrate N usage is complicated and sometimes, Town Map won't matter or at least won't "hurt" you.

    Likewise your opponent knowing you have something useful Prized is not always a bad thing. If I know I have a Pokémon Catcher Prized, I can play more aggressively and burn a copy from hand I otherwise wouldn't because... I know I can claim a replacement when I take that Prize! My opponent has to decide whether it is better to avoid giving up Prizes (even at the price of field presence) because I've got "good stuff" just waiting to be plucked from my Prizes, or to risk every Prize being as useful as a discard-free Computer Search (since I am getting the exact card I wanted)!

    Ultimately I have not decided whether or not Town Map is worth it, but I wanted to try and present some counterpoints to what has already been said.
  8. HerpTheDerp

    HerpTheDerp New Member

    To further expand upon Otaku's post, the ONLY downfall I can see is a crucial N play. But that is not a game-losing problem in my opinion. The majority of the time the cards that are prized that you really need are going to be pokemon techs. It is not that much of a disadvantage if your opponent plays an N after choosing that prize as most decks have PLENTY of ways of getting the said card back in your hand. The only way I can really see it outweighing the pros is if it was a late game prize draw and a late game N. I know it is possible and probable, but I still feel the benefits of knowing where the cards you need are far outweigh the said cons.
  9. Shino Bug Master

    Shino Bug Master Front Page News Editor

    I also feel that one of the greatest advantages is that its one of the only, if not the only card in the format that truly preforms its role perfectly at 1 copy and is always playable to get a card out of your hand. There will never be a point where you have to discard it too early like Super Rod, or wish you had another copy of it like Computer Search.

    People have talked about techs beign prized as its greatest benefit, but i feel that choosing what cards your opponent can N back into your deck is a huge advantage as well. Since N i most devestating when you are at a low amount of prizes, Town Map lets you pick which of your prizes you want to be able to redraw into if you are N'd.

    That said i do feel like deck space may simply not allow for all the mandatory Trainers (4 Catcher, 1 Super Rod, 1 Switch, 1 Computer Search) and fit in a Town Map, AND fit in all other neccesary cards. But I feel it's stronger than a lot of cards that have the 61st slot kind of design (2nd only to Tool Scrapper IMO). I put it in a lot of my Alpha lists, whether or not i keep it in them is yet to be seen.
  10. Unfallible

    Unfallible New Member

    This card would be so good IF we had something like rotom in the format. But we don't. And its bad. TBH I feel like all this card does is tell your opponent that your prizes are bad, and lets him capitalize on that knowledge. If your prizes aren't really all that bad, then it doesn't help you too much, does it?
  11. Kayle

    Kayle New Member

    What constitutes "good" or "bad" prizes? The fact of the matter is, you have a tenth of your deck taken away at the beginning of the game, and Town Map shows you immediately not only which of those pieces are gone (which is what everyone is focusing on), but also where they are.

    If you've got, I don't know, something like Darkrai/Hydreigon/Hydreigon/Deino/Deino/Dark Patch prized, well, that's pretty bad. And Town Map shows you what your prizes are, and so you and your opponent can see that your Hydreigon line is 1-?-1 and that's terrible. He takes out your one Deino, you never set up, you lose. Town Map doesn't help you here.

    If your prizes are something like Computer Search/Juniper/Juniper/N/Catcher/Catcher, I'd still say that's pretty bad, but at least you might still set up. You can play Town Map and see where your Supporters and Trainers are. Opponent low on prizes? Take a quick prize and grab your N. Obviously if you need Catchers, you know where to find them. Computer Search is there when you need it. This is a situation where Town Map seems to help you a lot more.

    If your prizes are "mediocre" - Darkrai/Dark Energy/Ultra Ball/Hydreigon/Dark Energy/Max Potion or something, Town Map still helps you, and doesn't much help your opponent. Your first two prizes can be whatever you need most - Ultra Ball/Dark maybe? Or maybe just Ultra Ball/Max Potion? How about Darkrai/Max Potion? Nice combinations of cards for a variety of situations. You could have played a great game without those cards immediately accessible, but Town Map allows them to be pseudo-searchable, giving you immediate access to them whenever you want.

    The card's biggest downside is that even if you play it "perfectly" - you search your deck oppan Ross style, figure out your exact six prizes, and then only play Town Map immediately before taking a KO so you can just flip them over and grab the two cards you need, your opponent still has a turn to react to your choices. They aren't secret anymore, your opponent can ask you to clarify what you've taken as your Prizes are now public knowledge, so if they've got the N or can knock out the Basic you're trying to evolve, etc, you're in trouble. I don't know that that's enough to say it's a bad card. I'm pretty sure it's a good card.

    It's just that proverbial 61st card. There's no space for it right now. =/
  12. psychup2034

    psychup2034 New Member

    I know that the format is a little slower right now than it was in the second half of last season, but if Alph Lithograph FOUR didn't see much play last season, what makes people think that Town Map will see much play?
  13. Swordfish1989

    Swordfish1989 New Member

    I've been reading the posts on this as well as discussing this card at lenght in league and I honestly just can't justify playing it. I'm sure we've all been at a situation where a card that we want or need is prized and we would love to know which one to pick up, but when we're imagining this all too common scenario we forget that the opponent doesn't know what we need or don't need. In Kayle's example with Darkrai/Hydreigon your opponent may not know that the reason you only put down one Deino is because the rest are prized and they may play differently. Same thing if 3/4 Catchers are prized - your opponent doesn't know that even if you do and a smart opponent will play as if you always have a Catcher in hand. By playing Town Map, you're giving your opponent very valuable knowledge of both what you're playing and what you have and don't have. The combination of your field, discard pile, and prizes will give your opponent a good estimate of what else is in your deck by mid-game. Keep in mind also that while the smart play would be to only play Town Map right when you need to (to keep your opponent from having valuable knowledge beforehand), I'm sure there will be times where you'll only play it too early or too late (especially only running 1). A 'too early' play would happen if you need to Juniper on your first turn. In that event you have to consider - is it better to play my 1-of card now, or discard it and never get to use it?

    Azelf was great because not only did it allow you to pick up a Pokemon you needed for your strategy (Magikarps, Garchomps, Luxrays, you name it) but you could see every prize and the knowledge was solely yours. I think giving your opponent too much knowledge of what you're doing is not a good idea for any deck in the format.
  14. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    I understand the concerns being given, but the multiple references to Alph Lithograph FOUR seem to neglect the difference of Skyla. Like I said, my advocacy for it assumes a deck running Skyla, preferably running it heavily.

    So it isn't buried in a big post this time, you should rarely be playing Town Map to learn your Prizes; you just need to know the location of the cards you can deduce from a deck search (if you're high level). If you're not high level, yes it is worth your opponent learning your Prizes for you to know them; being unable to deduce them from a legal, brief search effect is seriously crippling. ¬_¬

    In the end those, its biggest weakness is the same thing that bumped Alph Lithograph FOUR out of contention entirely: space!
  15. vaporeon

    vaporeon Moderator

    If Town Map said As often as you like, as long as this card is in your discard pile. You may look at your prize cards. The card would be way better.
  16. Swordfish1989

    Swordfish1989 New Member

    Agreed, a high level player should know what's in their prizes before playing Town Map and that its purpose should indeed be to learn the location of said prizes.

    Without Town Map you know what your prizes are. With Town Map you know what your prizes are and where they are, but your opponent knows what they are too. My argument is that it's not worth gaining the where to give your opponent the what (I hope that made as much sense written as it did in my head).
  17. K2theAblaM

    K2theAblaM New Member

    Alph lith 4 format didn't require such a consistency crutch. This format is lacking in consistency techs so town map could fit in just fine. Besides, grabbing a supporter or catcher from your prizes only ensures that it's now a part of you deck, and can be accessed. The information alone is valuable enough, let alone the chance of your opponent doesn't have an N to "burn" and you get to keep the card.

    Advantages outweigh the disadvantages completely for me.
  18. Misha

    Misha New Member

    If an ability like this gets back in rotation, I could see some cool uses, maybe an Ether combo...

    Might see some play in Stoutland/Ghetsis decks, too. =/
  19. MrScaryMuffin

    MrScaryMuffin New Member

    It's not a terrible card, but it lacks the oomph to get it out of the 61st card slot. Almost always, you'd want to run a consistency card over Town Map...which should solve almost all prizing problems except one-off techs
  20. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    It isn't just TecH cards (which by definition are single copies), but any useful card (be it TecH or maxed out) that gets stuck in the Prizes can be critical. It is correct to say, though, that this may not be enough to warrant bumping something more important. Sadly, I haven't tested it because I only just started noticing I was losing matches in part due to important cards being Prized.

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