What separates the pros from the above average?

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by prodigal_fanboy, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. prodigal_fanboy

    prodigal_fanboy New Member

    I was watching the finals of a fairly large cities tournament yesterday, and it really made me wonder (still in the context of the cities metaphor here): what separates third place from first? Returning to the concrete question, what should someone do to prepare themselves as best as possible for competition on the national scale?
     
  2. Jayson

    Jayson New Member

    1. Practice
    2. Practice
    3. Practice
    4. Practice with the right people
     
  3. ralis

    ralis New Member

    hmmmm.
    this is tough.
    well here is my opineon.

    i was a noob then my dad saw the value in pkmn cards
    now he is seller on ebay and i can borrow any cards i need from him.

    in my opineon what seprates the pros from the noobs is a good lot of cards to build decks with.
    and jayson.
    to quote chris/raichu.
    "there are 2 cards of pkmn card players
    ones that can pick up a deck and do good with it without practice.
    and ones who have to play with it over and over to be good with it."

    so practice for some people is not needed
     
  4. revdjweb

    revdjweb New Member

    luck. the line between first place and third place is so razor thin as to be nearly arbitrary, at least in these high turn out events we have in oregon.

    practice and consistency are the keys to long term success. consistency of play from event to event, consistency of how well your deck sets up, knowing how your deck runs so you know what to do in every situation, making as few game play errors as possible.
     
  5. Brady1

    Brady1 New Member

    A good thing to do is to actually look at every set and memorize what cards do (not that hard if you go to drafts/pres). Knowing what cards you are facing is nessicary, espically when it does something really crazy and can hurt you. If you didn't know what dusknoir did and hit it for 90 damage with your only pokemon in play, then you probably misplayed and that is goin to cost you the match. Simple things like knowin what things do and how they could combo make a big difference in game.
     
  6. Dennis Hawk

    Dennis Hawk New Member

    The things that make a player great in this game (from low to high):

    Knowing basic gameplay
    Knowing cards
    Owning cards
    Knowing meta and common strategies
    Experience
    Knowing your individual strenghts and utilizing them
    Knowing other's individual weaknesses and utilizing them
    Reputation

    Luck is something you can't place there, it's like a random modifier. These are, of course, terms for long term success, and mostly specify if one's record is positive or negative in the long run and won't help you if you get an autoloss matchup in a random game, but these are the reasons we're seeing same names in the top cuts from year to year.
     
  7. Rambo1000

    Rambo1000 New Member

    the answer is playtesting. you won't be good unless you playtest enough to get a feel for the game. you have to be able to look at the game state and make the right play at all the right times. good players don't misplay. if they do, it usually isn't anything important.
     
  8. smacktack15

    smacktack15 New Member

    How to know a good player is look at his area...
    If your area is jammed pack with great players, then you should become above-average in no time
    If you determine what the weaknesses are of your opponents and if you find patterns within decks, strategies, etc. then you are a Poke-Pro,
     
  9. Wood811

    Wood811 New Member

    Luck is a huge factor. What happens when all 4 candies or both claydols were prized? Did you get outplayed bcoz you didn't have enough skill to not prize those cards? I think all players eventually level off at a certain skill. If they all have the same skill what makes one better than the other? The coin toss or prizes or dead hands. Luck.
     
  10. Ardoptres

    Ardoptres New Member

    If you want to get good, play with people who are already good. And use Pokegym. It helps in the beginning.
     
  11. headsrcool

    headsrcool New Member

    Simply put, the best players want it more.
     
  12. paint panic

    paint panic New Member

    Luck is important in the short term, but there's a reason that you see the same people making top cut tournament after tournament, and that's skill. If you take 50 random people of different skill levels and get them to play 100 tournaments against each other, you'll see a lot of the same faces in each top cut.
     
  13. Zangoosed

    Zangoosed New Member

    what are you people talking about???

    You guys are all wrong in your explanations.

    The only thing that separates a good player from an average player is that a good player can flip more heads on a coin flip whenever they need to. Duh!

    A real Pokemon Master knows this to be true.

    lol :wink:
     
  14. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    Ha, as if. Making mincemeat out of an awful draw tests your consistency. If this were true, the people who go to Worlds each year would be completely random. There's a lotttttt of above average players. Like, 400 maybe in the US.

    Of course, that isn't true, that Worlds is random. It isn't all luck based, otherwise, people like David Atanassov, Silvestro, and Gino (up until this year) wouldn't be getting invites every year without even getting top 4 at Worlds. It is skill, and the "pro" (i prefer the term "really good," considering nobody makes a living off of Pokemon winnings) players all qualify consistently every year from rating or top cut at nats. It isn't luck, or else these players wouldn't be consistently doing well.
     
  15. ShadowGuard

    ShadowGuard <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    Luck actually is a huge factor. For the third year in row, our Masters National Champion hasn't been a "pro gamer" - even if you still see the same faces in top cut most of the times.

    With the new top cut system, luck becomes even more important. You aren't in top cut if you go 4-1, you also need to have a good TieBreaker. And how do you get one? Have a bye first turn, avoid getting donked first turn, rely on your opponents' success. None of the things that help to raise your TieBreaker need much skill. At the last city championship I attended there were 7 (!) players with 4-1 or better to a top 4 cut. I was 4th place in the final standings and got the chance to compete for the title, but I don't play any better than the ones going 4-1 and beeing ranked 5th to 7th.

    However, the question what seperates a good player from an average player is a completely different question than the one what seperaties the first from the third.

    The answer to the second question is in at least half of the cases: the opponent they got in semifinals, in other words, the luck of having 1% more or less TieBreaker score. If third and first faced each other, it also can be a matter of matchup.

    The answer to the actual question has already been given. Practice, card and meta deck knowledge, ability to make the best of the situation. There are games you really need to think what's the best thing to do, and those are the games where skilled players will win against average players.
     
  16. Varna

    Varna New Member

    I would have to say that skill and luck are both hugely important parts of this game, and you won't get into the top cut without a good amount of both.
     
  17. Suicide

    Suicide New Member

    The difference between a Pro and an average player like in most card games is being able to see the combos that emerge amongst many different cards and being able to discern which combos have the best synergy together. However unlike in other card games in pokemon luck is much more significant than in games like magic the gathering or in yugioh. In those games you opening hand isn't as important because in both games, or at least magic the gathering, one can have a mulligan or better put shuffle his hand and draw a new one. In pokemon your opening hand is probably the most important part of the game, because it determines if your going to do be able to set up. this is even more important now because of the many different donking decks that take advantage of you if you can't setup properly. Luck also plays a big factor in who goes first because if you face a deck that donks and you only have one pokemon by the end of turn one then your opponent will most likely win.

    However as much as a role luck plays in pokemon skill is even more important. As I like to often say deck building is not about the pokemon contained within but about how much one can reduce chance. What I mean by saying this is that when building a deck one must be able to think about how certain cards will add or take away from ones ability to play. You will always see in many pro players decks the ability to perform many actions per a turn and the ability to have draw and search power. Of course the amount of draw power one has is very important because the faster one can go through a deck the faster they can get what they need. Then of course search power comes into play. While draw power is necessary i isn't always reliable so to help players along they add cards that will allow them to search for the cards they need at the right time.

    And finally the last bit of ability a pro has that an above average player may not is the ability to think things through. This is an ability found in all games that require skill. The ability to know what your opponent can and will do as well as being able to play the correct cards in the correct way at the correct time are very key parts to any pro player. The difference between the above average and the pro player is that a pro player makes less mistakes in the long run while an above average player may make many mistakes that prove fatal to their game play. As many say knowledge is power and in this case it is true because knowledge of your own deck and your opponent's deck is very important as it lets you be able to make good moves.

    These are difference between an above average player and a pro player.
     
  18. Articjedi

    Articjedi New Member

    Pros always stay one step ahead of the competition. You play a successful deck, everyone else copies it, you pick a different deck to counter, or use a different tech next week.
     
  19. Wood811

    Wood811 New Member

    Replies above in bold.
     
  20. pinkertonfan

    pinkertonfan New Member

    Pros got like skills and stuff.
     

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