Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

wilhung53's US Nationals Report

I do feel Chess clocks aren't the best idea, but they aren't the worst idea IMHO. I kind of like the idea of changing the value of a time win to 2 points instead of 4, but many games go down to time anyways even with neither is stalling, so I still don't know exactly if that is a good idea.
 
To be honest I agree with both sides since I think they are both right, Legal stalling is not how the game is supposed to be played but it is allowed in the floor rules but this is how I decide if I should stall someone out, I ask myself would they do it to me if the situation was reversed and since 95% of the people would I have no problem stalling out 95% of the people.
 
Poor wording I mean like takeing the full amount of time allowed to shuffle the deck or search for a card, etc
 
Taking the full time? Are you referring to that 1 minute "suggestion".

Start pulling that, and watch a judge swoop over and quietly start watching your game...

Jeez...add another name to my list for Worlds....

M45
 
The other downside to them (clocks) is that they're pretty expensive I thought. :frown: Like I said, I like the idea of them, but they do add a certain amount of hassle. Can anyone else think of another way to break up time between players that is also easy to keep track of, cause shoot, it doesn't have to be chess clocks.
 
meganium45 said:
Taking the full time? Are you referring to that 1 minute "suggestion".

Start pulling that, and watch a judge swoop over and quietly start watching your game...

Jeez...add another name to my list for Worlds....

M45

My comments were wrong and out of line, I'm actually a person that gets done way before time has been called since most of my deck are based around speed and quick set ups, its just quite annoying to be stalled out for a win by your opponent and know that is perfectly leagel this has happened to me on more then on occuasion I think Pokemon should addapt a similer policy to yu-gi-oh were you each get like three more turns after time has be called. meganium45 once again you are right I was a little out of line what I said normally does not reflect the kinda person I am if you know me, feel free to watch my games at worlds but I don't think I am somebody you should be worried about.
 
meganium45 said:
Taking the full time? Are you referring to that 1 minute "suggestion".

Start pulling that, and watch a judge swoop over and quietly start watching your game...

Jeez...add another name to my list for Worlds....

M45



Vince, the dreaded "list" lol aleady serving it's purpose from the looks of things :)

Hope you share it w/ all the judges.
 
NoPoke said:
where in the floor rules does it allow 'legal stalling'?

Its something that I've missed

Legal stalling is basically making all moves possible in order to eat up time on the clock, even if they don't really inpact the game. I will show you how you cna be perfectly within the rules and eat up 2 minutes on a running clock.

Like my exaple earlier, say I am playing blaziken against rocklock, it is my turn and there are two minutes left on the clock. My entire bench is heavily damaged and I have 2 prizes left. Time is about to run out and if my opponent gets to take their turn I will lose because all they have to do is ATM rock me for mutliple prizes. There isn't really any way I can win the game, but that doesnt mean I can't make plays like on a normal turn. Think for a second, play a gym, then copycat your 11 card hand, I have to shuffle, takes a few seconds even moving quickly, draw my 11 cards, take a few seconds to quickly look over those cards. What can I do next? Well I have 2 firestarters to put somwhere, that will take a couple of seconds to decide. Oh wait I have a swoop too I can play on my benched dunspace, I discard him take a few more seconds to look through my deck and choose a basic to switch him with. Shuffling...few more second...present it to you to cut...few more seconds. Then I can evolve him, and don't forget I have my energy for the turn and oops, the clock just ran out, and I didn't even get to finish my turn. What I did was perfectly within the rules, I played that last turn exactly as I would have any other turn, and I took a resonable amount of time (keyword reasonable) for each card I played. I didn't change my speed, because even though time is runnig down I will still think out the concequences of my moves. I made every move possible from my hand and time ran out, therefor my turn ends (I could attack with something) and the game is over, I win on prizes. That is legal stalling, and as long as the rules allow it I see no problem using the rules their full extent. A judge can't do anything about this because they can't call the winner of the game, it isnt in their power, even though in this case it was clear who the winner would be. Not the courteous or sportsmanlike thing to do (SOTG and all that junk) because a good player knows when he's licked, a good player also knows the rules and how to use the rules to their advantage, simple as that.

Bottom line, or if you didnt care to read the same thing again, clocks are expensive. Here's a solution, extend the game with out a time limit so "legal" stalling like I did before is pointless. I know there is no chance I can beat you playwise so I just let you take your turn and end the game, and don't even bother with all that other stuff. Magic does a 5 turn extension, I think a good solution for pokemon would be extending the game TURN wise. Not even 5 either, even one or two turns would work well. Maybe extend the game based on the highest number of prizes left? I realise this might delay some tournaments but at nationals I saw a game that lasted into a 17 minute sudden death because of the shedinja that doesn't let you take a prize when it is KO'd. Or how about a turn extension with a maximum amount of time that each person can take for their turn. Just some way that your opponent gets a chance to take their turn.
 
ice cold, that is BS. I hate when people KNOW theyre going to lose, but still make pointless moves instead of ending their turn. That, in my mind, is still stalling.
 
At my last Gym Challenge in St. Louis, I was running Dark Steelix/Jirachi/Swoop. I went against this rogue deck a guy was playing with Butterfree/Ludicolo/TOGETIC/Ninetales. Before the tournament, I made the mistake of dropping BF's for Desert Ruins. Yeah oops.

Anyway, I needed this win to have a shot at top 8, as I was 2-2. I took an early prize... and then stalled out with Dark Steelix... even though I couldn't attack. The deck was designed to be able to do that... I played 12 different healing cards. Finally, there was a minute left and it was my turn... although I could've steven's... swooped... I had a lot of options to stall, I didn't. I hate when people do that to me, and it was obvious this guy had the game, so I forfeited my turn. He then retreated for a Ninetales and ko'd me.

Prizes were even, 5-5... but since he made a mistake by promoting Ninetales, I was able to win the next turn with a ko from another dark steelix I had.

But this was one situation where I was NOT going to take the win by stalling out. If I would've won on a time basis and it WASN'T in the situation I just described (I did TAKE a prize to win) I would've forfeited the game. I know it sounds stupid, but I think SotG is THAT important. I was not going to win a 6 prize match with that deck... everyone who watched the game knew it... I knew it... and my opponent knew it.

Oh, oops... I'm on my sister's account on accident. Lo siento.

~ RaNd0m
 
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GrandmaJoner said:
ice cold, that is BS. I hate when people KNOW theyre going to lose, but still make pointless moves instead of ending their turn. That, in my mind, is still stalling.


It might be in your mind Joner, but is it against the rules, can you penalize someone for doing it? Nope.
 
In Japanese premier tournaments, a normal win is 3 points, a win by time is 2 points, a draw is 1 point, and a loss is obviously 0 points. I think that's a good system to encourage a person to win the game naturally - but it still doesn't solve the close game situations. They do 20 minute rounds, because it appears that most players there playtest a lot and knows all their matchups and stuff.
 
20 min is a joke. Seriously, give me a break. I don't care how well you know the matchup, you spend probably 10 minutes a match shuffling as it is.
 
ice-cold what you describe is called PLAYING. There isn't anything inherently wrong with playing defensively with only a couple of minutes remaining on the clock. Its how you do it that matters. It matters not if you would eventually loose in an untimed or extended game as long as you continue to PLAY your cards. The difficulty is that it is very hard not to abuse all the oportunities to delay that the game presents you with. This happens even if you have no intention to stall. And that before you even get into the psychological perception of the passage of time. The very need to find a defensive strategy is likely to require you to think more than at other times during the game and hence even without the intention to stall defensive play offten becomes inadvertent stalling.

The whole issue with stalling either inadvertent or deliberate has its beggest impact on match play. I'm not sure that PUI will be willing to take the step to allow the HJ to give an adjudicated outcome on that vital third game. I'm sure that PUI are considering the problem that occurs in match play. I wonder what they are thinking?

My position remains: There is no such thing as Legal Stalling. You are either playing fairly or you aren't. Stalling no matter how you do it is unfair.
 
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NoPoke said:
ice-cold what you describe is called PLAYING. There isn't anything inherently wrong with playing defensively with only a couple of minutes remaining on the clock...The very need to find a defensive strategy is likely to require you to think more than at other times during the game and hence even without the intention to stall defensive play offten becomes inadvertent stalling.

You are either playing fairly or you aren't. Stalling no matter how you do it is unfair.

What you describe is legal stalling it it's basic sense. Thinking takes time, and now more than ever it seems we spend a lot of our time doing tedious things, shuffling, quick searching, making wishes. Now I understand doing it intentionally and unintentionally is very different. But again, regardless of how you do it it is legal. I like the japanese system as far as points go but a 20 minute time limit would require a different kind of play. Players would be encouraged to play deck that can win quickly as oppose to those who take time to set up, but the point system certainly encourages fair play based on how the game should be won/lost.
 
legal stalling is like legal theft! they aren't quite oxymorons but are close enough. There should be no place for stalling in pokemon. pretending that some form of 'stalling' is allowed leads the way for all the other stalling that needs to be penalised. Just because the situation is difficult does not mean you are entitled to extra thinking time. By all means perform an unneccessary Quick Search but you'd better do it very quickly if I'm watching.

It is very difficult to play defensively whilst not at the same time risking being penalised for slow play.

If your definition of legal stalling is the same as the definition of acceptable play then why call it anything other than playing? if your definition is to make use of the floor rules then you will find that there is nothing legal about it!
 
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I know judges are on a tight secdule but why not just throw an extra 5 or 10 mins on the rounds 40 min should be more then enough to play a single game.
 
will did wat he was thinking was best for him at the time and to him it was right and un till PUI say's something about it we can talk or blame any one for stalling and etc. and i would have done the same thing and in my book he is a good egg and a good person and gl at world's will
 
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