Why, exactly, are we playing single-game?

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by Scipio, Dec 11, 2007.

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  1. Scipio

    Scipio New Member

    I'll admit right of the bat that I am not a "veteran", or anything akin to that. I only started playing in November 2006. But I still feel I need to speak up about this, because it annoys me to death.

    Over the 2006-2007 season, we have been playing Best-Of-Three in the Cities, States and Battle Roads here. This system wasn't played in America, I learned, and I wondered how you all held out there.

    Now, however, we are FORCED to play Single Game here as well. And I can't see why this is forced upon us when it greatly reduces the level of skill and fun. I mean, single-game play allows for much greater "hax" luck, such as the famed Riolu donks, or T2 Blissey + Boost + double Pluspower on a lone starter. I've even seen stupid things like T2 Delcatty Ex Tail Whap, T2 Seadra vs Skitty and stupid stuff like that. Losing in such fashion is never fun, and you can argue you lost due to luck and still dont know if you can beat that opponent or not.

    While in best-of-three, you had at least two games to prove you are up to the fight. Usually, the one who wins first would win the match, but I've seen enough turnabouts to prove my point. If in the finals I lose the first game due to a Riolu Donk, I don't mind as badly because I know I still got a chance to turn it all over.

    Single Game Play only promoted "Donking Luck" decks. Decks that do not rely on skill but just donk the opponent and be done with it (MARIO). If you play best-of-three, the chances of those decks diminish and more skill is required.

    So why is single-game play forced upon us? Anybody got a good argument for it?
  2. BJJ763

    BJJ763 Trading Mod Supervisor Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod

    One factor is time. 5 rounds of swiss is 2.5 hours single game. Best 2/3 is 5 hours. Then 2 more hours of T4.

    And with more attendance......
  3. P_A

    P_A Active Member

    Let's face it speed decks do well .... because they are speedier! If your deck doesn't do so well unless it's built for the long haul play, then maybe you should change your strategy. You may dislike single game matches, but as popularity grows, chances are you'll see much more of this. Grow with the game instead of attempting to live in the past. You never know, maybe you'll see more wins that way.
  4. Scipio

    Scipio New Member

    Actually, when we played Best of 3, 5 rounds swiss took 3 3/4 hours. And that isn't very long.

    What is also annoying is being done in like one minute. You start, you get donked, and boom, its game over. And after a donk, most people dont feel much for a friendly game against that deck. Thats also annoying about it.

    And P_A, I'm not saying I'm doing bad. I'm not THE top but I get my share of top cuts and wins, as seen in my season record.

    But HOW is this Single-Game play popular? If time is the only factor....which really doesn't matter, if you start 12 o'clock and play 3 3/4 hours (and 2 hours of Finals), you're still done relatively early. Usually we even start at 11.
  5. Team Cook

    Team Cook New Member

    45 minutes for match play? That's no fun.
  6. Scipio

    Scipio New Member

    More fun as:

    I play Riolu, flip heads, GG, see you later.

    And if you played at enough speed, you'd rarely get time issues. In fact, I only won/lost like 3 games on time in that match play system.
  7. ixidor89

    ixidor89 New Member

    I don't know, Yugioh does that. But then again, games are much faster...
  8. Quatra

    Quatra New Member

    Not everyone uses Speed decks. Granted it's the Popular choice, but doesn't it get boring seeing the same speed decks? Not everyone is fast, and this gives them the chance to finish on time or close to it. Not to mention they try to set the game system so that it's easy for everyone to play. New players who have never played before, will have a hard time playing single, let alone double. Making the game a little more challenging for vet players, will turn off New players as it will be to hard for them to learn and play. It's like Playing Smash Bros Tourneys. Everyone plays hard difficulty, well New players won't be able to keep up and learn at the sametime. So starting off on easy or Normal Difficulty gives them a fighting chance to learn it and play. Bad Example, but i tried.
  9. drmario

    drmario New Member

    They do it because best of 3 for swiss would take twice as long. (assuming they do 1 hr. rounds like SE)
  10. LionheartEX

    LionheartEX Active Member

    We do 45 minute best 2/3 rounds here. Our matches rarely go to time unless it's new people playing in a premier event.
  11. meganium45

    meganium45 Active Member

    Don't ever look to me to do 2/3 in Swiss. The time constraints are just too much.

    2 good players CANNOT finish 3 games in 45 minutes if they both have intense decks. It just won't happen. Sure, you will have speed games, but mostly, games where both players get set last for 20+ minutes.

    You really don't like getting T1d...there are plenty of decks that will NEVER get T1d...

    Most every deck has the possibility of getting T2d, it is the nature of the beast right now.
  12. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    You don't need to finish 3 games in 45 minutes.
    Best of 3 in 45 minutes was done to recover from those pesky second turn kills.
    Most times only 1 game is played and the winner of that game should have won in single match so no need to complain about stalling.

    A tournament with 5 rounds or less should have the option to use best out of 3 in 45 minutes.
    As Scipio said we did it for the whole last season and it was much better as gameplay.
    Most people overhere hate gameplay and I can't blaim them, it's no fun to be finished in 2 minutes because of a bad hand/T2 kill.
  13. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Vince I agree with Lia,

    2/3 45 minute swiss reduces the influence that luck has on match outcome. The only negative is that players spend more time playing (is that a negative???) which means more matches run to time.

    I have observed that with 30 minute single game swiss small to medium sized events can often recover lost time. This never happens with 2/3 45 minute. Once you are behind on venue time you stay behind.
  14. drmario

    drmario New Member

    Yes but for an average 5 round tournament it would add over an hour. How many people are usually in a division in the UK for a CC level event? And for most top level players in the US a single game can easily last 20-30 minutes.
  15. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    The point is that one good, long game is fine. The second game would be unfinished and not count.
    The only purpose of the best 2/3 is to eliminate losses due to T2 donks. Game one ends in 3 minute? Then plenty of time for a real game 2.
  16. drmario

    drmario New Member

    Then people can use decks that are practically impossible to donk. There are a lot of decks that you can make that have enough basic to always have at least 2 to start out with.
  17. Scizor

    Scizor New Member

    2/3 likely won't work with 45 mins. Sure, you may conceed or lose game 1 early, fine. Game 2 is probably going to take somewhere close to the original time (25-30 mins), so you're left with what, 5, 10 minutes for game 3? That still favors fast decks, so it's like we're going in a circle here. Not saying that I disagree with it, I mean if we even get 1 out of our 6-7 swiss matches that makes 2/3 worth it in some way, then it's done its job and I'm in favor of it. Too bad it couldn't happen for the event that needs it most (U.S. Nationals).
  18. meganium45

    meganium45 Active Member

    OK, how about this perspective...

    Turn 2 donks are a part of the game, and always have been.

    They are a part of the luck factor of Pokemon.

    Taking away the Turn 2 is like taking away Absol, or Admin, focus band, or some other facet of the game.

    If they really wanted to kill turn 2 kills, all basic pokemon would have 10 damage attacks, and noone could evolve until turn 3.

    I am sorry, but I do not like defining fast wins as "bad" and slow wins as "good" as many of you are trying to do.

    A win is a win.

  19. Lord Broly

    Lord Broly New Member

    The Proper way in my opinion is to have Single Game Matches
    in Swiss, and then Best 2 out of 3 in Top Cut, which is what most
    of us do now.

    Having 2 out of 3 in Swiss is to Time Consuming and Frankly, i'd
    probably get sick of it.
  20. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    The rating system treats a luck based win as though it were a skill based win. It not surprising that high rated players sit out when the impact of luck is not the same for both players.

    I agree Fast wins aren't bad. But they do yield less information about the relative strengths of the players than the longer games.
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