When to apply : Do as best as you can?

Discussion in 'Ask the Rules Team' started by Rainbowgym, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    I found recently a lot of questions about: Island Hermit/Bebe's/Oaks Visit and the rulings given on them are all kind of different.

    It's not clear to me why in case of Island Hermit you have to do as best as you can (like not flipping prizes) but you are still allowed to take 2 from the deck. (and sorry I did understand up to means at least 1 these days so Hermit should fail if you cannot turn a prize)
    While in the case of Oak's Visit you are not allowed to "do as best as you can".
    I fail to see were on the card it says: "if you cannot draw a card, you cannot put one on the bottom.

    Some goes for Bebe's, why can't you play it with zero cards in the deck?
    Before you can search you have to put a card in your deck, at that point a zero card deck becomes a 1 card deck and you can search (however you can choose to let it fail).

    As long as a card has a (partly) effect, you should be allowed to use it.

    I hope we can get a solid ruling/decription on when "do as best as you can" is applied and which cards cannot be played because you don't meet the requirements.

    The rulings I have seen lately on Bebe's/Oak's visit are not the way I would rule them.
    I was even amazed how they were ruled, most of all because of the Island Hermit ruling.
    I do play/judge this game for a long time, and never before felt the way I feel now: "how can my ruling be so different" "what did I miss?"

    So might it be needed to make a list of cards and clarify them (maybe discuss them) because of this?
    ------------

    After some research I am even more confused.
    draw up to, sometimes includes 0 but sometimes it doesn't.
    Can you decide to draw zero cards after playing RPS?

    ---------------

    Another one.
    There is a ruling you can't play a card when it has no effect. Seems to me this is also valid for Poke-Power/Body.(ruling on Magneton PK was made for use of the Power)
    So you can't use Delcatty Energy Draw if there are no cards in the deck.
    But you can discard cards with Flygon EX (PK) even if the damage of an effect is prevented to be changed.
    I don't see why Delcatty doesn't work, while Flygon does.
    For Delcatty it would be "because you cannot draw a card you are not allowed to use it.
    Wouldn't it be the same for Flygon ex, if you cannot reduce the damage you cannot discard.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2008
  2. bulbasnore

    bulbasnore Administrator Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod

    Lia,

    I'm sorry this has sat here so long! That said, it is quite the treatise to answer, and I'm only going to pick specific bits and leave you to discussion in Single Card forum for further results.

    It seems to me we have no ruling on Bebe's Search. Looks like that one was missed. So, I've put it back in the queue (I hope, we don't have a well-defined process for the agenda) and it's pending.

    My way of elaborating on this is: "Do as much as you can, unless completion is required or you are stopped before you get to that part of the effect."

    As a note, "up to" has changed meaning from "zero up to limit" to "one up to limit".

    Island Hermit - it seems we missed bringing that ruling into the LvX from the EX. If there are other modified cards with rulings in EX, but not LvX, post them here. I put Island Hermit in the database and it will be published in LvX next time the guys publish a ruling set. But, I digress.

    The second clause, "Draw 2 Cards," was determined not to be dependent on the success of the first clause. The first clause is not optional, if you can do it. If you can't, the second clause is independent, proceed.

    Professor Oak's Visit - The clue here is the word, "then". This links the completion of the first clause (Draw 3 cards) as a requirement for the second clause (place a card...). So, with this card the completion of #1 is required to start #2. Now, it would be interesting to see a ruling for a question about "What if I have two cards left in my deck, or one?", because the ruling given is for a 0 card deck. I think this would end up applying the 'as much as you can' and be allowed (much like Energy Recycle System).

    Psychic Protector - This BODY is triggered or starts with the damage, but the damage reduction effect is nullified by Swift/Fastwave as an effect of the attack. It has been explained that in this case the discard is a separate and unrelated effect (though it is the basis of the damage reduction calculation in the second effect).

    Energy Draw - "up to" is understood to mean "at least 1, up to the limit". Since it is known in advance of using the power that you will fail the linked ("Then,") clause, then this meta-ruling applies:
    Energy Draw can't start unless it can draw one or more cards. That will not likely change regardless of any further explanation (or less likely, change) on Psychic Protector.

    Remember, the emphasis now is even greater on 'playing the card as the creators intended' than it was in the early days. Delcatty is played this way in Japan, as we understand it.

    I apologize, if anything this long-winded explanation is not clear, but I proceeded from the assumption that a reasonable answer can be further clarified and that giving an answer is better than just keeping your question in the refrigerator until it is covered with mold.

    Now, friends, just because Aunt Lia and Uncle Kim had this discussion, don't get the idea that I encourage you to turn your questions into term papers and post them here. A single question with a clear thread subject is the best way to get a timely and accurate answer.
     

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