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View Full Version : Experiments in Energy Manipulation, #8



bullados
09/22/2009, 08:45 AM
1: Blastoise
2: Feraligatr
3: Gardevoir
4: Dark Steelix
5: Flygon / Nidoqueen
6: Electivire / Dragonite
7: Flygon / Weavile

8: Electivire

Pokemon (20):
3 Electivire FB
1 Electivire FB LvX
4 Vulpix PT
1 Ninetales MT
3 Electabuzz SW
3 Electivire SW
2 Porygon GE
2 Porygon2 GE
1 Azelf LA

Trainers (24):
4 Felicity
4 Roseanne
4 Bebe
3 Cyrus
4 Energy Gain
1 Luxury Ball
2 Palmer
2 Premier Ball

Energy (16):
14 Electric
2 Fire

I think this thing is pretty simple. Start with either Vulpix or Electabuzz FB and start discarding energy from Turn 1. Evolve to Vire SW quickly (need space for TSD) to recycle the energy, level up to FBLvX, and start smashing. This deck should get Turn 2 80+ most games. Porygon2 instead of Claydol to use my Supporters quickly (namely Felicity). Plus, with Reheat and D&D, my hand is going to be very big, very quick. Energy Gain helps ensure the Turn 2 mayhem, and Cyrus is such a pretty combo with Porygon2 it's almost scary. Cyrus into a Gain, and Energy, and a Felicity, discard the Energy to draw more cards with the Felicity, and then use another Supporter later on. it's a pretty little combo.

I haven't really played with this yet, just trying something different (for once). I don't think it can handle running less than 16 energy, and I'd kinda prefer a little bit more for Reheat purposes. The 4th Vulpix is to ensure that I always get an ideal or nearly ideal start with either a Vulpix or an FB active T1.

I want to try and find space for a few TSD and an SW VireX, but I'm not really sure what to cut. The 4th Vulpix is to ensure an ideal start. The 4th Felicity is absolutely ideal. The 4th Roseanne gets more energy out of the deck for Felicity to discard. The 4th Bebe is to get stuff that the others just don't get often enough. 2 Palmer and 2 Premier to get back the Vires that get sniped and the Vires that get KO'd. The Ninetales makes Flygon cry (if it wasn't already taking some 150 damage from my Vire)

Prime
09/22/2009, 08:48 AM
I think if you want to be discarding energy 'from turn 1', you'll need more than 16 energy in the deck. I would think upwards of 18-20 needed to really increase the odds of starting with more than 1 energy in turn 1 every game.

Seems a shame to run 4 Vulpix and 0 Ninetails. I hear the MT Ninetails can be nifty in certain cases.

I think you can drop a Roseanne, since Cyrus' Conspiracy also gets energy from the deck.

edit: Did you just edit the deck, or did I miss the 1 Ninetails MT?

edit 2: I feel Uxie is a needed card in every deck. Have NO idea what to cut for it, though. Maybe a Vulpix if your testing shows a very good chance of starting with Ele or Vulpix turn 1.

bullados
09/22/2009, 08:59 AM
Ninetales was in the deck from its inception. It initially had some Volkner, but I cut those cuz they weren't fast enough, and I wasn't drawing anything off them.

I agree on the energy count. 16 is my bare minimum for this deck, and I'd like it to approach your 18-20 count, but I'm also afraid for the late game and not being able to reset quickly enough after a tough KO. I'll sacrifice a little early game consistency for the late game consistency; I don't think it'll be easy to take 6 prizes against this thing anyway.

The reason the Starter count is so high is to ensure that I won't need Uxie. My hand size should always be in the 10-14 range from turn 2 onwards, so Uxie wouldn't help me very much.

Maybe dropping down the number of Gains might help? But then how do I ensure that I get then quickly enough? Could I drop a Bebe with all the card drawing already in here? I can't really see where to drop things out, and I kinda prefer Porygon in this type of deck over Claydol. It makes it easier to discard stuff fast.

corrupti0n
09/22/2009, 10:26 AM
Try sable eye? Impersonate felicities to discard 2 energies a turn.

Prime
09/22/2009, 11:08 AM
With your hand being full a lot, I can definitely see the reason behind Porygon2 over Claydol. I can even see the reason for the absence of Uxie. I still feel that Uxie would come in a lot of us for the times where you start with Porygon, and have a Roseanne and a few energy in your hand.

Definitely Uxie would have very limited use mid-late game. It could be useful against Machamp lv.X, though. With an Unown G on it, it can do some interesting stuff to Machamp, forcing it to either Hurricane Lucky Flip, or level up for the guaranteed KO, which you can then follow up with a KO on the Machamp Lv.X next turn. I ran into this at a Battle Road yesterday. Guy took 3 prizes with just Uxie+unown G plus putting under deck and reusing every other turn.

Speaking of Unown G, that definitely seems to be missing. This will hurt your Machamp/Gengar matches a bit since Electivire FB is a basic, and so much of your bench will have a Poke-Power.

I feel you could possibly lose a 1-1 Electivire SW. If one part is prized, true you can only get 1 Electivire out. Without unown G's, your Electivires w/ the energy on them are vunerable to Gengar snipes.

Maybe you should consider Togekiss GE over Electivire SW. 2-1-2 Togekiss instead of 3-3 Electivire, and you'd focus less on discarding and more on using Togekiss's Poke-Power to lay up to 10 energy at a time on the field.

Just a few thoughts for now.

bullados
09/22/2009, 12:22 PM
If I run Sableye, it means that I'm not running Ninetales, which takes care of my Machamp and Flygon issues, and it means that I'm giving my opponent tremendous draw advantage over me always going second.

Electivire SW is less susceptible to Power Spray, and it's more than a touch faster than Togekiss (especially with my awful topdeck luck).

I don't think it's a good idea to drop the Vire count, as it's absolutely essential to getting the damage high quickly. Not to mention that Vire SW is not a terrible backup attacker, essentially saccing itself for a flippy but likely KO and allowing the other Vires to repower themselves in the next turn.

I like lists, so I'm gonna make one right now...

This deck needs:
1-2 Unown G
2-4 BTS
1 Electivire SW LvX

Nice To Have:
1 Uxie

Possible spots to remove:
1-2 Bebe (?)
1 Gain (?)

I'm not really sure where to take stuff out for the essentials in this thing, as I do think that those three cards are essential, and Uxie is helpful but not necessary. Any thoughts as to where I can find another 3-4 spots in here?

Colts8729
09/22/2009, 08:09 PM
You might not need premier ball. You could just add in some SP Radar mostly because it is searchable by Cyrus and the only other Invention you have is Gain.

bullados
09/23/2009, 05:31 AM
Premier Ball gets the Vire out of the Discard, which is reason enough to run it over Radar.

grimlithwarrior
09/23/2009, 11:56 AM
Sunyshore Gym Couldn't Hurt to have
No Weakness and You don't Get your damage Reduced be Resistance

bullados
09/23/2009, 01:11 PM
Another card that's nice to have in a deck where I can't find space for it.

What cards can be removed from the deck without defeating the purpose of the deck?