Undefeated Indianapolis CC report

Discussion in 'City Championships' started by Umbreon777, Dec 22, 2007.

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  1. Umbreon777

    Umbreon777 New Member

    Beforehand, I apologize for not knowing the names of some of my opponents. If you recognize the match, inform me if you can on who it was.

    I played Gallevoir with Furret and Stantler. 5 rounds of swiss and T4.

    Round 1 - vs ???? with Sandslash/Machamp

    I get a decent hand and start using Furret early. After I got my Gallade and Gard set up, it was hard for her to come back. Everytime she sent up a new pokemon, I flipped over another prize and KO'd it.


    Round 2 - vs Henry F. with Magnezone stall

    A friend of mine from school, he plays his deck by sending out Magnemites and Bronzors to stall while he sets up a huge Magnezone. There was no damage done for quite a few turns. Once I set up 2 Gallades, the combination of Sonic Blade and Psy Cut got the best of him. Quite a long game.



    Burger King is disgusting. But its nice when you dont have to pay for it. :rolleyes:

    Round 3 - vs James A. (DragonairMaster8) with Feraligatr/Gardevoir/Absol

    This was by far the weirdest deck I have ever seen. He starts with Absol and I Stantler. I got lucky a few times when he bailful winded the wrong cards. I managed to get a Gallade and DRE out, while he kept discarding. At one point I had rare candy and Stantler in my hand, and he got the Stantler. I topdecked Gardy. :thumb: Finally ignoring his discard, I KO'd 3 Absol with Psy Cut. He was quite unfortunate to not get a Gardevoir out the entire game, so I proceeded to knock out his Gatrs and win the game.


    Round 4 - vs ???? with Magmortar/Arcanine

    My opening hand was Ralts, Candy, Celio, DRE, and others. I go second and pull a Roseanne. I play Celio, candy to Gallade, DRE, and Sonic Blade for 20 to a lone Magmar. He Mentors for more basics and does Smog with 2 PP's for 40 and poison. I use Roseanne for a Sentret and energy. I attach and Psy Cut. Throughout the duration of the game, that T3 setup just killed his entire game.


    Round 5 - Matt G. with BufferBliss

    He got 2 mulligans, and I start with Minun. :nonono: Im not sure exactly what happened, but I remember rare candying a played Senret into Furret to get set-up. Even though he had FF's, Buffers, and Drake, I managed to win through a combination of Sonic Blade and Psy Cut.


    Top 4 - vs Matt G. with BufferBliss

    Both games really happened the same way. Him having weakness to my godly set-up resulted in him losing the first 2 games in under 20 minutes. A surprise Lake Boundary helped me a lot. At one point, I didnt play a Ralts on my bench, giving me 5 cards in my hand. He played Copycat next turn, and his 5th card was exactly what he needed. Blissey. I still won, but I could have done it faster.


    Top 2 - vs James A. (DragonairMaster8) with Feraligatr/Gardevoir/Absol

    The first game was rather quick. Even though his bailful winds hurt, he had troubles setting up and I still managed to set up a nice Gallade for some KO's. He scoops after I take 3 prizes.

    The second game was EPIC. I cant get ANY evolutions really early. I had a Ralts with 3 energy, and his Absol discarded the useless junk in my hand. This time he actually got quite set-up. I managed to pull Celios with Stantler and got myself Kirlia and Gardevoir, slowly... After the Gardy was on my field, the supporter play improved greatly. We both had Stevens Advice, and 5-6 pokemon on our bench. This game was very back and forth once I got my Gallade out and started to actually do something. I knocked out his Gardy Lv X with a PP'd Psy Lock. In the meantime, his set-up was depleting. By the end I had 2 prizes, 9 cards in my deck, and a warp point in hand. All I had to do was KO his Feraligatr so he sends out Gardy, and next turn warp point and knock out either Totodile or Absol. Once I KO Gatr, he wagers. (I have 9 cards in my deck) I win and get 6. No warp point. He KO's to my Gallade. I bring out Gardy and draw. Not it. I use MINUN's minus charge, and get the last 2. It was on bottom. I play it, switch to my benched Gallade, flip a prize and do 80 to his active Crocnaw. VERY good game.


    So, horray for Dustin. Going 7-0 (technically 9-0). Its the first tournament where I really feel successful.

    Going undefeated
    Matt G. and Tracy K. for coming down from Michigan
    Henry F. for buying me lunch and placing 7th. :smile:
    Winning a raffle for 3 packs, and getting Crawdaunt EX
    Good attendance for a central Indy tournament

    An accidental ruling made that cuased Tracy K. to lose a game when she should have won
    Burger King for being... bad
    Having to use the restroom about 12 times while I was there.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2007
  2. Snowball21

    Snowball21 New Member

    Congrats! You know I didn't want to play Blissey, but I had no choice with so much random dark being played. Though, the ruling against Tracy won't go unnoticed, I promise everyone that. It doesn't matter if someone(headjudge/pto) apologizes because they made the wrong ruling. When a game loss is the result of a players error and no one in the tournament can make the correct ruling, you know there are problems.
  3. billbilski

    billbilski New Member

    Congrats! Going undefeated is always a big accomplishment. BTW I like your deck choice:wink:
  4. aade8

    aade8 New Member

    If you had further problems with me, you should have said so when I asked you. I gave a truly HEARTFELT apology to both you and Tracy. What am I supposed to do? Would you like me permanently suspended. Don't think I didn't see you guys talking about me behind my back. I knew things weren't resolved. I took the hit, you know, this already shows up on MY record for judging. Is that not enough?
  5. spoinkmaster

    spoinkmaster New Member

  6. meganium45

    meganium45 Active Member


    Sounds like a mistake was made, and apologized for. Happens to the best of us.

    No judge likes to make mistakes, or get their name run through the mud.

    Talking, grovel, grovel, behind their back....not real mature.

    Doesn't sound like there was malice, or someone intentionally being messed over.

    It is best for all to move on.


    Congrats on a great 7-0 day!
  7. Snowball21

    Snowball21 New Member

    The mistake was reversable before the next round started and neither the head judge or the PTO did anything to change it. I don't blame the head judge AFTER the ruling was made. From that point, it went straight to Dennis who could have altered the results, even after the head judge said he had made the wrong ruling. Please explain how that is fair at all? That seems much more than simple mistake when they refuse to change it while the round is still going and the headjudge is even there telling him he had made a mistake. Who sounds mature now?
  8. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    I have heard what the judging error was and the player that got the incorrect ruling would not deserve an autoloss bc the judge screwed up. If the other player didnt agree with the ruling, why wasnt an appeal made on the spot instead after the game itself?? No judge/PTO can correct an incorrect ruling after the match is over. The results stand....time to move on. Mistakes happen....at least the judge in question had the guts to come here and admit his mistake in a separate thread.

    Congrats on your undefeated day Umbreon!


    EDIT: Snowball.....trust me, there was nothing Dennis (PTO) could do once the game was over. The results could not be changed. A player cannot protest 15-20 mins later, after they took the loss. The appeal needs to be immediate.
  9. Snowball21

    Snowball21 New Member

    If the correct ruling would have been game loss, it shouldn't matter if the judge miscalled it. A game loss is a game loss. It isn't like it would have been played out further or the game could have taken a different turn. Changing to a game loss should still be doable while the round is still going on. Also, there was a questionable call also to what her opponent had inhand before shuffling his hand away and if he actually had it in hand before. This was literally minutes after the game had ended, not 15-20 minutes later like you are presuming.
  10. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    Once the results slip is signed (barring an error in that), there is no way to change a result. The game was over, both players signed off, no appeal was made by the player when the ruling (good or bad) was made. I understand the judge admitted their error, but the PTO is in a real bind at that point. There is nothing in the rules to allow a GL to be given to a player when the JUDGE made the error! How is that fair to the other player? Yes, a game play error occured and should have been dealt with correctly when it occurred. Factors to consider.....age group, severity of error, game state, etc. There are many factors to look at when coming up with the correct penalty. BUT, not when an appeal isnt made right then and there, before any other game action takes place!

  11. Snowball21

    Snowball21 New Member

    I can't speak for her beyond what I already have. All I can say is that this is far beyond a "simple" mistake like all the judges on here seem on saying it is. No penalty given on something that is always a game loss? Clearly someone doesn't know penalty guidelines.
  12. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Here's a big point for you to consider, then.
    The correct ruling would not have been game loss.
    With that bit of information, how does that change your feeling?
  13. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    Snowball: You must play much more than you judge bc the error in question would not be an auto gameloss. Go read PokePop's response in Aade's thread to see what he and I are saying. I'd say 'Pop knows the penalty guidelines pretty well, along with the rules since he is on the ruling board!


    EDIT: 'Pop beat me to it here. He must type faster than I.
  14. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Clearly someone does not.
    This would not be a game loss penalty.
  15. Snowball21

    Snowball21 New Member

    It majorly changes how I feel. We were told because of the severity of it, it would have been a game loss. I don't know if the specifics behind what happened on her opponent's turn changes that to a game loss, but I think she would feel much better about the whole situation if that wasn't the correct penalty.

    Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

    I'm not trying to start fights by any means. I don't judge, nor do I pretend to be an expert on all the rulings. However, it is pretty clear when a penalty should be given, and at that point, if the judge or head judge doesn't know how to procede, it should be looked up.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2007
  16. evil psyduck

    evil psyduck Moderator Trader Feedback Mod

    Should the player have been given a warning or a penalty?
  17. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    I don't think we are seeing the whole situation presented here.
    Depending on what happened when and due to who's initiation, either no penalty at all or a penalty that falls short of game loss might have been appropriate.

    The point is, though, that it should not have been a Game Loss in any event and further, bringing it up after the ruling happened is too late. Players need to realize that if a judge makes a ruling they don't like, they need to appeal it there and then. From what I understand, they were given an opportunity to do so and declined.
    It's very easy to be a Monday morning quarter back (or even a 5 minute later quarterback), but the time for an appeal was at the time.

    Apologies were made and seemed to have been accepted at the time. The judge realizes the error. While the clock can't be turned back, take consolation in the fact that the error was not as radical as you initially though.
  18. TheDarkTwins

    TheDarkTwins Active Member

    Um, I am not gonna take sides, but last I checked shuffle your hand into your deck when you werent suppose to was an irreversible action. There is no way for a Judge to come over and figure out what was in the players hand without blindly trusting them. I am pretty sure that the floor rules state shuffle your hand into your deck is a game loss. I have never heard it being ruled any other way. So if that is the case, I want to know if you can point it out to me in the floor rules.


    P.S. - Dustin, Congrats on your win, WTG!! :thumb:

    Edit - I found the correct ruling in the resources -

    7.1.3. Severe
    In some cases, a game-play error occurs which irreparably breaks the game state.
    In these cases, there is no way that either player or a judge can reset the game to
    the point where it can be continued.
    In addition to the assigned penalty to the offending player, a Warning should be
    issued to the player’s opponent for not properly keeping track of game state and
    Examples of Game-Play Error: Severe include:
    • Shuffling your hand into your deck without the use of a card effect.
    • Shuffling your Prize cards into your deck without the use of a card effect.
    • Shuffling your discard pile into your deck without the use of a card effect.
    • Picking up your cards before both players agree on the game winner.
    Recommended Starting Penalty:
    Tier 1: Game Loss
    Tier 2: Game Loss

    I am not saying that this should of been the ruling but if a player shuffles there hand into there deck when they arent suppose to that would be my ruling. (points above) I dont know what happened but I just have what I have read and what has been posted to go on.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2007
  19. Umbreon777

    Umbreon777 New Member

    This debate makes me sad. :frown: I appreciate, however, the tid-bit sentences about my thread.
  20. Snowball21

    Snowball21 New Member

    Maybe the pic from South Bend CC will make you happy again? Then again, maybe that 2nd medal around your neck will do it too, lol!

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