Very Confused

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by League Leader Terry, Oct 6, 2003.

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  1. League Leader Terry

    League Leader Terry New Member

    First when I heard that E-ON was the new Modified, I was told that the Best of Promos weren't allowed. Now, I've seen more than one E-ON deck having Elms posted on here. I went to the Pokemon-e website and the Floor Rules says all promos numbered 001 and higher, which right now are just the 2 Ex promos and the League promos. So, why are people saying that Elm and Cleffa are legal for E-ON? Have I missed something here?
     
  2. TheDancingPeanut

    TheDancingPeanut New Member

    No, they are NOT legal. You know how people are...
     
  3. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    The best promos are not legal in Nintendo's modified format. So if you play in a SANCTIONED MODIFIED TOURNAMENT then no ELM etc.

    However,

    IF you aren't playing in a SANCTIONED tournament then you can do whatever you like...

    Since we aren't anticipating sanctioning in Europe anytime soon..we have our own versioin of EON which include the wotc BEST promos which we can get hold of and Excludes ALL the Nintendo promos that we can't get hold of. Since we are providing League and tournament play without any support from PUI it would be perverse if we were to handicap our players by following a format that was not designed with our players best interests at heart.

    So you will continue to see posts on the gym about EON tournaments with BEST allowed. We aren't happy about this but its all we have.
     
  4. farbsman

    farbsman New Member

    Hate to say this, but for once, I would rather be in Europe. I honestly think I would rather have the best promos in my tournaments and not have any of the Nintendo promos. Trust me, your not missing anything.

    I mean lets look at this.

    The Kyogre and Groudon EX are the only original promos. The rest are new art versions of already released cards. At least with the best promos, you have a variety. I actually will probably allow the best promos in my local league tournaments. We just will use a modified-modified format :)
     
  5. League Leader Terry

    League Leader Terry New Member

    Just for the record, NoPoke, I wasn't talking about decks posted by people who I know to be European like yourself. I remember you talking about your version of E-ON.
     
  6. dkates

    dkates New Member

    My guess is that most of those decks have been posted by people who did not know this at the time of posting. Just hours ago, I edited one of my decks where this was the case. I also had to drop Best Electabuzz. I think Best Buzz may be the reason the Best Promos were dropped, more so than even Elm. It stinks, though -- the Best Promos had not only the format's only non-Supporter card drawing, but useful Basics of various types that could have really helped some decks.
     
  7. TheDancingPeanut

    TheDancingPeanut New Member

    And they DID help some decks, for a very LONG time.
     
  8. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Point taken -- these are cards that were used often in the past. But many of them fill a purpose that is not easily filled in E-on. To be specific, most decks in E-on have two Evolution lines -- a Stage 2 and a Stage 1. But having only 8 Basics means people mulligan often. So to solve this, in come non-evolving Basics. Unfortunately, as is, we're fairly limited in that department. Not critically, thanks entirely to Sandstorm, but still. Having the Best Promos would give us a few more good choices. However, I can see why they would be left out. Electabuzz and Hitmonchan, specifically, could be considered a little too good. Rocket's Hitmonchan and Rocket's Mewtwo aren't as big a deal, because they're slower overall, but the original Buzz and Chan could be problematic -- they ran wild in the game's early years. Rocket's Sneasel could see some use, simply as a splashable Dark type, but is not too hard to counter, unlike Genesis Sneasel. Rocket's Scizor can't even be played, since Rocket's Scyther is unavailable, and the Dark Venusaur line is just not good enough that many people would play it, IMO. So there you have it. 8 Pokemon, of which 7 can be played, and 5 of which might be useful. 1 Trainer, which expands the options of card drawing -- an ability otherwise available only in the form of some attacks and a handful of Supporters. Hard to believe, isn't it, that I was able to write this much about the inclusion of what comes to 8 would-be legally playable cards in a format? (Can't count Rocket's Scizor, for reasons listed above)
     
  9. TheDancingPeanut

    TheDancingPeanut New Member

    You make some great points about the mechanics of a specific way to play the game - but that's all it is - one way to play the game. You can win with any type of deck. There are literaly thousands of card combinations that you can play - to think there are only 5 or 6 that will work is very close-mided.

    Part of the reason the new format is good, and why the format MUST continue to change, is becasue eventually, "power cards" start to become build up, and you get those unbeatable combos. It's better for the game when a 20-top tournment has 16 different main deck types, than when it has 8. Diversity is what keeps the game going forward.

    Frankly, I would rather lose with a novel deck idea and continue working and being creative, than to win just doing what's always been done.
     
  10. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Good point, Phoenix. There are many ways to play this game. Actually, part of the reason I started my Modified experimentation with E-on was because the archetypes have not been established yet.
    In Unlimited, from the moment I first played against someone outside my family, I had to start metagaming against certain decks. Soon I realized how difficult it is to win with even a well-made rogue in that format, and I became bored with Unlimited less than a year afterward.
    In E-on, I can still use some of the deckbuilding skills I picked up from Unlimited, adapt them, and come up with viable decks and combos that have, in most cases, not been explored that much yet. For me, the fun in this game is at least as much in deckbuilding as in playing.
    You said yourself, "Frankly, I would rather lose with a novel deck idea and continue working and being creative, than to win just doing what's always been done." Me, too. I like to do things a little differently from everyone else. Maybe I'll use a combo nobody else uses, maybe I'll use Pokemon many people ignore, maybe I'll just use cards in different amounts, but every deck I post has my own personal spin.
     
  11. mysterioustrainer

    mysterioustrainer New Member

    Rocket's Scizor is a Basic Pokemon. It does not require Rocket's Scyther.

    To all using Bests in what they think E-on, sorry the deck is unlimited. And for those posting decks in the deck forum that have bests in them please for sanity's sake mark it unlimited. We don't need to get even more Psyduck.
     
  12. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Boo-Hoo, I miss my elmie. I SURELY can't survive without my elmie. It's just a card and IMHO, there are and were better cards out there.
     
  13. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Oops, so it is. My mistake. Guess that's what happens when you don't do your homework. Now, the question is, could it affect much? Well, it's a non-evolving Metal Basic with fairly cheap Energy costs, especially for its type, and an attack capable of doing 40 before Weakness/Resistance and possibly rendering itself invulnerable for a turn. I could see it splashed in to some decks, but I doubt many people would use it even if they could. So, it could have an effect, but I doubt it would be a large one. Still, my general point is unchanged. We're talking about 9 cards, each of which has its uses, and most of which are just powerful enough for their presence to be noticeable. Them not being there makes the format a little different, but it ultimately is not a big deal. We can and will adapt, as we always have when the game has changed. Do I wish they were in? Yes. Does not having them change how much I enjoy E-on? No. I just have to pull from a very slightly smaller card pool than I thought I would.
     
  14. Tego

    Tego New Member

    They really should change the rules about Promos, and allow Nintendo Promos AND Best Of Promos. There is one single reason why Elm was in Best Of, and that was to help future Modified formats. Please Nintendo, allow Best Of... Wizards weren't stupid.
     
  15. dkates

    dkates New Member

    At the very least, I would like to know why they are not allowed. If someone who was involved in the decision (or someone who is qualified to speak for them) could state, in the simplest correct way possible, why these cards were not permitted into E-on, I would greatly appreciate it, and I am sure others would, too.
     
  16. Ez1

    Ez1 New Member

    I don't know Ninetendo's thought process but perhaps by dropping the promo's
    they can eliminate the ones that limit the game(buzz in particular) and
    later add back cards like elm in future series?????

    I don't know what i don't know.
     
  17. dkates

    dkates New Member

    You may note in one of my earlier posts that I pointed to 3 cards out of the Best Promos that would be likely to change the game: Professor Elm, Electabuzz, and Hitmonchan.
    Professor Elm would be a good change, IMO -- only having Supporters for card-drawing is NOT a good thing. The trends for E-on do make Professor Elm's drawback a lot less powerful than it once was, but it is still noticeable.
    Hitmonchan, though powerful, has one fatal flaw -- Psychic Weakness, which is exploited easily in E-on. Especially if it were ruled to play as the Best version (in other words, with 60 HP as opposed to 70), it would speed up the game, but not ruin it. Even without such a ruling, I am confident that E-on can easily handle Hitmonchan. Of course, it could limit play of Colorless types and Electric types, so it should be watched.
    Electabuzz, as I mentioned before, could be a different story. It could make Water difficult to play. It may only do a maximum of 40 damage, but it does it for 2 Energy, namely (L)(C). And with Electric Resistance being relatively rare, Electabuzz would have little to worry about. Don't get me wrong -- I have long liked the card, but I think it may be too powerful to allow in E-on. However, it can easily be banned separately from the other Best Promos.
    Honorable mentions go to Rocket's Hitmonchan and Rocket's Mewtwo. Those cards, in addition to Elm, I would play in some E-on decks, given the chance. Rocket's Hitmonchan is not as powerful as its Base set brother, but it can (pardon the pun) pack quite a punch. Its second attack is nearly as powerful as Hitmonchan ex's (lacking only the no-Resistance advantage), and its first attack is useful, too. With only 60 HP, it's not going to be especially hard to counter.
    Rocket's Mewtwo would give Psychic decks, which are already quite powerful, yet another powerful contender. One of very few cards ever made with 3 attacks, it's a very powerful card if used right. Many of the strategies that could break it are not E-on legal, such as Focus Band. I think more than a few players would seriously consider it for slots otherwise devoted to Mewtwo ex.
    Of course, I still don't know whether Nintendo was even thinking along lines similar to these, let alone the same ones. As I said earlier, I would greatly appreciate some insight as to how the fate of the Best Promos was decided. Given the chance to examine their reasoning, I could then help in the attempt to convince Nintendo to change their minds about this decision, or perhaps decide to lay the matter to rest. The latter is less likely, though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2003
  18. TheDancingPeanut

    TheDancingPeanut New Member

    Debatable.
     
  19. mysterioustrainer

    mysterioustrainer New Member

    Lets just say that some of wizards wasn't stupid. No 15+ that was a stupid idea!
     
  20. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    The following is an over simplfication however..

    Cancelling 15+ was a very good idea for WotC/Hasbro. Bad for us perhaps, but good for Hasbro. Magic:tg was having a hard time under the onslaught from pokémon. Something HAD to be done.
     
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