Wind Tunnel

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Logion, Mar 28, 2008.

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  1. Logion

    Logion New Member

    -4 Pidgey SW
    -2 Pidgeotto SW
    -3 Pidgeot SW
    -1 Pidgeot d HP
    -1 Shellder SW
    -1 Cloyster d DF
    -3 Remoraid MT
    -3 Octillery MT
    -1 Skarmory ex PK
    -19 Pokes

    -4 Rare Candy
    -4 Celio's
    -3 Roseanne's
    -4 Steven's
    -3 POV
    -2 TGW
    -2 Night Maintenance
    -2 Drake's Stadium
    -24 Trainers

    -4 Holon WP
    -10 Water
    -3 DRE
    -17 Energy

    I don't know how much imput to expect on a rogue in this format, other than "-60 cards, + good G&G," but just for the heck of it I'm putting this out there. General strategy is obvious. Use pidgeot's whirlwind for good damage and minor disruption. Pidgeot d shuts down powers like the nefarious teleport, so without switches or warp points, they have to retreat manually, taking 30 from Skarmory. Octillery snipes damaged benchers and takes vengeance on special energy users. Pidgeot can also do good damage with mirror move, and neither gallade nor maggy can easily kill him off. Possible changes to the list include the addition of plus power, a pelliper d, the new cloyster instead of octillery, or cacturne d.
    Problems come from an all-lightning weakness, but since there is little lightning in format, it's not a big deal. Setup could be a bit slow, however, and my track record on creating viable trainer engines in a first time build is...questionable. I always appreciate feedback on the trainer mix, as it is the most malleable part of any deck. fire!
  2. Flygon999

    Flygon999 New Member

    You need a strong attacker that can do at least 50+ damage.
  3. Logion

    Logion New Member

    Pidgeot does 50 with whirlwind and if they retreat their new active they take 30 more from Skarmory, which adds up to 80 for 2 energy or 70 for a DRE, which is very efficient. Mirror move does damage equal to what Pidgeot took on the last turn, which can be quite a bit. Octillery hits someone with special energy for 60 and tosses the energy. I guess that qualifies as 50+, right? On the whole, this is a disruption and bench damage deck that forces your opponent to play mind games, since all the pokemon are unpredictable and versatile. Also, it is extremely difficult for any deck to score a OHKO on Pidgeot. It takes 4-5 prizes for Gallade to do it, and magmortar must have 6-7 energy attached, depending on whether or not you have a Drake's. Direct damage is not the forte of the deck, as you might have surmised.
  4. Ra2xse

    Ra2xse New Member

    Do it like this:
    4x Pidgey
    2x Pidgeotto
    3x Pidgeot
    1x Pidgeot d

    2x Remoraid MT
    2x Octrillery

    1x Skarmory ex PK
    4x Celio's Network
    1x Bebe's Search
    3x Roseanne's Research
    4x POV
    2x Steven's Advise
    2x TGW
    4x Crystal Beach=Anti GG+75% other decks.
    4x Rare Candy
    4x Pokedex=look 2 take 1, Broken if you got Space
    2x NM
    1x Warp Point
    4x Holon Energy WP
    2x Holon Energy FF
    6x Water
    2x Fighting
  5. Logion

    Logion New Member

    Unpronounceable name, you're a man after my own heart. Pokedex and CB are two of my favorite trainers, with good reason. I do have some problems with your fixes, however. In the Pokemon department, you took out the cloyster d and a line of octillery. Taking out a single line of octillery is not a bad idea, and frees up a bit of space. The cloyster, however, is God's gift to pidgeot d. It makes him untouchable, which solidifes the lock tremendously, since there can't be any flame buster action on his tail feathers, or any other effects. If they hit the field, they're there to stay. Still, if setup is too inconsistent in further testing, I will take it out.
    You're following a recent trend in running less and less energy, and 14 is far too few for my taste. I'd consider maybe 16, even 15, but never 14. You also chose to reduce consistency by dropping my 10 waters and 3 DRE to 6 water, making it virtually impossible to power up octillery for bench hitting while simultaneously making it harder to protect pidgeot with the WPs. You also added Holon FFs and two fighting energy, most likely taking into account the bannette matchup, with his resistance to pidgeot. Unfortunately, with only to fighting energy and two FFs, the probability of running into both is slim. Lastly in energy, you removed the DREs, which instantly power up any attacker in the deck, because you want CBs. Octillery already deals with special energy, albeit not as efficiently, and since this deck is not guaranteed to be a speed demon, those DREs could be lifesavers.
    Lastly, let's look at your trainer mix. At a generous 31 trainers, you covered this department very well. You switched my 4 steven's, 3 POV to 4 POV, 2 steven's. I've found that in the current format, people run big enough benches that a steven's will pull between 4 and 6 cards midgame, with a total card advantage of +3 to +5. POV always pulls 3 and puts one back in the deck, for a card advantage of +1. It is true however that steven's can only be played with a hand of six or less, but that shouldn't be a problem most of the time. In addition to my 4 Celio's you added 1 Bebe's, which is nice, if a little bit of overkill. Pokemon searcher raise consistency, so let's keep that. You put in four CB instead of my 2 Drake's, which works with your energy balance, but not with mine. Also, although it is anti GG and 75% of other decks, the whole build of this deck minimizes damage from GG after the first KO, so their energy deployment isn't such a big deal. Let's put it back to Drake's, but add 1 more from the dropped octillery line. Lastly, you added 4 pokedex and a warp point. Like I said at the beginning of this wall of words, I love pokedex, and up until my last couple of decks, I always save room for four, since it is an excellent deck thinner. However, I've found that in decks like this, it is less useful than more draw and copies of important cards. The warp point is a nice touch, but since the main attacker has a free retreat cost and everyone else has a retreat of 1, its usefulness is drastically reduced to occasions of sleep or being paralyzed, neither of which is common enough to fret about.
    So, after what I hope is mature reflection, I got these fixes out of your list:
    -1 octillery line
    +1 Bebe's
    +1 Drake's
    If you disagree with my analysis, feel free to tell me, I consider most of your changes good alternatives if this list goes wrong, and the unorthodoxy of some of your fixes intrigues me. This list is still relatively untested, and I appreciate the feedback.
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