What to do about bad gym leader.

Discussion in 'Archive' started by yoshi1001, Sep 28, 2003.

  1. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    Okay, this all started last week at league, when my gym leader here in Lacrosse, when he mentioned that Rare Candy could be used to evolve on the first turn. For those of you not up-to-date on rulings, you can't. Anyway, I point this out to him. Of course, he disagrees. Later, the issue comes up of whether Muk stops Poke-Bodies and Poke-Powers (it does). He says it doesn't.

    No, of course, I'm not used to being disagreed with on established rulings. Generally I'm used to being considered an interationally known expert on rulings. However, I'm the new guy in town, so I figure I'll just print off some rulings from the compendium, bring them to league. That should solve it.

    It didn't. The gym leader basically ignored my undeniable evidence, stating that he was in charge and he would decide the rules. He even went so far as to bite the paper I had printed the rulings on. Additionally, he announced he was building a Blastoise/Azumarril deck, a deck specifically designed to take advantage of his misruling. He justified all this by stating he was in compliance with 99% of rulings, and that he was just trying to keep things "fun."

    But "fun" doesn't justify what he's done. He's cheating those kids, forcing them to learn another set of rules that they won't be able to use anywhere else. This is why "house rules" aren't allowed in organized play.

    So, what do I do? Go above him?

    By the way, here's a picture of the bite, for those of you who are into that kind of stuff.

    http://members.aol.com/yoshi1001/bite.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2003
  2. SD PokeMom

    SD PokeMom Mod Supervisor Staff Member

    Go above him, where?
    I suppose you could try reporting him to POP, but there's always the chance they could just shut the league down; are you willing to risk that?

    Is the GL playing as well as GLing? Is that why he's making decks to take advantage of his misinterpretation of the rules and 'win' promos? Is he an employee of the store?

    Unless the store owner is willing to give YOU veto power over the GL the owner has selected...you can either try and convince him by _politely_ giving him the links to the rulings forum here on the 'gym, the Master Rulings, and the Compendium, so he can see for himself... or use the "I'm an internationally known expert on rules, so you'd better listen to me since you don't know what you're talking about" approach. Sounds like...from YOUR OWN POST...that you used the latter, so the GL is not going to be inclined to listen, IMO...and everyone loses.

    'mom
     
  3. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    "Go above him, where?
    I suppose you could try reporting him to POP, but there's always the chance they could just shut the league down; are you willing to risk that?"

    That did come to mind-including the potential risk.

    "Is the GL playing as well as GLing? Is that why he's making decks to take advantage of his misinterpretation of the rules and 'win' promos? Is he an employee of the store?"

    Yes. Hard to say-He generally just keeps a few extras of the promos. No, he is not an employee to my knowledge.

    "Unless the store owner is willing to give YOU veto power over the GL the owner has selected...you can either try and convince him by _politely_ giving him the links to the rulings forum here on the 'gym, the Master Rulings, and the Compendium, so he can see for himself... or use the "I'm an internationally known expert on rules, so you'd better listen to me since you don't know what you're talking about" approach. Sounds like...from YOUR OWN POST...that you used the latter, so the GL is not going to be inclined to listen, IMO...and everyone loses."

    As far as I know, he doean't have a computer, so giving him links to sites probably wouldn't help. I did bring in a copy of the Compendium EX, and well, as you can see, he took a bite out of it (well, not out of it, but you get an idea). Basically his stance is "I know I'm wrong but I don't really care because I know what's good for my league better than the people who make the game."

    Furthermore, I should point out that another member of the league looked up the ruling as well and informed the GL that he was wrong. He chose to ignore this as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2003
  4. Dek

    Dek New Member

    Well, you have a few choices then:
    1. Find another league
    2. Write a letter to POP/Pokemon USA about this story (even though you would risk the league's existance, this is one league that SHOULD be shut down, IMO)
    3. Call a few card stores/toy stores and ask them if you can start a league there using the POP official rules.
    And my personal favorite...
    4. Battle him to see who becomes the league Gym Leader :lol:

    That's all I can think of for now...
     
  5. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    1. Not an option, unless I want to use a tank of gas every weekend.

    2. I am strongly concidering this option (I could ask for just a formal reprimand-it is, after all, my complaint).

    3. That would be hard to squeeze in all that between my classes and everything.

    4. I'd probably lose.
     
  6. Dek

    Dek New Member

    hhmmm...good point with gas prices these days...

    I would suggest this option the most because POP can then do something about it and, therefore, showing that you are right (which you are in this case)

    True...Unless you have a study hall, plan the league on a Saturday, and do all your homework on Friday :D

    Kingdra archetype, anyone?
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2003
  7. marril2k

    marril2k Member

    Ugh... I hate seeing leagues run incorrectly. Is this guy even a Pokemon Professor? If not, why not show him your Wizards Professor Program membership card (I know, I know... We dont have our PUI cards yet but...). That should maybe make him think 'hey, this guy could be right.'

    If he is a store empolyee, why not talk to the store manager? Explain your a Pokemon-e Professor, show him your membership card (wizards, hey its plastic... can't be made at home!), and explain that the league is be running incorrectly... and possibly run the league (offer to take care of it), or at least give you some veto power over this guy.

    An alternative i would look into is another location. See if you can get a new location going (libraries work with PUI too, your the 'store owner' in that case), then order the kits... and then maybe possibley seeing about telling PUI that league is being run incorrectly and invite the other players to your league. It seems evil and cruel... but thats what i would do if it was a rreeeaaaaaaaalllllllyyy badly run league and in your shoes.

    I feel bad that its being run wrong, and you are the new guy with not a lot of power yet, but hopefully you can find a way to change that.

    -marril
     
  8. DaytonGymLeader

    DaytonGymLeader New Member

    If he's not doing right by the kids and the game iself, get the league members together and take it to the store's management.

    Voting with your feet is ALWAYS an option. Store managers will usually listen when a group of customers voice their opinion.

    About the only thing that PUI will do, IMO, is pull the current store's ability to run the league. Take it in steps, not directly to the top.
     
  9. Dek

    Dek New Member

    marril2k has a good point. Let the Gym Leader know that you are a Pokemon Professor (like marril said, the card is made of plastic. he can't bite through that :lol: ), explain to him that some of the rules are "not up to date" (its the most appropriate excuse I can think of). If the GL is still ignorant and "Im the top of the world," take the other kid that you mentioned, talk to the manager about it, and have the manager do something about it.
     
  10. cattdreams

    cattdreams New Member

    Taking it to store management is what I think the best option would be. However, I would try to arrange for a meeting with both the store owner and the current gym leader. Perhaps with the store owner being there between you two he will provide good mediation and all parties will act like adults.

    If speaking with the store owner does not help, then I suppose you could write a formal letter of complaint to pop complete with names and steps taken. Thats assuming that they are a registered league location. if they are not. then hey, they get to do the rules how they like, and you should find or start another league, perferably an offical one.
     
  11. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    It's an official league.
     
  12. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    Keep on trying to explain to the players of that league, that when the official tournaments will start they will be not able to play regional, international tournaments if they are not following the compendium rules.
    I don't think that will work a lot, but you warned them
    They will find out at the time there are official tournaments with the grandfathered Profs judging.
     
  13. Gym Leader Blaine

    Gym Leader Blaine <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/member.php?u=15

    It sounds like Mom said that they guy is just using the mis-ruling just so he can win the promos. The bad thing about this is when there is another PUI tournament in the area where Rare Candy is used that this guys leagues will think the card can be used in that way, and could hurt them cause of decks they might of made around the card.

    It sounds like the guy is unwilling to change his ruling to he can keep winning. I was you I would take the paper with the rulings and explane what is going on. Just make sure you don't show it to the GL cause he might try to eat it again ;) But talk with the owner and explane how this could hurt the league if he has a GL that is not willing to follow the rules and could scare away customers. That is why stores have leagues is to bring customers to the store and such.
     
  14. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Good suggestions here. But, until Nintendo officially establishes sanctioned OP, and this player uses his bad rulings at sanctioned tournaments, I'd say you're in a tough position. He's the Gym Leader, and "bad rulings or not", it's your job to at least respect his position. Do your best to convince him otherwise, but in the end, be tactful and respect his position. Afterall, it's only league play. Now, if this persists when OP sanctioned tournaments start, then maybe there's more merit in this gripe. JMO.

    PS. yoshi, me and many others know you're a seasoned expert on the rulings. However, this Gym Leader might not know you like we do. I'd back off and get to know him. DON'T go over his head immediately. That will alienate him even more. If he really is a bad person (and not just an unknowledgable GL), eventually, the owner will replace him. Good luck. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2003
  15. Tempo Stratoblaster

    Tempo Stratoblaster New Member

    Yoshi,

    Take it to the players. Tell everybody you play (one on one) in the league of this great site (compendium) which has the latest gameplay rulings from Nintendo directly!

    Give them a real card (a common is best) with the url written on it in ink (like a sharpies) so they will remember to go visit the site.

    Pretty soon, they'll be telling the gym leader too that they want to use the "official" rules.
     
  16. YoungJohn06

    YoungJohn06 New Member

    This is what I would do... and have done when people made bad rulings at my league... I play the way I know how... and if they're using "their" cheating rules to an advantage... I then beat them at their own game, make something better than what he comes up with and beat the crap out of him constantly til he sees things your way... and realizes "Hey my rules suck... I can't win with them.. I'd stand a better chance using the real ones" Or just ignore him when you're playing with other people and try and teach them your self... if that's an option lol.

    That's just what I would do... and have done. People cheat me.. I do it right back to them but better... it works normally. (I only do this in leagues... in big tournaments, I don't.)
     
  17. yoshi1001

    yoshi1001 New Member

    "Afterall, it's only league play."

    Is it? Remember, league is where it all starts, where people prepare for the big events. After all, is someone who never plays at the local level likely to do well at the big tournaments? Nope. Thus, what purpose does it serve to play with a set of rules that will not be used at higher levels.

    That being the case however, I can see that there are differing opinions on what I should do. It seems to me that since the GL is unwilling to listen to my case. so I basically have two options:

    1. Attempt to erode the GL's authority by becoming the go-to guy for rulings.

    2. Contact the store owner and explain my case.

    Right now I'm leaning towards number two, and will begin writing a letter to the owner.

    Any further comments will be appreciated.
     
  18. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Leagues are NOT tournament play. Sure, some might use leagues to prepare for tournaments, but leagues are meant to be casual or recreational. My players OFTEN use variations in the rules in order to try different twists and have fun. Who am I to tell them they can't do this because they're not strictly following the rules.

    Now, if your GL imposes his incorrect rulings in league play, even upon you, then just consider it as a challenge. Do you remember a couple years ago when Wizards Leagues used the GL Challenges to earn special stickers? Just look at it that way. JMO.

    yoshi, unless your GL acts as a tournament judge and imposes bad rulings during tournament play, why bother? IMO, don't take league play so seriously. Have fun with this incorrect ruling.
     
  19. Michel

    Michel New Member

    Good point and important question IMO.

    League play is not tournament play and I do completely agree on the fact that some GL allow certain rules variations to have more fun in some games.
    But this has to be announced, the players have to know that these rules are not official.

    Yoshi is right, league is where it all starts, where kids learn the game, and that MUST be done with the official rules.

    I've met in my country GL and TO's who did the same, play with quite special rules. I've even seen a head judge saying that Rainbow energy was a colourless energy on Sneasel. That was at the French Championship 2001 :D
    These people, except the last one, have accepted that they were making a mistake. They've read the Compendium and changed thair way of judging/playing.

    I have no good solution to Yoshi's question. Like it has been said, each solution can be good or bad.

    One thing must be kept in mind anyway; the quality of the GL. Once again, the GL is the key person in the 'lower level' of the game, if we consider that the ladder starts in the league and goes to the World championship. His role is one of the most important as he learns the game to the beginners, helps the players, prepares them for tournaments, ...

    Maybe should PUI ask the GL's to take a test, and why not to be Professor and take the Prof test. If someone wants to be GL, he has to be involved in the game (not only for getting more promos ;) ), and the test would also be a sign of his involvment.
     
  20. SD PokeMom

    SD PokeMom Mod Supervisor Staff Member

    As well meaning as it sounds, a 'test' for GLs would just be one more hoop to jump through and possibly lead to LESS Leagues, not more, IMHO...

    'mom
     

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