Why do people hate Gardy/Gallade

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by ~`Flygon`~, Mar 18, 2008.

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  1. ~`Flygon`~

    ~`Flygon`~ New Member

    I mean,Ive seen so many counter decks to Gardylade and Ive seen so many hate threads towards the deck. I just wanna know,why??Why is this deck deck so unliked by some??
     
  2. BloodDraek

    BloodDraek New Member

    It is so widely played that the saying "if you can't beat them, join them" is really starting to happen with the metagame. Atleast last year there were decks like Destiny, R-gon, SallyGross, Evelutions, Flariados etc.

    But in today's metagame there are basically only 2 safe decks

    G&G - Most common
    Magmortar - less common

    In NY states Senior division 6 out of the top 8 decks were G&G. This is worse ihe masters division
     
  3. Jason

    Jason New Member

    One simple word.

    Overused. That's why.
     
  4. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    What I find interesting is that folks rag on G&G a lot more than Magmortar. The perception that mags is "harder" to play and that "any noob can play G&G" seems to lead to a lot of one sided bashing. I honestly find Mags easier to play but whatever.
     
  5. eriknance

    eriknance New Member

    I've had people donk a T2 Gardevoir Lv.X against me and start using Bring Down on my 100 HP Chansees before (that game lasted two minutes); I've also had people donk a T2 Gallade and start running through every single thing I have (that game lasted longer, but his start was ridiculously good). With the nature of the deck -- that is, the fact that people play 5-7 Pokemon that evolve from Ralts -- a T2 Psychic Lock or Psychic Cut isn't all that uncommon. You can look through the tournament threads to find people who lost to a "T2 Psychic Lock" or "T2 Psychic Cut." This is an annoying aspect to the deck -- the T2 factor.

    Before Claydol was even legal, most decks that went against GG faced another problem -- Absol. Though many people claim the Furret with GG is the better list, that still didn't mean that opponents couldn't play Absol. The only time I played GG at a tournament I saw Absol/GG everywhere. I think the top 4 that day were all GG decks, and most games were decided not by the skill of the player nor by the build of the deck, but rather the Absol start. If you started with Absol against your opponent who started with Ralts, you were headed towards Winsville. The games I played that day weren't even fun. I remember winning the tournament because I hit good trainers with Baleful Wind... the outcome was random. @_@

    The reason I can't stand both Magmortar and GG is simple: the cards that make up those decks are overpowered. I won't say "broken," because they can be beaten, but that is a fact that is proven far too seldom to not raise concern. One of the things I have mentioned before is the "occasional OHKO" that seems to accompany a winning deck these days -- that is, any deck that can pull off a OHKO every now and then can compete with the current archetypes (at least in the current format). When that OHKO is achieved by variable damage output, you have a winning combination. Look at Gallade -- it's a card that can do 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160, or 180 damage. A good player knows when to go all out and when to hold off on the damage Gallade does, but even a bad player can accomplish the OHKO. Look at Magmortar -- it can do 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, etc. damage. It's a card that can also pull off the OHKO by an attack that does variable damage. Please note that this whole "occasional OHKO/variable damage" thing only applies to our current format. Last season and the season before it saw multiple strategies to take down an opponent's deck.

    With all of that said, look at other cards in our format. There are only a couple of cards that even come close to offering the occasional OHKO that both GG/Mortar decks can pull off fairly easily. MT Feraligatr is one of them, and as such has been talked about a bit. Banette can OHKO stuff in Gardy/Gallade decks. I guess there's Electivire. But all in all, if you're not hitting the weakness of one of the two viable decks in our format (GG/Mortar), your consistant 2HKO's will never overpower the OHKO's pulled off by GG/Mortar. This is why I can't stand GG as well as Magmortar variants -- those two decks essentially have something that almost nothing else in the format has.
     
  6. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    If you want something to blame for the mess we have now, blame POP for rotating DS. Now most people seem to think that having LM would solve all our problems, but really what the format needs is the Holon Engine. With the Holon Engine, there would be a LOT more decks that you could play. Hurricane would suddenly be able to beat G&G with Lass, and easily be a tire 1 deck. Banette would be faster and more consitant, and Flygon would be playable.

    Not having the Holon Engine is what is really hurting this format, not G&G or Magmortar.

    Oh, and I agree with vanderbilt_grad that Mag is overall MUCH easier to play than G&G.
     
  7. eriknance

    eriknance New Member

    The Holon Engine wouldn't be "broken" right now with Team Galactic's Wager in the format. I've heard the thought expressed before that "some people are happy to have the Holon Engine out of the format." What those people fail to understand is the fact that the Holon Engine wasn't meant to be played without simple hand disruption in the format. I played against a delta deck or two this season and I actually saw my opponent get the wildest start on me, dropping two Electabuzz's (delta) and using "Power of Evolution" to draw two cards, then using a Holon Mentor to bench 3 Trapinch d, then using the active Holon's Castform to draw 5 more cards. Last season I would have lost the game based on that play alone. This season I played a Wager and went on to win the game easily because I knocked out the H. Castform... giving him absolutely nothing.

    But yeah, I agree that "rogue" decks need everything they can get nowadays.

    Oh, and I've played both GG and Mortar this season, and I felt that Mortar was harder to play. No big deal though, just opinion. I also agree with what you came up with, DarthPika, on that thread you had... about how GG is such a good deck that even a n00b looks good with it.
     
  8. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    It depends on the build. A teched G&G can be very tricky to use, and by "use" I do not mean bashing your opponent into the ground with Gallade.

    I found the main reason even a n00b can look good with G&G, is not Gardevoir, but Gallade. Any idiot with a G&G can flip a few prizes for a ohko. Not to hard to do, but if you really want to use the deck to its fullest potential, it takes quite a lot of skill.

    Really what it comes down to, is NOT that G&G and Mag are to good, but that we don't have enough sets to build decks from. Hopefully that problem will be fixed when we get MD.
     
  9. AnimeDDR110

    AnimeDDR110 New Member

    Like i said in my post to regionals, and why gardy/gallade and magmortar should be banned, PUI refuses to ban cards solely because its overused.

    G&G is most used in the format, bu there are others that are close to its popularity, even though it doesn't seem like it.
     
  10. Mew*

    Mew* Active Member

    Many people don't like it because they loose to it. They make couners so that they don't loose to it as much. Now what is confusing me is that you are asking why people try to counter Gallade, yet look at your signature... it advocates Banette, a counter to GG. :lol::thumb:
     
  11. Chu51595

    Chu51595 New Member

    Mag ***** Darkrai and Banette, so nobody really uses them.
     
  12. ~`Flygon`~

    ~`Flygon`~ New Member

    I love Banette,even b4 it came out. I was a fan of Banette ex,which was an insane card. Gardylade is fine by me.:biggrin:
     
  13. Yoshi-

    Yoshi- New Member

    Word.
    I mainly use Gardevoir because it has so many options, it has enough speed to use tons of techs without loosing consistancy, and you can use it in so many decks. It makes decks possible that work like last years decks. (MSN and that kind of builds)
    Gallade is more a tech to me, its nice to have but not that important. But every noob just seems to see the gallade and thinks that by stopping gallade you beat the entire deck, but this just works if you opponent is unable to play without gallade (a noob).

    I really start hating gallade for just existing, without it, probably no one would even use gardevoir.
    Gardevoir would probably be an underdog, a secret deck or sth like that, because without gallade you've got a terrible low damage output but still would have a great flexibility, the possibility to use techs / other lines and to outplay your opponent by skillfully using psychic lock. (all that takes some skill to use )
    But because of the damned gallade now i'm a noob, a netdecker, a metagame player and have to face all those damned banette decks.
    And who complains about Gallade beeing unfair because of the T2 Donk and then uses Banette ?

    Gardevoir IMO is one of the most important cards to be legal in the actual format, because it gives more possibilitys to deckbuilding that "4 pachirisu + 22 claydol + some overpowered line that needs no further strategie = a deck"
    Maybe its just me but i love complicated decks that use a lot of techs, different strategies etc, and gardevoir is the only card that makes these decks possible, i use gallade mainly to shield myself against anythink that goes to aggro, because if my opponent does that, gallade will slaughter him.

    And don't fool yourself, without g/g the format would be the same mess, DP on cards are so simple to use and so boring because they all work by simply beeing broken. Last Year you needed 2 Metagross 1 Nidoqueen and 1 Steelix Ex (that was an ex, had 2 terrible weaknesses and whos other attack pretty much sucked) to snipe for 100, now you need 1 magmortar and a DRE.
    Last Year you needed a whole field of Metagross d and Dragonite d to reach a big dmg output/turn, now you need a gallade / a magmortar / a garchomp (110 DMG 4 3 NRGS wtf).

    DP Sets just SUCK :/
     
  14. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    Just to point out the flipside ... yueah it took that must stuff last format to do big things ... but we had no hand disruption and the means to setup like that (Castiform, Transceiver, etc.). This format individual cards might be more powerful but it's also a lot harder to set up. Just think about how T2 stuff ruled early and how each set has slowly added to the ability to set up.
     
  15. pokeking11

    pokeking11 New Member

    because its a little to good and there is not a whole ton of playable antis trust me ive found like one and thats t2b
     
  16. Master Yoda

    Master Yoda New Member

    I think, people hate G&G because they don´t know what to do against. so they play G&G.

    I can say... i love the deck. and i think it´s not so easy to play. of course, gallade price flipping is no big deal, but to be a good G&G play need more. skill is important. GARDEVOIR is improtant. and using your techs to the right time is important.

    thats only my opinion and what i can say after wining a state 9-0 with G&G.


    shalom.
     
  17. (TYranitarFReak)

    (TYranitarFReak) New Member

    WHy?

    Because there's NO GOOD counter to it AND to magmortar at the same time! (obviously coz if there is, it would've been discovered)

    You wanna use nasty powers against it? sorry, psychic lock.

    Insanely high HP pokemon like wailord? Nope, sonic blade.

    fishing engine and claydol? Too inconsistence and psychic lock makes your deck to have MEGA slow.
     
  18. Formula Nine

    Formula Nine New Member

    I myself don't like it because it doesn't let anyone else experiment with a unique deck or idea AND have a high chance of winning at the same time.
     
  19. smacktack15

    smacktack15 New Member

    G&G isn't as easy to play as many "haters" like to say it is. Sure, a good G&G player will get the random T2 Gallade/T2Gardevoir Lv.X but, you need to think deeper into the game to do well.
     
  20. Pokeric

    Pokeric New Member

    I don't really hate G&G as much as Magmortar. Being a Banette player, G&G comes easy, but the thing is it can only counter one of the 2 big decks in the format. That's how it is in most cases. You can counter 1 of the 2 decks, but leave yourself wide open to the other one. A lot of people end up trying some wacky combos to counter both, but end up failing to both because of no cosistancy. I'm not saying that's how it is all the time, but most of the time. You can either counter G&G or Magmortar, very rarely both....but it's not impossible.
     

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