Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

What would you do?

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The OP is clearly too young to understand what to do in such a situation. Most likely a junior or senior. Leave him alone. Discuss the topic, DO NOT attack the kid. Thanks.
 
Another question asked separately.

The person who is driving is going a car 80 MPH in a 60 MPH speed limit zone.
Do you :

1. Do Nothing because there is no harm and it is a open interstate.
2. Tell your friend to slow down to the speed limit.
3. Call 911, Tell your friend to pull off at the nearest exit, so that a police officer can write him a ticket.

I know the answer to this question for most people, and I know the answer to the original question for most people too.

Honestly, the answer here is definitely not 3. In fact, you'd probably be insane to call 911 at the sight of someone speeding, or to betray your friend like that. The excuse 'I may have saved your life' is little to no compensation.

I also find it appalling that so many people here have ragged on this guy so much for calling it 'funny'. Yes, I admit I did not find this scenario particularly funny, but at the end of the day, it's a children's card game. It's certainly not such serious business that you guys have to mistreat this guy so, who clearly didn't even know what he should do in such a scenario.
 
That happened to me. A guy I was playing once put down a bebe's then put it in his dicard, and then proceeded to play a trainer and covered it up and played a looker's. I was like "hey one you gotta keep the supporter out, and two "JUDGE"
 
The OP is clearly too young to understand what to do in such a situation. Most likely a junior or senior. Leave him alone. Discuss the topic, DO NOT attack the kid. Thanks.

He is a SR that won MS States this year. Name is I...... W. (he put his own last name in the T4 for who won STP's). He said if he did it, he would call a judge. If it was HIS game, he would call a judge. He was not going to TELL on anyone else. He knows what to do, he choose to come here to laugh about it 1st....then backtracked. NOT the type of SotG I, or the Schells (who run MS events) would care for!

Keith
 
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Remember, the OP is YOUNG. You are not. We are expected to make decisions like this maybe around 14+, OP is much younger than that.

If he's won as many tournaments this season as his signature suggests, then I'm of the belief that he does know exactly what was done and what his course of action should have been. We had a game loss issued for something similar to this at the states I was judging. Even if he wasn't certain of what he saw, telling a judge would have helped, because the judge could have gone over to the table and asked about that specific state of the game.
 
He is a SR that won MS States this year. Name is I...... W. (he put his own last name in the T4 for who won STP's). He said if he did it, he would call a judge. If it was HIS game, he would call a judge. He was not going to TELL on anyone else. He knows what to do, he choose to come here to laugh about it 1st....then backtracked. NOT the type of SotG I, or the Schells (who run MS events) would care for!

Keith

Having just gone through both the Tournament Rules and Penalty Guidelines listed on Pokémon.com, I can find no reason to believe I am required to report gamesmanship if I witness it but am not part of the game.

Pokémon.com Tournament Rules said:
Honesty: Players of any game should strive to act honestly while playing that game. If a player inadvertently breaks a rule during a game and becomes aware of the error before his or her opponent or a judge, that player should make the opponent and the judge aware of the misplay.

Bolding mine. As you can see, spectators are not expected to strive to act honestly, nor are players expected to act honestly when they are not playing a game.
 
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Having just gone through both the Tournament Rules and Penalty Guidelines listed on Pokémon.com, I can find no reason to believe I am required to report gamesmanship if I witness it but am not part of the game.

Not required to tell anyone. You may be right. I just hope the next opponent he cheats isnt you! If we catch cheaters at the lower levels, they probably dont get to Reg's, Nats etc. If they are allowed to "get away with it" at these events, then they will cheat someone else again. Next time, it might be someone closer and dearer to you.

Why let anyone get away with cheating?? That is what I dont get. Settle the games at the tables, not by shenanigans. If we label a cheat a cheat, then maybe we can rid the game of them.

Keith
 
Not required to tell anyone. You may be right. I just hope the next opponent he cheats isnt you! If we catch cheaters at the lower levels, they probably dont get to Reg's, Nats etc. If they are allowed to "get away with it" at these events, then they will cheat someone else again. Next time, it might be someone closer and dearer to you.

Why let anyone get away with cheating?? That is what I dont get. Settle the games at the tables, not by shenanigans. If we label a cheat a cheat, then maybe we can rid the game of them.

Keith

You're right; it may be in his best interest to report the cheater. However, don't accuse the poor kid of "know[ing] what to do" if whether he reported the cheater or not was solely at his discretion!
 
Having just gone through both the Tournament Rules and Penalty Guidelines listed on Pokémon.com, I can find no reason to believe I am required to report gamesmanship if I witness it but am not part of the game.

You may be right in this instance, but again it comes down to an interpretation of the Spirit of the Game. While it says nothing about the situation in the Honesty section, but what the player did broke the spirit of Fairness in the game:

Pokemon.com said:
Fairness: Games cease to be fun when players break the rules to achieve victory. A player should prefer to lose a game than to win by cheating.

Maybe the player who used Copycat didn't mean to break the rules, but by not coming clean it became a more difficult issue for everyone involved. And by not pointing it out to a judge, any player who saw it was involved. The Spirit of the Game is applied to everyone at an event:

Pokemon.com said:
Regardless of the size of the prizes on the line, adherence to the Spirit of the Game helps to ensure that all participants, including players, spectators, and event staff at a Pokémon TCG event, have an enjoyable experience. This spirit should guide the conduct of players as well as the tournament judges as they interpret and enforce the rules.

Please understand, I'm not attacking the OP. Yes, I am discouraged that he originally thought the situation was "funny" but he has since apologized for it and hopefully has learned something from the experience.

If I made a mistake in a similar situation, I'd want a spectator to tell a judge (if I didn't tell him or her myself) because adhering to the Spirit of the Game help keeps it fun.

Pokemon.com said:
Fun: The Pokémon TCG is a game, and games are meant to be fun for all parties involved. When a game ceases to be fun, players find other things to do.

All quotes from this page.
 
Box, you're right, the kid, after playing and winning many tournaments, may not know what to do when he sees a cheater. Perhaps players would benefit from familiarizing themselves with the tenets we all play by, in the Spirit Of The Game: Fun, Fairness, Honesty, Respect, Sportsmanship, and Learning.

That said, "nor are players expected to act honestly when they are not playing a game." Did you really say that Box? Do you really advocate a complete repudiation of the tenets of our game?

Is it Fun if you were cheated to find this kid laughing at you afterward online? Has this multiple tournament champion fostered Fairness in the games he observed? Is it Honest to bring up a problem, casting it as humorous, when you knowingly allowed someone to be cheated? Does letting fellow players suffer cheating constitute Respect for the game, your fellow competitors, yourself? Does giving cover to cheaters, through silence, best exemplify Sportsmanship?

Most importantly, can something be learned from all of this? I would hope that this kid looks at his victories, his medals, his championships, his awards, his trips, his invitations and feels that they are a gift, but the gift has a price. The price is being a decent human being, modeling SOTG for younger players who follow in your path, and doing the right thing when it is called for at tournaments to ensure the win and ratings points awarded in a game in MS is as legitimate as the win and ratings points earned elsewhere. You are the keeper of integrity, your own, and the game's. What you do with it is up to you, but it is how a man shall be judged by other men of honor.

Kill the kid for messing up? No. But seriously, his folks, his friends, his fellow players, his judges and his TOs should nudge him onto a better path.

And to tone down the sanctimony. My kid messes up every day. I mess up every day. Hopefully our mess ups are small, but small or large, it is more important that we identify our failings and work to correct them.

Good luck and cheers.
 
You nshould have called a Judge. Cheating is nothing to be kidding about cheating. Especailly if it helps them win. When I started playing Pokemon I was cheated on twice. One guy said he shuffeled his deck already and another that you only had to take off the top card when guy with an evoultion faints. I realize know that I am older.
 
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Box, you're right, the kid, after playing and winning many tournaments, may not know what to do when he sees a cheater. Perhaps players would benefit from familiarizing themselves with the tenets we all play by, in the Spirit Of The Game: Fun, Fairness, Honesty, Respect, Sportsmanship, and Learning.

That said, "nor are players expected to act honestly when they are not playing a game." Did you really say that Box? Do you really advocate a complete repudiation of the tenets of our game?

Is it Fun if you were cheated to find this kid laughing at you afterward online? Has this multiple tournament champion fostered Fairness in the games he observed? Is it Honest to bring up a problem, casting it as humorous, when you knowingly allowed someone to be cheated? Does letting fellow players suffer cheating constitute Respect for the game, your fellow competitors, yourself? Does giving cover to cheaters, through silence, best exemplify Sportsmanship?

Most importantly, can something be learned from all of this? I would hope that this kid looks at his victories, his medals, his championships, his awards, his trips, his invitations and feels that they are a gift, but the gift has a price. The price is being a decent human being, modeling SOTG for younger players who follow in your path, and doing the right thing when it is called for at tournaments to ensure the win and ratings points awarded in a game in MS is as legitimate as the win and ratings points earned elsewhere. You are the keeper of integrity, your own, and the game's. What you do with it is up to you, but it is how a man shall be judged by other men of honor.

Kill the kid for messing up? No. But seriously, his folks, his friends, his fellow players, his judges and his TOs should nudge him onto a better path.

And to tone down the sanctimony. My kid messes up every day. I mess up every day. Hopefully our mess ups are small, but small or large, it is more important that we identify our failings and work to correct them.

Good luck and cheers.
Ok I'm really sorry.... Next time I'll notify a judge.. I won't keep it to my self
 
I don't think anyone should trash someone else for keeping mum about certain things. I'm of the belief that eventually everything will catch up with those who misbehave -- if not in this life, then here after.

@pokemaster50000: We can tell you what we'd do and hope others would follow suit. If you feel comfortable, speak up next time, but if you don't, just be careful about saying "that was funny," giving the appearance that it was tolerable to you.
 
I want to see if I can get this site in check. He has only been playing a little over a year and is 12 years old. I called and talked to him to get to the root of this. The short story is he did not see it himself, and a friend of his told him about it. He just wanted to know what to do and is trying to fit in. He is new to the whole posting thing and it got out of hand. I personally know this young man and he is very polite and respectful. He is welcome at any of our events. I told him in the future if he ever witnesses a person cheating he is to call a judge over, and he assured me that he would. So can we all please agree that if you see someone cheating call a judge over and if a young person posts a thread let’s not crucify him/her without all the evidence.
Thanks,
Kathy Schell
Proud wife of MS PTO Mike Schell and proud mother of Chris, Alan and Anna
 
Also, lets get a dictionary out and look up funny. I didnt take the op's post to mean he was laughing at the situation. I interpreted 'funny' to mean strange or unusual, as im sure most of you did but choose to ignore

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk
 
I want to see if I can get this site in check. He has only been playing a little over a year and is 12 years old. I called and talked to him to get to the root of this. The short story is he did not see it himself, and a friend of his told him about it. He just wanted to know what to do and is trying to fit in. He is new to the whole posting thing and it got out of hand. I personally know this young man and he is very polite and respectful. He is welcome at any of our events. I told him in the future if he ever witnesses a person cheating he is to call a judge over, and he assured me that he would. So can we all please agree that if you see someone cheating call a judge over and if a young person posts a thread let’s not crucify him/her without all the evidence.
Thanks,
Kathy Schell
Proud wife of MS PTO Mike Schell and proud mother of Chris, Alan and Anna



According to his post, he was the one that saw it. If he didn't want people going after him, maybe he should have mentioned that he was not the one who saw the rule break in question.
 
Thank you Mrs. Kathy.
For all else: HI. I am the mother of the child that posted the original message. First, let me say that HE NEVER SAW IT HAPPEN. He was told a few days later by a kid that it happened. I have since talked to him and told him that if he EVER does see someone cheat, he should ALWAYS tell a judge. He completely understands that now. That is not even what happened though....because HE NEVER SAW ANYONE CHEAT. I know that he did post that he saw it happen....but that was his way of getting others opinions of it. I KNOW and have told him that he should not have said he saw it when he didn't. BUT like Mrs Kathy said. HE IS ONLY 12 and this is the first time he has ever posted on forums like this. Just to let you know what kind of kid he is.....this is the WORSE thing that he has EVER DONE in his 12 years of life. He is a straight A gifted student that just recently took the ACT and scored higher on it than most college kids do. The thing to remember is that socially he is still only 12!!!!He is and ALWAYS has been VERY respectful and has always been a blessing in my life. I get complements on him every single day on how great of a kid he is and am very proud of him. So now, I hope all of you that bashed him feel good about yourselves because as being in the field of law like I am, I know that you should know all the evidence before jumping to conclusions. In closing, NO he did not see anyone cheat, and YES he should not have posted that he did see it, when he didn't. But like I said, that is probably the worse thing he has ever done and the only "lie" that he has ever told....and he is truly sorry for it. So please forgive him for saying he saw someone cheat when he really didn't. Let's all enjoy the game pokemon instead of trying to give children complexes. Thank you.
By the way, the Schells run an EXCELLENT pokemon program in our state and we appreciate all of the time and dedication that they put into it. They truly are great people that put a lot of smiles on a lot of kids' faces!
 
The error does severe damage to the gamestate. But it is not an automatic game loss because there was a card effect in play (Cyrus) the shuffle of the hand is a big error but it may be recoverable. Unless I have it wrong that particular example in the penalty guidelines is reserved for when a player shuffles their hand away for no reason.

The player misplayed Cyrus in spectacular fashion but it is still a misplay of Cyrus and not a shuffle of the hand without card effect.
Probably will be a game loss because the gamestate cannot be recovered. Though ending with the same penalty the justification is different.

The "without a game effect" language is referring specifically to a game effect that tells you to shuffle your hand it, not just to any game effect that might be in play at the moment.

Game Loss would be right for this.
 
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