Flygon vs Gengar

[Surskit]

I'm planning to play Flygon at BRs, but I'm expecting to play against a lot of Gengar builds.
Any ideas how I may beat them? Seems like the matchup is pretty poor.
I play a Flygon/Dusknoir DP.

[baby mario]

It's a tough match up, but two things can help.

1) Play the SW Trapinch cos the RR one is a Shadow Room OHKO
2) Tech in a Fygon SW and let Irritating Buzz KO the Gengar without triggering Fainting Spell

[Prime]

Gengar/Nidoqueen will make sure the 2) won't happen.

[butlerforhire]

Are you running psychic energy in your list? If so, you can tech in Ditto and attempt to catch the Gengar player off guard by copying Shadow Room and getting around Feinting Spell. I know every good Gengar list is going to run multiple Unown G for the mirror, but against Flygon, they are probably not going to expect to be hit by anything other than damage and thus they won't be prioritizing the searching and attaching of Unown G, giving you a chance for at least one surprise KO via Ditto. Incidentally, it also helps you in your own mirror match.

You could tech PT Ampharos to shut off Feinting Spell. Your own Claydols would almost be guaranteed to get shut off too via their Crobat G drops or Shadow Rooms (if you don't get Unown G down) or Full Moon Dances, but that wouldn't matter if you were already set up and ran a list with decent recovery (a few Cynthia's, for example).

[vegitalian]

1) It's a good matchup already (especially w/ SW Trapinch)
2) Run 3 Unown Gs
3) Run 1 Devoluter

Those alone should put the matchup more in your favour.

[Surskit]

Alright thank you guys:smile:
I really appreciate it.
I'm probably going to tech a Ditto and a devoluter.
Thnx again.

[butlerforhire]

1) It's a good matchup already (especially w/ SW Trapinch)
2) Run 3 Unown Gs
3) Run 1 Devoluter

Those alone should put the matchup more in your favour.

Why is it "already" a good match-up? Gengar resists Flygon, and Flygon, sans techs, has no way to get around Feinting Spell. SW Flygon doesn't cut it with Nidoqueen in the mix, and that card IS in a lot of Gengar lists, for good reason.

[Articjedi]

Because no gengar player would ever think of running unown g, even if it were for it's own mirror match

[i like burdn of a day]

Because no gengar player would ever think of running unown g, even if it were for it's own mirror match

Really? So i'm supposed to expect Top players to play no unown g in thier gengar decks at Brs or Nats? i really doubt that. In a mirror match, the player with more unown g will probably win.

[vegitalian]

Why is it "already" a good match-up? Gengar resists Flygon, and Flygon, sans techs, has no way to get around Feinting Spell. SW Flygon doesn't cut it with Nidoqueen in the mix, and that card IS in a lot of Gengar lists, for good reason.

I apologize - Unown Gs are a requirement for the matchup, but with less powers running around (I don't use SW Flygon), I have found that it does really well against Gengar. Resistance doesn't matter. In a good Flygon list, you'll be doing enough damage to 2HKO the Gengar regardless.

You might have found differently, but my list has a bit of a favourable matchup to Gengar (though probably only 60-40 or 55-45).

[ShadowGuard]

Flygon doesn't have a power. Play Weavile and Guard Weavile and Claydol, then it's game. Attack, then play Uxie, Dark Engage, Psychic Restore for 50. Nidoqueen can't prevent this.

The fact that Flygon Lv.X burns deck cards and Gengar is unable to knock it out is painful enough by itself.

[Godzfirefly]

Really? So i'm supposed to expect Top players to play no unown g in thier gengar decks at Brs or Nats? i really doubt that. In a mirror match, the player with more unown g will probably win.

It was sarcasm, my friend...His point was that the recommended techs are not as useful because Gengar runs Unown G, too.

Of course, I've never seen a deck run enough Unown G to stop effects cold...Last weekend an AMU-variant tried swarming Unown Gs to stop my Machamp...not particularly effective in the long run. Decks like Gengar, Machamp, etc simply run more attack effects than you can possibly run Unown G to protect with.

[Articjedi]

Really? So i'm supposed to expect Top players to play no unown g in thier gengar decks at Brs or Nats? i really doubt that. In a mirror match, the player with more unown g will probably win.

It's a sarcastic remark, but it seems to be a pretty common attitude on the gym to assume that your opponents never tech. Just pointing it out.

[Mach]

Pretty much any Flygon varient not runnig Weavile will have a bad match-up against Gengar. Nidoqueen RR turns a lot of the 2HKO's you would have gotten into 3HKO's, and then there's still Fainting Spell.

[Charizard1987]

just play with manetric or manetric/palkia lvX instead of dusknoir. damange all gengar with flygon, but dont kill them first. Then manetric kill all in one shot. :thumb: This is the strategy i used.

[Rai]

just play with manetric or manetric/palkia lvX instead of dusknoir. damange all gengar with flygon, but dont kill them first. Then manetric kill all in one shot. :thumb: This is the strategy i used.

...Wait. You're planning on killing a bunch of Gengar at once... With Manectric..?

So let's assume we have Gengar/Nidoqueen, okay? Its generally good to assume your opponent is playing a good deck...

We need to put Gengars with 30 HP left (or less, which is going to be impossible but that'll be addressed in a second). What's the easiest way to do this? Get a Flygon. Smack active Gengar with fully evolved bench for 110 damage, no, wait, 90 due to resistance.
...Oh wait, that's actually 80, due to Nidoqueen's body removing a damage counter before their turn. Nope, nevermind. Its really 70 damage due to the body removing yet another before your next turn.

So we go "Okay, time to set up the next Gengar for kill, right?" So neat warp point tricks (can't use Palkia LV.X, or we can't hit that 110 damage that's really 70). We now are looking next turn at one Gengar with 70 damage, and another with.. 50 (the initial Gengar).

You're trying to say that spreading 30 will help when... You can't even place ONE into KO range without Pluspowers, and you'll NEVER be able to take more then two at a time 'cause you can't possibly put 100 damage onto multiple gengars at once...

Heck, let's back up. Say we have the Weavile to ignore resistance. We find some way to miraculously do 100 and nothing more (...which means... we have Weavile on the bench and no special darkness. No other evolutions in play, or else Flygon OHKOs it ://). We somehow pull Manectric out of thin air, and are able to kill off one Gengar, yes. And... have one damage counter on the other gengars by the start of your next turn. It'll take you 7 turns to accumulate enough damage on Gengars to get that massive KO if you're spreading with Manectric. Ew. Doesn't Nidoqueen make everyone's spread decks really sad?

It's essentially an awful "pray for good luck" if they set up the Nidoqueen and swarm Gengars... I suppose you can try to pull tricks to KO that Nidoqueen, but good luck finding a way to have 120 damage, especially since you'll want a Palkia LV.X or something to bring that thing active in the first place. :[ Also good luck with being highly vulnerable to those Fainting Spells.