TurnCruel--Underestimated Champion of next format?

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by Dr. Mason, Jul 24, 2008.

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  1. Dr. Mason

    Dr. Mason New Member

    Okay so for the past month or so, and having done poorly at Nationals(need to topdeck Claydol moar), I've been testing for next season's beginning, trying to get an edge for next season. Extensive testing has shown a lot to me about next season, barring any amazing Secret Deck that suddenly comes out of nowhere and blows my mind. I have played Kingdra, I have played AMU, I have not played PLOX due to an extreme disgust for the deck, I have played new versions of every other deck out right now, I have played Vilelossom, and then, I have played TurnCruel.

    This deck has the biggest potential of any that I've seen for the DP-LA format. It can be viciously fast and oppressive. There are plenty of ways to build it, like a Turn2Cruel. This is actually my least favorite way to build because any deck that does not need to discard energies to have good attacks with not discard if they are smart and avoid being trapped by this strategy. Not only that, but you will usually max at 80 damage, which is only OK. You also have no tanks at akk and a quick 90 damage will kill you, something not terribly hard to manage these days. Tentacruel can be dangerous in his own right with Dangerous Toxin, which can really surprise the opponent. People might want to think twice about Forretress decks or overloading their Vileplumes. However, even that's not enough to redeem a Turn2Cruel deck. If only the original Energy Removal was legal...

    Another way to build the sucker I've tried is with Zapdos, which mostly only succeeded in cluttering my Bench and giving Dusknoir some chow time. Spiritomb start is pretty bad too.

    As I played with it more and more it became obvious that TurnCruel needed bigger bulkier support, something that could take hits. It also needed help spreading even more. The obvious answer...was Ampharos.Ampharos's Jamming puts a damage counter on each of your opponent's Pokemon every time they use a supporter. I've had situations where the opponent simply would not play a supporter because they knew it would result in their own death. Ampharos also has 130 HP and a good attack that also spreads on energy manipulation. To me, he is the perfect combo with TurnCruel.

    A good starter for the deck is Absol. He can discard energy early on and slow down your opponent, allowing you to really get annoying. Watch how funny it is when your opponent gets his beloved Kingdra and Rare Candy in their starting hand, only for you to Baleful Wind both of them from his hand!

    Claydol is still the best draw in my opinion. Don't know what else to say here.

    Try something I haven't? Any ideas at all, just post 'em here. Personally, I think the deck can take both Kingdra and AMU.

    I suppose you could play straight Lanturn/Tentacruel and do well.

    Oh yes, translations for those hwo have not seen yet:

    Tentacool LV.16 – Water – HP50
    Basic Pokemon

    [C] Crystal Barrier: Flip a coin, if heads prevent all effects of attacks, including damage, done to Tentacool during your opponent's next turn.
    [W] Mysterious Beam: Flip a coin, if heads discard 1 Energy attached to the Defending Pokemon.

    Weakness: Lightning (+10)
    Resistance: none
    Retreat: 1


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tentacruel LV.37 – Water – HP90
    Stage 1 – evolves from Tentacool

    [.] Tentacle Tease: Choose up to 2 Energy cards from your opponent's discard pile, and attach them to your opponent's Pokemon in any way you like. Then, do 20 damage to each of your opponent's Pokemon that had Energy attached, for each Energy card you attached.
    [W][C][C] Dangerous Toxin: 60 damage. If Tentacruel has fewer Energy cards attached to it than the Defending Pokemon, the Defending Pokemon is now Poisoned and Paralyzed.

    Weakness: Lightning (+20)
    Resistance: none
    Retreat: 1
    Chinchou LV.15 – Water – HP60
    Basic Pokemon

    [C] Supersonic: Flip a coin, if heads the Defending Pokemon is now Confused.
    [W] Splash: 10 damage.

    Weakness: Grass (+10)
    Resistance: none
    Retreat: 2


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lanturn LV.39 – Water – HP90
    Stage 1 – Evolves from Chinchou

    [C][C] Wild Current: 20 damage. Move 1 Energy attached to the Defending Pokemon to one of your opponent's other Pokemon. (If your opponent only has 1 Pokemon in play, ignore this effect.)
    [W][L] Confuse Ray: 40 damage. The Defending Pokemon is now Confused.

    Weakness: Grass (+20)
    Resistance: none
    Retreat: 1

    Chinchou LV.13 – Lightning – HP50
    Basic Pokemon

    [C] Razor Fin: 10 damage.
    [L][C] Aqua Spark: 20 damage. If Chinchou has any Water Energy attached to it, this attack does an additional 10 damage.

    Weakness: Fighting (+10)
    Resistance: none
    Retreat: 1


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lanturn LV.43 – Lightning – HP90
    Stage 1 – Evolves from Chinchou

    [L] Energy Split: Does 30 damage to each of your opponent's Pokemon that has any Energy attached to it.
    [L][C][C] Aqua Bolt: Does 60 damage plus an additional 10 damage for each Water Energy attached to Lanturn.

    Weakness: Fighting (+20)
    Resistance: none
    Retreat: 2

    Translations from Pokebeach.
     
  2. Umbreon777

    Umbreon777 New Member

    At first I realized that Tentacruel could only damage whatever had energy, but then I saw the Lanturn, and all was clear. Other than I relistic counter to Kingdra, I can see this as being a very smooth deck.

    Good luck with it. :D
     
  3. Vengence Dragon

    Vengence Dragon New Member

    Ampharos makes the deck sound alright, but not alright enough.
     
  4. ShinySwampert

    ShinySwampert New Member

    It's actually great. Ampharos works perfectly. Put 2 W on Amphy and discard 1 L to do 70 and 20 to all benched Pokemon with energy. AND punish for supporters. The combo is undeniably perfect. With 2 Amphy set up, the spread is ridiculous. Amphy was made for this combo.
     
  5. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    This is the first next format deck that I had tested, and I did a lot of it.
    It beats Kingdra. that's a given.
    And it can definitely hold it's own against most every other deck.
    I played my Pokemon line like this.
    3-3 Lanturn
    2-2 Tentacruel
    2-2 Azelf Lv X
    2-2 Claydol
    2-1-1 Deoxys (Normal, Speed, Attack)

    Lanturn and Tentacruel are a given.
    What the Azelf does is because you are forcing their energy onto the field with Tentacruel you can hit anywhere for a good 60 for 1 energy very easily.
    And the Deoxeys give you a great straight up attacker. The normal form does 20+ 10 for each energy they have in play, which lets you easily hit for 80ish for 2. I was able to do an easy 120 a turn with it against a Leafeon deck. Sceptile is going to be popular and since that gives all Grass extra energy, it also gives you extra damage.
    The speed and Attack forms were more of techs to go with the Normal. The Speed form has free retreat and lets me do a quick 30 anywhere.
    The Attack does 3 for 80, which is nice if they aren't giving you any energy to work with.

    I do like the Ampharos idea though. I will mess with that one as well.
    I think both versions will prove to work very well and can definitely hold their own against all other decks.

    And don't forget about TMs-2 or whatever it's called. Its the one that devo's one of your opponents Pokemon.
    Very handy indeed.
     
  6. ShinySwampert

    ShinySwampert New Member

    Gotta use Amphy. Too good. Early Ampharos is death for opponents.

    TM Whatever!? That's a great idea!
     
  7. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    How can it be underestimated if the cards haven't even been printed in english yet?

    All the stuff you read about LA/IFDS cards on the Pokegym is just hype. You can't determine how good cards will be until you go to the big tournaments and play against the best of the best. You can get an idea, but there is no way to know how well it will do at events. That is why I take all the LA/IFDS talk on this forum with a grain of salt.

    I wouldn't worry about if "TurnCruel" will be the underestimated champion of the next format. We don't even know if people will play that deck at events yet. Also, nobody knows what cards will be in the set after IFDS. I doubt we will see a single deck dominate the entire season like we did this season.
     
  8. ChaosKnuckles

    ChaosKnuckles New Member

    master of puppets: I like your idea on the pokemon line. It gives the deck many options, reminds me of Absolutions.

    The Ampharos idea looks good, But it causes you to play Rare Candy.
     
  9. ShinySwampert

    ShinySwampert New Member

    And cause mass destruction when your opponent plays supporters! Irresistible!

    Wait... does Jamming stack? Edit: Nope.

    Still great if you play it early. Cluster Bolt is a great spread attack with a good cost for when Lanturn is KOed.
     
  10. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    Mine worked great without Ampharos, although I do like the sound of that version.
    People seem to like my list. Does that mean I invented it? loljk
     
  11. PokemansForGeeks

    PokemansForGeeks New Member

    I applaud you Prime. All of this Kingdra hype is so sickening. It's like somehow Kingdra has suddenly won a million tournaments and is the play for Worlds '09. Somehow I doubt it.
     
  12. Dr. Mason

    Dr. Mason New Member

    I'm just talking DP-LA format ;)

    I dont like the Deoxys idea to be honest. AMU will eat that up.
     
  13. Banette EX

    Banette EX New Member


    well thats a good thing right??
     
  14. Wood811

    Wood811 New Member

    MoP is right, ampharos isn't needed, a stage 2 is clunky and doesn't seem as feasable as the deoxys, azelf. . Also I like the pokemon line although I would drop the other forms of deoxys( keep normal only).
     
  15. Dr. Mason

    Dr. Mason New Member

    If you think you're right,I'll take any challenege, my list vs. yours :D
     
  16. G-Dog4377

    G-Dog4377 New Member

    I think this deck is a very cool spread idea. It is probably more reliable than most of the stuff involving Bronzong, because you will undoubtably be able to do damage no matter what pokemon your opponent uses. Bronzong doesn't work very well unless your opponent abuses Powers. Pardon me for being a fanboy for my own deck idea for next format, but I can't see this ever finding a way to beat Magnezone. It can resist 20 damage from Tentacruel with Special Metal Energy, and will gladly accept the energy from the discard. The even bigger problem this deck would face is the fact that I can choose what Lanturn can damage. Wouldn't really have to worry about Dangerous Toxin either. What would you do about combating Magnezone?
     
  17. (TYranitarFReak)

    (TYranitarFReak) New Member

    I think every good spread deck should have an attack that can dish out a lot of damage (OHKO) or else heals will just laugh off ur pathetic spread.

    On magnezone.... i think u didnt read his post clearly enough. Azelf X and deoxys is the answer.
     
  18. Dr. Mason

    Dr. Mason New Member

    :/ I still dont see Azelf and Deoxys being as good as Ampharos. I've recently stuck in 3 Mesprit LA as techs against Magnezone, and that's my defense. I'll figure out somethin else later. I still don't like Azelf or Deoxys though ;D
     
  19. supertyranitar

    supertyranitar New Member

    I see this deck actually doing decently well, though it's a great counter against Kingdra, I'd say that with Absol it just gets a little better. However, I wish Cess. Crystal would still be about to make it even more deadly. I'm not sure what other decks it'll be able to take out at this point in time, but I suppose we'll all see.
     
  20. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    You can not like it, thats fine, but don't bash it or say it doesn't work (so far so good) because I have been testing that list against various things and it is VERY good.
    Much faster than the Ampharos one, I can assume, and it doesn't need the Rare Candies like Ampy does.
    Although I am sure that the Ampharos is a force to be reckoned with.
    I think it's more of a preference, Amparos version is for a bigger bulkier list, whereas my Azelf/Deoxys version is for a faster, more consistent version.
    What I like about the Deoxys is that it can easily pump out large amounts of damage, for low energy.
    And because nothing in my list takes more than 1 energy to attack, other than Deoxys, I can have a low energy count, and still be just fine with it.
     

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