What To Expect From DP-On

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by PokemansForGeeks, Jul 18, 2008.

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  1. PokemansForGeeks

    PokemansForGeeks New Member

    Hey guys,

    I wrote this up as an article for my website and decided it should be seen publicly, haha ;x Anyway, I would love to have this as Featured Content on the Gym. Enjoy =)

    What to expect in the next format (Diamond/Pearl-on)

    As most of us finish up our tournament seasons after Nationals without an invite to the Big Show in August, the big question in everyone’s mind is going to be what the future holds. No, I’m not talking about which showing of The Dark Knight you’re going to, but in fact, which decks will play a large impact on the format of next year. It is common knowledge that the next format will consist of Diamond and Pearl onwards, but does anyone really know which decks will be played? Of course not, which is why I will be discussing a few key points within the course of the next few minutes.

    Speed Kills

    As most of you know, the beginning of the year saw a multitude of decks based on the concept of “T2 (Turn 2)” rise to power. These included Kricketune, Banette, Infernape, etc. What you saw was just the beginning of what I like to call “The Speed Era” in the Pokemon TCG.
    I was recently looking through some old cards when I came across a Neo Genesis Steelix. I looked at it and laughed when I realized that despite only having 110 HP as a Stage 1 (decent these days but not too great), his first attack did only 20 damage for 2 energy. His second attack however, did a whopping 30 damage and a possible 20 more with a flipped heads for 3 energy (1 metal, 2 colorless)!! Now, I’m not sure whether you played much during the good ol’ Neo days, but this guy was a HUGE player in the metagame. In fact, the first major tournament I won was with a Dark Blastoise/Steelix deck.
    The Pokemon TCG has evolved from a game of slow set-ups and beefy attacks to a game of speed. “What is the most efficient way of getting set-up the fastest and doing the most damage?” is now the question most players currently think of while deck-building. If you’re not setting up by turn 3 or 4, you most likely lost the game.

    With the loss of DRE, Scramble, and Boost this format's going to rely on massive energy acceleration to set-up ASAP. I see Togetic playing a huge part next year just based on the fact that it can be easily tech'ed into just about any deck and can get yout he 3-4 energy necessary to begin attacking. With that said, if you don't play some sort of energy acceleration or you're deck sets up after T3-4, you probably should rethink your deck's strategy.

    Are Pokemon on Steroids?

    I’m sorry, but Pokemon nowadays seriously need to be DNA-tested for some performance enhancing substance. Instead of investigating Barry Bonds for perjury charges pertaining to steroids in Major League Baseball, the federal government should be examining why Pokemon have become so much stronger in the recent years ;x.
    I mean, come on… when I first saw Infernape D/P I did at least 5 double-takes before I realized he actually did 90 damage for 2 energy??!! I couldn’t believe it. Forget NG Steelix, this Infernape did 70 damage more for the same energy requirement. In the words of Jerry Seinfeld, “What’s up with that?” In fact, if Mr. Seinfeld was a Pokemon player, I’m sure he’d base his sitcom on the fact that Infernape did 90 damage for only “2” – count that, 2- energies. I don’t know if you realize this folks, but if the flame monkey had come out even 3 years ago, he would have been considered a card from the gods. However, in this world that we call “HP-on modified,” Infernape is merely another Pokemon doing insane amounts of damage as fast as you can say, “What happened to this game?”
    If you’re going to play to win in this game, you’re going to need to play something exactly like this card. Which is why I’m going to go out on a limb and say Infernape MD will be a key card in the next format. Now, before all you Kingdra fanboys start e-mailing me about how “the King” is going to win every Battle Road from Maine to Alaska, I will provide you with the next segment…

    The Importance of Weaknesses

    Well, this section is going to be easy. Weaknesses will not play ANY part in the metagame of the future. You know why? It’s because we’ll all be OHKO’ing each other until one of us says, “That’s my last prize.” As you can see, if anyone tells you to not play a deck because of weakness, you need to tell that person to go climb up a tree and wait until Worlds 2009 is over. But this isn’t because of my own personal opinion, it’s because somehow all of these new fandangled Pokemon have received +20, +30, or even +10 weaknesses. First of all, how am I supposed to metagame against something with a weakness of only +20? Second of all, even if I do, since every Pokemon since the start of DP has attacks that can do 2,0000,00000 damage on the 3rd turn, why even metagame for weakness?
    But seriously folks, this change in weakness has caused the once-normal style of weakness metagaming to be completely lost. This leads to stronger and more dominant archetypes. Just look at Gardevoir/Gallade. How are you supposed to metagame that thing?

    Archetypes in DP-on

    The final section in my article for those who kept on reading (sorry hah ;x). Those decks that are able to call themselves archetypes in the next format are those which either a) everyone plays for fear of losing or b) saw a list on Pokegym and decided to play it because they went to sleep at 5 am the morning of Nationals.
    But honestly, if I see anything CLOSE to what I saw with Gardevoir/Gallade next year I’m seriously going to jump off a cliff.

    **There’s no reason to play an archetype next year**

    Even if you just skimmed this article, I hope the one thing you get out of this is that the next format is going to consist of decks that are of fast and powerful decks that have never been seen before in the Pokemon TCG; but the format is going to be so diverse that it won’t matter. I’m sure some of you will play similar-styled decks, but it’s not going to be such a problem as it has been in the past. I mean, how can you NOT love the new format? I can count maybe, 10 decks off the top of my head that will see lots of play in DP-on and I’m sure there will probably be at least 20 or so different decks that get tested during Battle Roads. But please, don’t play something you don’t want because you’re afraid of losing the tournament; play something you enjoy.
    Have you ever heard the saying, “Do what you enjoy” in reference to a career decision? Well, this is pretty cliché, but that applies to the Pokemon TCG, as well.
    Now that your eyes are bleeding, I decided to list a couple of decks that I predict will see some play once the new format rolls around, so enjoy –
    - Note – I’m not including any Legends Awakened cards since they obviously have not been played with in any tournament scene yet.

    Magmortar/Leafeon – This deck saw some play this year, but I believe more people will start playing it once Gardevoir/Gallade dies out. It has the ability to energy accelerate and do massive damage, something I didn’t talk about much but will be a large part of the metagame.
    Infernape MD – Yes, I know I love this card too much but it’s attack is SO good I just can’t stop thinking about it ;x. 40 damage for each energy I discard? I can do as much as I want? Wow. Combo this with Typhlosion or play it with Togekiss and you got a nice deck.
    Gardevoir – Instead of complaining about it’s enormous player base, why not embrace it by using it next year? I know, fat chance but this deck is still going to be good. Psychic Lock takes out a lot of decks and it’s power is lovely.
    Kabutops/Fossils – Yup. Kabutops WILL be a player next year. His body is so great that I was literally pee’ing my pants trying to topdeck energies so I could attack it with my Monferno. It hinders the ability of every deck to setup. Oh, and Omastar rules.
    Empoleon/whatever – Yes, Empoleon has been the epitome of consistency the past year or so, and he will continue with that title on to next year. Speed spread will be a largely-used strategy next year (so stack up on your Potions....not ;x).
    Torterra – Did any of you actually know this was a good card? Probably, but I didn’t. Not until I noticed DP Torterra had a sweet attack, anyway. Combine this with Sceptile to do 100 damage for 2 energy while simultaneously healing your bench from Empoleon’s wrath.
    Blissey - A 130HP tank that can attack for 1 energy? Yea, he's stll going to be good. Even though Blissey loses out on DRE/Scramble/Boost which hurts it more than other decks, playing it with an energy accelerator (Leafeon lv. x?) will mean it can still battle with the big boys.

    Anyway, there you have it. Good luck to you all next year and I KNOW it’s going to be a great year for being creative with your decks.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2008
  2. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    I'm surprised you didn't mention the loss of DRE/Scramble. I feel that will change the game more than anything else. 3 energy attacks will be very hard to power quickly, and decks will try to focus on 1 or 2 energy attacks unless they run an energy accelerator Pokemon like Leafeon lv.X, Togekiss, etc.
  3. Magic_Umbreon

    Magic_Umbreon Researching Tower Scientist, Retired

    I think weakness will be important but then we see things like Azelf LvX to completly negate that. With more powerful stadiums like stark mountain and snowpoint temple, lake boundary becomes more of a "conditional pluspower" and won't stick. I think weakness will continue to be the main way to tech against the bigger threats.
  4. PokemansForGeeks

    PokemansForGeeks New Member

    Prime: Although, I didn't directly mention the effects of the loss of DRE and Scramble, I did focus on the fact that this DP-on will most likely be the fastest format in terms of play style that we've ever seen before. I probably should've done a section on it but for some reason I didn't feel like re-checking my work 'cause I'm so lazy ;x But you do have a good point.

    M_U: I get what you're saying about the weakness but IMHO I believe people aren't going to be able to win matchups based on weaknesses alone. I can't tell you how many times this season I've seen a Magmortar deck beat an Empoleon deck. It could be based off skill, but more than likely it's because of the new weakness we got starting with D/P. I actually just noticed that Moltres MD had x2 weakness and I honestly said "wth?" As for the stadiums, I have no idea what Stark and Snowpoint are going to do since I haven't had the chance to read all the spoilers for Legends Awakened but if they truly are as potent as you say they are they could definitely have an impact.

    Anyway thanks for the quick response. I love criticism on my work (I usually get lots of it anyway hah)

    I just noticed I left out Blissey as a top deck.
  5. Zumanity

    Zumanity New Member

    Great article, i agree and is very true. It's actually kinda sad how overpowered pokemon is becoming and starting to turn into the "who's got the money wins" with the top cards. ($40+ for leafeon x gtfo) The bad thing is reading all the upcoming cards its going to get worse and worse.

    Weakness really doesn't matter, there will always be a deck you are weak against, but in the new format coming, all the massive damage being thrown around weakness won't matter because cards will be pushing out major damage regardless of weakness.

    I see leafeon and kingdra becoming the new "deck kings" but i think proper techs will play a huge role in matches as there are a lot of important tech options in DP-on.
  6. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    The point of speed kills is that any deck that NEEDS Togekiss to setup quickly is suspect. There are really good pokemon that attack for 2, 1, or even NO energy now. If you need to spend 3+ attachments or build a Togekiss to keep up with them you are at a disadvantage when facing the faster decks.

    Metagame wise I think that Blissey is going to be really bad. Gallade will still be out there, but the big new threats will be Groudon (T2 OHKO of your 130 HP Blissey). Also while technically Blissey only needs 1 energy to attack she needs a lot to really do big damage thanks to Boost going away. Fast & high HP attackers like Kingdra aren't going to give Blissey the time needed to get there. With damage spread or Bucks Kingdra will 2hit Blissey.

    Similarly Kabutops is going to have a big problem. He takes 3 energy and just can't keep up with Kingdra, AMU, or even G&G that will still get play. I like Tops, but he is slow. Even paired with Groudon or something for Accel his 120 HP ensure that he gets two shotted by just about everything. For a stage 2 with 3 energy needs that's too low.

    Other decks that will see play are Kingdra, AMU, Luxray, Groudon, & Frostlass.
  7. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    We thought this format was going to be diverse this time last year, and that was before this broken GG deck was created.

    With the structure of DP cards, I think it'd be really easy to have another broken deck in the future, especially with 4+ sets that have never even been seen yet.
  8. Ryuzaki

    Ryuzaki New Member

    Its not just damage that's massive but HP. As such the +x weaknesses really make little difference but Lake Boundary remains an option that really does make weakness count. Turning 70 into 140 instead of say 90 will win matches.

    I really don't think ANY of the cards (talking main Pokemon here, obviously not trainers and stuff) currently released will have an impact. NONE. Maybe Kabutops, maybe even Garchomp but with Kingdra, Gengar, Rhyperior, Pixies, Regigigas, Shaymin, Steelix, Raichu etc coming out, the older DP-block cards are NOTHING.

    Prepare for the bar to be raised.
  9. Naki Feralkin

    Naki Feralkin New Member

    I think in a format thats gonna end up becoming quick, Blissey will stick around because she can beat for 40-50 on Turn 2 and on. Most of these quickies have 80-90 HP's and Blissey can pretty much two shot them.

    Oh and yes, it beats AMU. I tested it at league. Loss of Cess and Boost does not stop Blissey from killing this overhyped deck.

    And come on 130 HP's on a Stage 1? Whats NOT to love?

    I sort of agree with above poster to an extent, as usually the first set in a format typically tends to outweigh all previous, but I still think Eeveelutions will stick around due to speed consistancy, as will Magmortar and random Empoleon Variants, in addition to combo'd Electivire SW's (With Zone, no less), and Palkia Level X to tech. And look for Electivire Level X to come back upon some of these wicked new stadiums coming out.

    GG obviously loses out a lot of things due to its lack of speed.

    BTW. Great article, sir.
  10. PokemansForGeeks

    PokemansForGeeks New Member

    Thanks for the replies everyone.

    With this article I really wanted to foster a good discussion about the upcoming metagame next year and I see that it's already working it's magic ;x
  11. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    I actually tested against Blissy and didn't have any trouble beating it with AMU. What I found is that even though Blissy attacks for 1 energy ,before you can 1 shot any of my stuff your dead.

    BTW I think a new type of deck is going to be on the rise, T1 decks.
  12. (TYranitarFReak)

    (TYranitarFReak) New Member

    Spread decks will come back too!

    Just look at the spoilers! There are soooooo many of them!
  13. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    I think a T1 deck would be called a speed deck. :lol:
  14. Professor Elm

    Professor Elm Active Member

    OK, not bad, a lot of your points are valid.
    Pokemon are on steroids, and it's kinda scary cause they just keep on getting better it seems.

    Here are some decks that will definitely see play in the beginning.

    Kingdra- The most hyped card in the set, and most likely one of the biggest contenders. 1 for 60-20 is pretty amazing. 130 HP and only 1 retreat to boot makes it VERY easy to setup, swarm and tank. It will be good. Overhyped, yes. But still good.

    Speed Spread- We thought Jolteon ex/Absol ex was fast? How bout Froslass and Spiritomb. You can be doing 40, asleep, and 10 to the bench for 2 energy by T2. And a Spiritomb each turn will provide sufficient extra damage, 40 extra to be exact. Yeah, the deck really pwns because you can also get some lucky flips with sleep and your opponent could essentially lose a turn. Honestly, I believe this deck will quickly rise to the top of the metagame.

    AMU- Once again, more hyped Pokemon. They are good regardless of what people think. The poke-bodys and powers of the 3 Pixie Fairies COMBINED with their stellar Lv. X forms and all being basic will make a deck that essentially will hit hard by T2 and has OHKO potential on any big tank Pokemon. Although I don't think it will be as good as Kingdra, I still see it as being a nice contender in the metagame.

    Plox- GG won't be that great anymore. Gallade just really does not shine as much as Gardy does. Psy Lock is still extremely crippling in this game. This is one of the only Pokemon that will stop Powers come next season. I know people hate to hear it, but it will find a way. It does well against AMU and Kingdra. It doesn't do so great against Speed Spread, but you can't have all good matchups. The loss of DRE/Scramble cripples the deck. BUT Togekiss will suffice as a nice relief tech card.

    Eeveelution Varients- They will be decent, more than likely Tier 2, BUT they have potential. Leafeon/Mag will probably be the most abundant of the deck type.

    ROGUE- It will stand a MUCH better chance next format. SDs will actually be playable, and you won't have to worry about getting Plox'd on Turn 2, or Gallade+Cess locked. The next set will really set the stage for lots of good rogues, and as the season moves on we will find a much more diverse pool of decks than we currently have. I am really excited about this.

    Decks that I see failing:
    Empoleon - Sorry, but it's just outclassed by Kingdra. 60 and 20 to bench for 1 is MUCH better than 30-30 for 2. AND, it no longer has Scramble which arguably made Empoleon such a good tank.

    Banette- 80 for 2 is still good, but Psychic won't be as popular and it really loses horribly to Kingdra. AND it can no longer T1 Ascension.
  15. Naki Feralkin

    Naki Feralkin New Member

    Ironic thing is I also did. Bliss won all three games. :p

    But thats besides the point in this thread, so I won't force it to go off topic.
  16. Zumanity

    Zumanity New Member

    I think psychic can still be a contender because gardevoir is always good and there are some nice psychic coming out. I don't know if it will happen, but i can see Mr. Mime (MT) being teched in a lot/used as it can really throw off a Kingdra deck and stall while you build your guys up. It turns kingdra's free attack, and 1 W attack into 3 energy attacks. It's unfortunate that mime's attack is retarded but either way, with all these low energy attack pokemon coming out, mime can play a big role. Just a thought :p

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