Worlds Judging... questionable conduct?

Discussion in 'World Championships' started by GGRules!, Aug 17, 2008.

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  1. GGRules!

    GGRules! New Member

    I was talking to a player(who I won't mention) who was in worlds and they told me that in one of their games they asked for a ruling, and it took about 10 minutes to get the ruling, and when they finally got the ruling, the player asked if he could get a time extension and the judge replied "Do you want a warning too?"

    Now.. this is worlds.. I don't think that is "worlds calibur" judging.

    I'm hoping that this was the only incident, and this wasn't a common theme throughout the tournament.

  2. WinkWinkNudgeNudge

    WinkWinkNudgeNudge New Member

    Every player has to be responsible to ask for the HJ if they feel any ruling is questionable. PERIOD. If they they didn't do so the ruling shouldn't be discussed here or anywhere else.
  3. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    A lot of judges/staff were rude to me and other bystanders simply watching matches. People are asked to leave areas where they could watch their friends, or move to different places because of some ridiculously absurd possibility of collusion or something?

    And apparently standing up is "intimidating" to people. I stand 5'10'' and stood up to watch some t16 matches and got asked to sit down because I was bother some of the players, when the players I was watching didn't say a single word to the judges.

    A lot of judges were plain out rude. Definitely not what I expected. I had friends get asked to leave a watching area because they spoke a different language than the judge, and the same language as one of the players, so they were asked to leave or the player would get a warning for their actions.

    A lot of absurdity.
  4. Leonners

    Leonners New Member

    I heard, in top 8 junior a Judge was giving no penality after a claydol done with cessation crystal on the field. The opponent calls another judge who finally give a game loss.

    In top 8? Is that possible? I'm pretty sure that happened.
  5. Hatter™

    Hatter™ Active Member

    Ya.. I was hearing from a few people that some of the judges were not up to par compared to past worlds.
    Also, winkwink: They meant that, the player asked for a time extension since the ruling took a long time to get and the judge responded with: "Would you like a warning too?" It had nothing to do with the ruling.. but the judge being disrespectful to the player when they were simply asking for an extension.
  6. homeofmew

    homeofmew Active Member

    They were probable tired after the 10 minute ruling.
    But it was ok to ask for a time extention.
    However I would e-mail pop about it as a complant.
    Only if you want though.

    Doesn't sound like a big deal to me
    I got called for stalling at states when I wasn't.
    (Even my opponent didn't think I was stalling)
  7. TomShea

    TomShea New Member

    Hello everyone! I wanted to make a few observations on this topic. The first of which is that Judging is very similar to being a baseball umpire. NOBODY really appreciates them. I do have a few helpful tips for those of you that simply want to watch your friends matches.

    Sit behind your friend, don't sit behind their opponet.
    Don't comment about their game plays good or bad,
    Don't speak loud enough that others can hear you.
    Don't attempt to get thier attention in any way, if you observe a problem in the game state, get a judge

    I know the majority of you simply want to watch your friends play. The bigger the tournament the more important it is for the judges to KEEP IT FAIR. How would you like it if the judges allowed someone to gain the advantage that alloed them to win a major tournament? If something looks fishy it can't be allowed to continue. You can help make things easier for the staff in these events by not creating a situation that might be viewed as fishy.

    Tom Shea
    PTO New England
  8. ApachePrime

    ApachePrime New Member

    Happened in the last match in the grinder too. Our Brazilian friend was given a warning for stalling when the Portuguese translator was AWOHL, for asking a judge to stop his opponent from Claydol'ing when he had a cess crystal out.
  9. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Amazingly, with PUI and POP on hand to listen to complaints, no one of these complaints were made to them on site where it could possibly be dealt with swiftly and surely.
  10. ApachePrime

    ApachePrime New Member

    In PUI's defense, that was the only complaint I had and I told our friend to go talk to a judge. He simply didn't want to complain. I think the staff did an amazing job. AMAZING. I had a wonderful time, and I had absolutely no problems personally.

    I didn't mean this to sound like complaining, just supporting the idea of a few small inconsistencies.
  11. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Some of these just sound wrong to me.
    I find it hard to believe that a 10 minute ruling would not get an extension.
    That just doesn't make sense to me.

    The top 8 match with the game loss story above has some scrambled facts. It's not my place to give out the correct details, but from what I do know of it, that's not what happened.

    It seems that its very easy for the exact real thing that happened to get scrambled by the time it gets posted on these boards or as they are told from one person to another as a story after the fact.

    That's why they need to be brought up the line, to HJ and to TO at the site. Otherwise, it's hard to give weight to the complaint.
  12. The Phenom1993

    The Phenom1993 New Member

    If the judges were rude or did wrong ruilings/warnings/penalties for nothing you should have told someone immediately and not wait a day and post it over here. Now nothing can be done.
  13. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    The quality of rulings at US Nats and Worlds has always been top-notch, from my observations.

    At US Nats, I was falsely accused of passing signals to one of my top Seniors players. I was so discouraged about the accusation that I stayed away from a love of mine to watch top-level matches during the US Nats playoffs on Sunday. I'm guessing something happened somewhere that has caused a few judges/staff to be paranoid about spectating.

    In my experience, spectating has become more and more scrutinized for some reason. Back in 2001 when I was spectating the Tropical Mega Battle semis and finals, many parents/players were allowed to watch the matches up-close-and-personal. Lots has changed since then, some for the better, but mostly for the worst when it comes to facilitating spectators.

    So, for those staff workers who are always suspicious about spectators, I feel sorry for you. You are hurting the game by discouraging spectator participation at key events/matches. 99.9% of spectators are honestly interested in the excitement of viewing top-notch matches.
  14. Dante63s

    Dante63s New Member

    In Magic they put a TV with plenty of chairs so that nobody misses anything :p
  15. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    They used 3 big screens w/ video feeds of all 3 age group finals this year! No one missed a thing!

    As for spectating.....go read the tourney rules in reference to scouting. It specifically says that if you are still a competitor in the event, you CANNOT watch other matches. Now, at Worlds, we simply told players to not watch their own age group matches. You are either a competitor OR a spectator, but not both. (caveat to that rule is IF the venue for the sanctioned event does not have an area for the players to go to.) At Worlds, there was plenty of room in the hall, in the hallway, etc to get away from your age group as the rds were finishing.

    The particular rule is Tourney rules 5.2 Spectator Responsibilities. Know your rules before you spout off here about "rude judges" telling PLAYERS to leave the area. Moniter muscles are fantastic.....PUI and OP were there ALL week.....why didnt you ask for one of them??

  16. marill95

    marill95 New Member

    i comepletely agree ^ you should have just told someone from PUI
  17. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Outstanding! I wish I could've been there to watch TristanR's amazing run with his rogue-ish deck.

    Certainly, players should not be allowed to watch games in progress if they haven't been eliminated yet, per the rules.

    But, parents, friends, interested persons, should NOT be prevented from spectating, so long as they don't "disrupt." The big-screen feeds were excellent for the finals. But, many of us want to watch the matches leading up to the finals. Because of this paranoia that players will scout other matches, I suppose non-players are sometimes be prevented from spectating too.

    Analogy - I saw Yao Ming "scouting" Team USA during one of their games. Yao should be DQ'd, right?

    The player scouting rule is a bit unnecessary, in my opinion. Some PTOs/judges enforce that rule to ridiculous levels, because of this "paranoia" that players are scouting.
  18. Lawman

    Lawman Active Member

    SteveP: Were you at Worlds??? I didnt think so. There were no non players told to remove themselves from the rails UNLESS they were being disruptive, disrespectful, talking too loudly, etc. There were VALID reasons for every request by the Staff.

    The rules are very clear about the spectator issue while still in the tourney. I know I asked several MAs players, as they stood at the rail, watching matches in progress...."Do you want to be a spectator or a player, you cannot be both, per the rules".

    Sorry for the player's ignorance in the rule. But, that IS the rule!


    Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

    Are you telling me you have NEVER seen "team play" at an event???? I know it is out there and has happened. Dont you recall the gym challenges specifically when invites to worlds could be won???

    Last edited: Aug 18, 2008
  19. TomShea

    TomShea New Member

    Steve this thread really hasn't been focused on scouting. This thread has been focused on spectator behavior. Pto's/judges are not paranoid about scouting. We are worred about having a player gain an advantage through an action that shouldn't be allowed. Spectators who follow the rules and position themselves behind their players will be allowed to watch. We want to keep it fair. Nothing more nothing less. Everyone needs to follow the rules and judges/pto's need to enforce them. Ignoring bad spectator behavior is the easy thing to do, not the right thing to do. The judges at worlds should be applauded for their efforts.

    Tom Shea
    PTO New England
  20. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Keith, I support the rules. I just think the rule is a bit ridiculous, that's all.

    Sure, I wasn't there. I haven't accused anyone at Worlds 2008 of doing something wrong. I'm commenting about the experience I've had while spectating MANY events in the past.
    Every year a group of CO players goes to UT in an attempt to "steal" the UT State Champ titles. Before hand, we talk about what we might see. We often diversify our decks to cover our strengths and weaknesses. During lunch break, we talk about what we saw during play. We play as a team, hoping to win individually. We have yet to succeed. UT has defended very well.

    Players can't watch matches in progress. Let's stop there and not expand this rule to including all forms of scouting.

    Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

    I always applaud the judges/PTOs for their efforts (see my first post).

    There is no official rule that requires spectators to stand behind players. The only rule is that spectators can't disrupt, and must make comments at a distance where the players can't hear, though I can see how that could include non-verbal gestures as well.

    So, tell the players to leave and push the spectators back to a safe distance, fine.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2008
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