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FlareonMaster
10/15/2009, 09:58 AM
This is a thread to vary which deck is better of the 2? Mother Gengar is amazing when it comes to healing and trying to avoid Posion/Burn deaths and having your opponent skip out on Fainting Spell, but with Metal Gengar decks, you can easily OHKO Claydol's, Pixies and any Pokemon with a Poke Power which has 70-80 HP usually. Both are great, so in everyone's opinion, which of the two are better and if they equal out to be the same, are they good together? Do people think it is viable to also create Mother-Metal Genagr?

IMO, they are both great together or separately and the main reason I put this thread up is because I am considering a Mother-Metal Gengar deck which is why I want opinions. LOL

Azure Kite
10/15/2009, 10:22 AM
Moving to Card Strategy forum.

Stigma
10/15/2009, 10:29 AM
Metal Gengar is trash.
You die FAR too easily and fainting spell never gets activated.
Metagross can't attack like nidoqueen can.
Metagross is a huge retreat liability.
Metal Gengar gets OWNED by any sort of spread decks.
The -20 on your opponent doesnt even do anything to a smart player. They'll guard their powers the second they play them.
Mother Gengar has a VERY good offense/defense balance. Metal Gengar has NO defense whatsoever. That's really not a good play.

r3skyline
10/15/2009, 10:30 AM
what happened to gechamp? no love for gechamp? lol

Stigma
10/15/2009, 10:31 AM
GeChamp is okay if you do it right. Running claydol in it is just a bad idea.

ryanvergel
10/15/2009, 10:32 AM
GeChamp is okay if you do it right. Running claydol in it is just a bad idea.

The people who made GeChamp, the Rolls from Florida, who arguably did the best with it (winning FL states in two age divisions) ran Claydol.

Claydol belongs in almost every competitive deck. The only decks that don't run it are AMU, Scizor/Cherrim, and a few SP decks.

smacktack15
10/15/2009, 10:35 AM
In my GeChamp list I played a 2-3 Claydol with a Great Ball. It proved to do well as I went 8-2 at Regionals with it.

ryanvergel
10/15/2009, 11:27 AM
WHAT IS WITH 2-3 CLAYDOL!?

I hate when I see this line of pokemon. You realize it only increases your odds of opening with a Claydol in hand by about 10%? You really gave up another deck spot to increase your odds of opening with it by 10%? If you feared them getting knocked out- then you're better off playing a TSD or Pokemon Rescue, as that card can at least get back other pokemon. Why not run an extra Luxury Ball?

I see no logic in running a 2-3 Claydol. 10% better odds of opening with a card that itself depends on other cards to be used just does no warrant the extra spot. I find this a great example of F.P.S., or "Fancy Play Syndrome". A player thinks that by doing things in some sparkly, weird, different way that they actually gain an advantage merely from that fact.

flariados
10/15/2009, 11:36 AM
I think it would be smarter to run 3-3 claydol instead of 2-3 claydol, because then it's far easier to get out 2 claydol and you can use cosmic power TWICE!

FlareonMaster
10/15/2009, 11:39 AM
What is up with Claydol talk? However, the best way for Claydol is either 2-2 or 3-3 and not 2-3 which I have to agree with isn't the best way to go. So far I have gotten the opinion that Metal Gengar isn't the best while Mother Gengar is. Also, this is about straight Gengar decks and not GeChamp, however that is also a decent deck. So is it safe to say that people believe Mother Gengar is better than Metal? Does anyone think that Mother-Metal Gengar will be a top deck soon?

xcfrisco
10/15/2009, 11:59 AM
With SP being really popular still, I'd say GeChamp is the better Gengar deck (lol what are the other options?straight gengar, mother gengar and metal gengar?). Probably won't be the case when the Arceus rolls out though.

Chompy
10/15/2009, 12:02 PM
The good thing about Mother Gengar is whenever your opponent had a low number of cards in their hand (Making the use of Gengar's Poltergeist less effective), and you needed to deal out a ton of damage. All you need to do is bring out Nidoqueen as your mid-late game attacker and start pummeling your opponent's Pokemon with your rutheless tail.

Metaghost is actually better than you think Stigma. While Metagross is in play, you can OHKO Uxies, Claydols, and even non fully evolved basics (50 HP) with Gengar's Shadow Room. You mentioned something about Metagross being brought out with high retreat. Well, thats why there are 2 warp points in a deck and if your smart enough to attach a Unown G to Metagross. Metagross wouldn't be brought out in the first place. A really cool trick is if you had Miamas Valley out in play and your opponent places a Basic down, that Pokemon (other than Grass/Psychic) would recieve 2 damage counters + Metagross's Pokebody, which leads them to having 10 HP left. Oh, the endless possiblilites of what you could do with that deck. Sure Gengar gets -20, but that's what Fainting Spell is for right?

Whatever happened to the Gengar/Starmie idea?

FlareonMaster
10/15/2009, 12:11 PM
The good thing about Mother Gengar is whenever your opponent had a low number of cards in their hand (Making the use of Gengar's Poltergeist less effective), and you needed to deal out a ton of damage. All you need to do is bring out Nidoqueen as your mid-late game attacker and start pummeling your opponent's Pokemon with your rutheless tail.

Metaghost is actually better than you think Stigma. While Metagross is in play, you can OHKO Uxies, Claydols, and even non fully evolved basics (50 HP) with Gengar's Shadow Room. You mentioned something about Metagross being brought out with high retreat. Well, thats why there are 2 warp points in a deck and if your smart enough to attach a Unown G to Metagross. Metagross wouldn't be brought out in the first place. A really cool trick is if you had Miamas Valley out in play and your opponent places a Basic down, that Pokemon (other than Grass/Psychic) would recieve 2 damage counters + Metagross's Pokebody, which leads them to having 10 HP left. Oh, the endless possiblilites of what you could do with that deck. Sure Gengar gets -20, but that's what Fainting Spell is for right?

Whatever happened to the Gengar/Starmie idea?

I agree with everything you said and with the lv.X coming soon Gengar will still have 120 HP due to Metagross. What is the probability of Mother-Metal Gengar becoming popular though and what is this with Starmie? Never heard of it. LOL

Mac_736_the_Gh0st
10/15/2009, 12:55 PM
2-3 Claydol is best way to play this line IMO. If I have 1 free space in my deck I everytime fill it by 3rd Claydol.
And like smacktack15 said, with 1 Great Ball it is better than 2-2 + Luxury or anything else ....
I for sure prefer 2-3 Claydol and 3-4 (4 is better) Call NRG.
To Gengar list : I play 1-0-1 Nidoqueen a 1-0-1 Dusknoir with 1 Relicanth and I am very satisfied with my testing results ...

Stigma
10/15/2009, 02:23 PM
The people who made GeChamp, the Rolls from Florida, who arguably did the best with it (winning FL states in two age divisions) ran Claydol.

Claydol belongs in almost every competitive deck. The only decks that don't run it are AMU, Scizor/Cherrim, and a few SP decks.


And guess what, ryan
that was states
this is cities next year
HUGE difference.

Although I will agree, 2-3 claydol is just stupid.

FlareonMaster
10/15/2009, 02:43 PM
I think 2-3 Claydol is stupid still as well due to the fact of, well, I will put it this way, I agree with what RyanVergel said about it and the 10% more chance and stuff. I have never thought it to be suited. Which version of Gengar is best in everyones opinion when it comes to the 3 choices and a possible 4th choice (excluding GeChamp as that is simply Gengar in a deck than his own deck) being...

Mother Gengar
Metal Gengar
Straight Gengar

Possible 4th spot....
Mother-Metal Gengar

PokePockets
10/15/2009, 02:46 PM
Throwing both Metagross AND Nidoqueen with Gengar? That's a bit ugly

I think looking to the new set can give you Gengar ideas.

Play 2 of the new Gengar that has Poke-Power "Curse", and then play either Bronzong MD or Gallade 4, depending on your preference. Some people don't like the play SP and evo's together

goliaththegreat
10/15/2009, 02:57 PM
Mother Gengar is the best way to go or just straight Gengar

FlareonMaster
10/15/2009, 03:01 PM
Throwing both Metagross AND Nidoqueen with Gengar? That's a bit ugly

I think looking to the new set can give you Gengar ideas.

Play 2 of the new Gengar that has Poke-Power "Curse", and then play either Bronzong MD or Gallade 4, depending on your preference. Some people don't like the play SP and evo's together

How is it ugly? Is it because that could be a top deck? I wouldn't use the new Gengar's myself, but everyone has their own opinion on that. I have known about the new Gengars since before the set was even shown on Pokebeach and don't think that they are any good.

ryanvergel
10/15/2009, 03:01 PM
And guess what, ryan
that was states
this is cities next year
HUGE difference.

Although I will agree, 2-3 claydol is just stupid.

That doesn't change the fact that the deck hasn't changed at all since then?

GeChamp looks exactly the same it did in April as it does in August. Claydol included.

toxicroak 96
10/15/2009, 03:02 PM
I have tested Mother Gengar and its just simply too luck-based for my tastes, GeChamp has done well for me and Claydol is the play because you won't even get set up without it.

Stigma
10/15/2009, 03:04 PM
That doesn't change the fact that the deck hasn't changed at all since then?

GeChamp looks exactly the same it did in April as it does in August. Claydol included.

That doesn't make it good. A more adapted GeChamp will beat SP much more easily.

prodigal_fanboy
10/15/2009, 03:07 PM
That doesn't change the fact that the deck hasn't changed at all since then?

GeChamp looks exactly the same it did in April as it does in August. Claydol included.

No love for Relicanth?

toxicroak 96
10/15/2009, 03:08 PM
Relicanth does help the deck a ton.

FlareonMaster
10/15/2009, 03:24 PM
Relicanth does help a lot but sometimes isn't needed. However he isn't only good in Gengar, but is good in other decks too like Machamp, Flygon and SP decks.

ryanvergel
10/15/2009, 04:45 PM
You're right. It's 59/60. How could I forget that ugly monster fish?

FlareonMaster
10/15/2009, 04:46 PM
You're right. It's 59/60. How could I forget that ugly monster fish?

LOL, well he isn't the worst, he is very good when it comes to certain battles but is simply a waist when it comes to not needing him and he is simply in your hand.

FunnyBear
10/15/2009, 06:39 PM
This is totally turning into a poll, but anyway...
I prefer Metagross to Nidoqueen. Its not as easy as you think to guard all those powers and Gengar just needs to take a few cheap prizes. Who cares if Gengar gets KOd with 90? You want to be able to flip. Also in the current meta, you can be hamstrung by your own Nidoqueen. If a Flygon Lock deck Sand Tombs something with Nidoqueen on the bench, it will never die. ....

jirachinick
10/15/2009, 06:50 PM
I just use straight Gengar, nothing else, it's fast, easy to use, and it won me 4/8 matches at qualifiers, but lost to dusknoir/tyranitar, which destroys Gengar, so, I suggest straight Gengar

toxicroak 96
10/15/2009, 06:53 PM
GeChamp is the best way to run it in this format probably.

Shino Bug Master
10/15/2009, 07:46 PM
I prefer it with Alakazam.

"I'll use Guard on Claydol"
"Power Cancel"
"... what?"

:D Shadow Rooming Unown Gs is just awesome.

mewbreon
10/15/2009, 07:54 PM
I prefer it with Alakazam.

"I'll use Guard on Claydol"
"Power Cancel"
"... what?"

:D Shadow Rooming Unown Gs is just awesome.

FACT.

the only bad thing is not having ....dare is say his name......KADABRA


@flareonmaster

gengar/queen/gross will NEVER, i repeat NEVER be a top deck. 3 different stage 2s in 1 deck!? in a format full of luxape varients, bees, the new charizard.... i mean come on man

Bellawesome
10/15/2009, 07:57 PM
I think the gengar deck that can have the most tricks and still be consistent is the best, which is why many ppl say machamp or gross over qween. The heal defense with queen gets old quick, and it has next to no outs vs flylock.

mewbreon
10/15/2009, 08:02 PM
I think the gengar deck that can have the most tricks and still be consistent is the best, which is why many ppl say machamp or gross over qween. The heal defense with queen gets old quick, and it has next to no outs vs flylock.

im sorry-- can someone quick explain to me the details behind flylock

Cetra
10/15/2009, 08:17 PM
Considering the Lv. X coming out, I'm pry going to either run Gengar with Metagross or Gengar with Dusknoir. OR with BOTH! XD

I havn't really decided yet, but to be perfectly honest, I had no problems with running Gengar and Metagross together when I did it; it worked perfectly fine for me. Though I do like the idea of nidoqueen, including it's ability to heal, I just figure that with the new Gengar X and it's spread attack, metagross with a potential miasma valley combo would just work better (mayb omastar or devoluter?).

Cool thing is that we have months before cities to start testing everything out, right?

Ariadosman
10/15/2009, 10:03 PM
Nidoqueen is better than Metagross IMO. Makes it very difficult to play around Fainting Spell, and unlike metagross, doesn't put your own Claydols at a horrible 60 HP which just screams Luxray KO. Crobat G's are much more effective to KO support pokemon than Metagross.

Additionally, Nidouqeen is a good back-up attacker as normal Gengar's attacks can be played around and their effectiveness can be reduced. Nidoqueen can still offer some solid damage if necessary.

Shen
10/15/2009, 10:40 PM
gengar/queen/gross will NEVER, i repeat NEVER be a top deck. 3 different stage 2s in 1 deck!? in a format full of luxape varients, bees, the new charizard.... i mean come on man

Sami S played Flygon, Machamp, and Nidoqueen all in the same deck, total'n to 28 Pokemon. Jay H played 3 Stage 2's as well.

Guess 2nd & 3rd at Worlds don't qualify as top decks though.

And FlyLock is basically Flygon Lv. X on a Trapinch SW w/ a Memory Berry. You use Inviting Trap to pull up a high retreat Pokemon to try and tangle up your opponent's field, in the meantime discarding cards off the top of their deck. If they can't retreat the very next turn, you Sand Tomb 'em. Sorta tough to play around unless you run good with Unown G. Some variants play regi;ar Palkia Lv. X and Reconstructure something that isn't a big threat (Like Claydol, and Flygon usually gets free retreat across the field from Rainbow Float so the side effects of the Power are irrelevant) and then immediately Sand Tomb. Takes the Inviting Trap out of the play.

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/15/2009, 11:01 PM
lol well here my off topic part sp pokemon in my area have kinda died out thier more tek card more then anything.
yes a palkia lock deck did win a br but that one person where 90 of the masters where playing a stage 1 or 2 deck
thier for i have seen the format change back to the days when we had flygon ex except we dont have anywhere close to how good that holon engine was with gaint stump
ok back to the subject metal gengar is for when ur on the attack.
so if ur someone who like to get frast easly donks then that the deck for u.
now it only help u to get ur gengar less hp bc ut a 50 50 who ever said it doesn ever work out is wrong what it come down to is luck to be honest with u now u can go head and sayu what u want mother gengar is a good deck but u it 3 engers if it get brought up. and it had a heavly retreat cost thier for it.
yes u can say the same thing about metagross but if ur smart u plan fot that and have metal engery in ur deck comeon now metagross has a pretty good attack it only does 60 and 20 to all of the same type. which is pretty good bc that help out gengar even more for easly donks.
where mother just can hit for 90 damage max weak to the most played type in the format ok im bye est but i just think metal gengar a better deck and u can try to have all 3 but this deck u need to focust on either or.
my freind top cutted 3 time with metal gengar. he brother trying to win a ranking invit to worlds so he concieded which i find totall wrong.
but hey who am i to judge he also beat him every time that deck play eacher. metal gengar is a counter to reybee or beedril so if that that arch type in ur area think about playing metal gengar i do have a list if u want it just pm me and ask mke for the list.
he clouldive won 3 br well the thrid br he played that deck he played me first round we had 2 really good games. i dont count the 1 game bc he had the post deck check start where i had amzing start he scoop after 10 minits but the last too where barn burners going down to the last prizes.
anyways im planning on either sticking with duskalled or going to metal gengar.
ok well if anyone think im wrong then pm and tell me what u think or if u think im right also im looking for a luxrey gl lvx if u have one pm and tell me what u want for it

baby mario
10/15/2009, 11:15 PM
Eh, I think Metagross in Gengar is somewhat over-rated.

What does it do exactly? Let you get OHKOs on un-Guarded Pixies and Claydol, mainly. Gengar can do that earlier and more efficiently with Bat drops and Poke Turns.

Meanwhile, it could make avoiding Fainting Spell with Cobat/Status Conditions that little bit easier. (Blaziken/Blaziken can Clutch and wait for the Burn flip, for example).

Nidoqueen, on the other hand, protects Gengar's major asset, Fainting Spell, and can be a useful back up attacker.

If you are expecting to play against SP decks, then Gengar/Machamp/Relicanth is the best choice imo. Otherwise, use Gengar/Queen.

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/16/2009, 02:10 AM
ok ur calling metagross overrated? im calling nidqueen over rated.
have u played either deck?
i have not played mother gengar
but i have played a metal gengar deck.
and u it can do as much as nidoqueen.
ok maybe not the healing thing but look at it can hit the bench somthing ppl seem to for get about is an important part of any deck. with the release of gengar lvx which hit everyone that had damage on it.
thier for nidoqueen does not help it out as much.
in case u didnt know metagross attack hit the bench but it only hit the same type as the defending pokemon
know u poeple r only saying gengar useful for faiting spell. not the fact that it can do more then that also it has a free retreat coast so it not like ur going to leave gengat upthier to get ok buy a status or anything. it not like it gengar has a high retreat cost.

one last thing about what u call over rated card...
if u goback to br u will find that everyone deck has alot of the same type in it ok sp tool belt is a match up where u would not attack with metagros but u will find that everyone play the same type that in thier deck
im just saying
so dont call metagros overrated until u played it.

drue-corey
10/16/2009, 02:20 AM
I play 4-2-4 gengar, 1-0-1 machamp and 1-1-1 nidoqueen in my gengar list. I had a total of 29 pokemon in mine, but have since cut down to 28 with great results.

baby mario
10/16/2009, 02:29 AM
ok ur calling metagross overrated? im calling nidqueen over rated.

Oh noes!, You got me there.


have u played either deck?

Yes.


i have not played mother gengar

So, why are you saying it is over-rated then? Just cos I said that about your precious Metagross? Bit childish, no?


but i have played a metal gengar deck.
and u it can do as much as nidoqueen.

So you have only played one, but you are going to compare them. OK.


ok maybe not the healing thing but look at it can hit the bench somthing ppl seem to for get about is an important part of any deck. with the release of gengar lvx which hit everyone that had damage on it.
thier for nidoqueen does not help it out as much.

You are seriously planning to use Metagross as an attacker? You are putting Metal Energy in your deck and spending 3 turns powering it up when you already have a bench sniper in Gengar? Nidoqueen does 40 for 1 Psychic (which you run anyway) and 50+ for a Psychic and an Upper. Please don't claim that Metagross is a better attacking option than Nidoqueen. That's just silly.


in case u didnt know metagross attack hit the bench but it only hit the same type as the defending pokemon

I did know, but cheers anyway.


know u poeple r only saying gengar useful for faiting spell. not the fact that it can do more then that also it has a free retreat coast so it not like ur going to leave gengat upthier to get ok buy a status or anything. it not like it gengar has a high retreat cost.

Yep, I knew about the free retreat too. Please note that I didn't say Gengar was ONLY useful for Fainting Spell, just that Fainting Spell is the best thing about Gengar. Without it, I doubt it would see play. Even if you don't get a single heads with it, it still forces your opponent to waste turns and resources messing around with Crobats and Uxies instead of just KOing it with their main attacker. That is very disruptive and is what makes Gengat viable imo.


one last thing about what u call over rated card...
if u goback to br u will find that everyone deck has alot of the same type in it ok sp tool belt is a match up where u would not attack with metagros but u will find that everyone play the same type that in thier deck
im just saying
so dont call metagros overrated until u played it.

OK, by now I'm tired of trying to make sense of your mangled text speak and poor grammar so I'll just repeat the point that Metagross will not work as an attacker in a Gengar deck. It's far too slow and its Energy needs are not compatible.

FlareonMaster
10/16/2009, 07:57 AM
I am sticking to my opinions that both are great, but maybe neither will work together, however I don't think I am the only one who thinks it is possible for Mother-Metal Gengar decks. Someone said that Charizard was playable above, my only question is to that person is, where do you come from seeing Charizard playable unless of course you mean the one from AoA which is a possibility but not the one from SV.

mewbreon
10/16/2009, 08:52 AM
i meaan zard from AoA + experbelt

pretty broken imo

FlareonMaster
10/16/2009, 09:30 AM
Yeah, I will agree to that. LOL, 50 for one energy!

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/16/2009, 02:56 PM
lmao talk ur smack about how i speack and what not baby mario
i really dont care what u have to say.
and metagros is a better attaker.
maybe u dont know how to play chest or something, but metagros well help u put ur oppentit into a check mate which is somthing nideoqueen cant do and bye putting in upper engerys u only in crease ir chance of drawing then and not the basic engery u need where as metagros does just 2 metal which u can fetch for.
or draw in to which will help out, know u forget gengar only need 2 engerys to to it 2 attack and ur telling me that after building up my gengars well not be focusing on building up my metaros so thier for metagros wont be up for 3 turns taking damage ok. once again matagros help out gengar lvx. and faiting spell is not the main reason why u used gengar.
the fact u can snipe and if ur able to lock thier supporters / trainers u can crush them with a big attack.
but mother gengar will be better then metagros when hgss come out i will agree on u with that bc know nidoqueen bc an t2 attacker

Happiny13
10/16/2009, 03:21 PM
Reasons to use Nidoqueen
-Great attacker against Machamp, Flygon...[easy to get 3 energy on it while using one on Gengar]
-Heals while Gengar uses its free retreat to go to the bench. A couple turns later around 60-80 damage has been healed.
-Gets rid of Infernape 4s split bomb.
Reasons to use Metagross
Quick KOs
Reasons Not to use Metagross
90 HP on Gengar
Bad attack[needs 2 metal energy while you already need fighting energy for relicanth]
60 Hp Claydol and crobats.

Retreat is even so I did not mention that.

ShadowGuard
10/16/2009, 03:50 PM
Nidoqueen is better.
Why?

Standard Flygon deck vs Gengar.

Flygon Power Swing for 70 (90 - 20) damage. No option for Gengar to heal.
Next turn, Uxie Psychic Restore for 20 damage, knockout without Fainting Spell.

Gengar is unable to hurt Flygon if its player is skilled and gets a decent start. Gengar may take 1-2 prizes but then it can't do anything, exspecially when Flygon runs Nidoqueen. So this is kind of autoloss against a good player.

Mother Gengar can't hurt Flygon either, but at least, Flygon can't KO it without triggering Faiting Spell or using some kind of weird trick. Most times, the only thing Flygon can do against a good Mother Gengar is stalling for deckout with Wind Erosion or trying to reach XHKOs with Flygon SW + Uxie.



btw last weekend I played against Metal Gengar with Garchomp. He took a lot of prizes before I finished my setup. I thought I got him when I had Ampharos and Nidoqueen set, but after all my Warp Points were used, he loaded his Gengar with 4 Energy and it was close to timeout. But he had Miasma Valley and Unown G in play, so I just took Relicanth and sniped his bench stuff because they had <= 60 HP thanks to Metagross. He was unable to KO Relicanth before it took 3 prizes.

Xuii2-the-cleric
10/16/2009, 04:05 PM
my gengar list was
4-2-4 gengar
2-2 dol
1 amu
4 ssu
won a br

FlareonMaster
10/16/2009, 06:37 PM
Nidoqueen seems to be the way to go. LOL

Shino Bug Master
10/16/2009, 07:06 PM
lmao talk ur smack about how i speack and what not baby mario
i really dont care what u have to say.
and metagros is a better attaker.
maybe u dont know how to play chest or something, but metagros well help u put ur oppentit into a check mate which is somthing nideoqueen cant do and bye putting in upper engerys u only in crease ir chance of drawing then and not the basic engery u need where as metagros does just 2 metal which u can fetch for.
or draw in to which will help out, know u forget gengar only need 2 engerys to to it 2 attack and ur telling me that after building up my gengars well not be focusing on building up my metaros so thier for metagros wont be up for 3 turns taking damage ok. once again matagros help out gengar lvx. and faiting spell is not the main reason why u used gengar.
the fact u can snipe and if ur able to lock thier supporters / trainers u can crush them with a big attack.
but mother gengar will be better then metagros when hgss come out i will agree on u with that bc know nidoqueen bc an t2 attacker

I want to know how to play Chest :D

GeChamp, while it may be a strategiless mass of easy damage desiring junk, is still the best option for Gengar in my opinion. with all the easy scorable Kos off Take Out, Fainting Spell, Relicanth's attack and Shadow Room, for 1 energy is about as bad as Gyarados. Excet that you can hit the bench and not just sacrifical Crobat Gs.

baby mario
10/16/2009, 11:52 PM
lmao talk ur smack about how i speack and what not baby mario
i really dont care what u have to say.
and metagros is a better attaker.
maybe u dont know how to play chest or something, but metagros well help u put ur oppentit into a check mate which is somthing nideoqueen cant do and bye putting in upper engerys u only in crease ir chance of drawing then and not the basic engery u need where as metagros does just 2 metal which u can fetch for.
or draw in to which will help out, know u forget gengar only need 2 engerys to to it 2 attack and ur telling me that after building up my gengars well not be focusing on building up my metaros so thier for metagros wont be up for 3 turns taking damage ok. once again matagros help out gengar lvx. and faiting spell is not the main reason why u used gengar.
the fact u can snipe and if ur able to lock thier supporters / trainers u can crush them with a big attack.
but mother gengar will be better then metagros when hgss come out i will agree on u with that bc know nidoqueen bc an t2 attacker

I don't know whether to :lol: or :frown:

I do know that I also want to play chest AND be able to lock Supporters with Gengar.

nnaann
10/17/2009, 03:28 AM
lmao talk ur smack about how i speack and what not baby mario
i really dont care what u have to say.
and metagros is a better attaker.
maybe u dont know how to play chest or something, but metagros well help u put ur oppentit into a check mate which is somthing nideoqueen cant do and bye putting in upper engerys u only in crease ir chance of drawing then and not the basic engery u need where as metagros does just 2 metal which u can fetch for.
or draw in to which will help out, know u forget gengar only need 2 engerys to to it 2 attack and ur telling me that after building up my gengars well not be focusing on building up my metaros so thier for metagros wont be up for 3 turns taking damage ok. once again matagros help out gengar lvx. and faiting spell is not the main reason why u used gengar.
the fact u can snipe and if ur able to lock thier supporters / trainers u can crush them with a big attack.
but mother gengar will be better then metagros when hgss come out i will agree on u with that bc know nidoqueen bc an t2 attacker

You're right, Baby Mario doesn't know what he's talking about and his opinion doesn't matter. He's only had Worlds Invites the last 2 years, and we all know how easy those are to get :thumb:

Me and my brother ran Gengar for alot of last season, both getting 2nd at our States with it and my brother also got 2nd at Nationals with it. Metagross is bad in Gengar. I prefer techs like Alakazam over Nidoqueen, but Nidoqueen> Metagross all the way. If you want to run Metagross, run it with Empoleon MD. So what, Uxies and Claydol can be 1HKO'd? I can 1HKO them easily with Crobat G Drops/Cress X anyway. Besides by the time you get Gengar and Metagross set up, they've probably G'd their Claydol anyway.

FlareonMaster
10/17/2009, 05:21 AM
You're right, Baby Mario doesn't know what he's talking about and his opinion doesn't matter. He's only had Worlds Invites the last 2 years, and we all know how easy those are to get :thumb:

Me and my brother ran Gengar for alot of last season, both getting 2nd at our States with it and my brother also got 2nd at Nationals with it. Metagross is bad in Gengar. I prefer techs like Alakazam over Nidoqueen, but Nidoqueen> Metagross all the way. If you want to run Metagross, run it with Empoleon MD. So what, Uxies and Claydol can be 1HKO'd? I can 1HKO them easily with Crobat G Drops/Cress X anyway. Besides by the time you get Gengar and Metagross set up, they've probably G'd their Claydol anyway.

True, however Metagross is used in other decks than just Empoleon. LOL.

jjkkl
10/17/2009, 05:49 AM
I'd rather run Gengar / Nidoqueen rather than Gengar / Metagross.

Metagross is meant to bypass the Claydol issue with it being guarded, which is simply ridiculous - if you want to KO it, use Crobat or Relicanth. That's significantly less space.

Box of Fail
10/17/2009, 09:43 AM
WHAT IS WITH 2-3 CLAYDOL!?

I hate when I see this line of pokemon. You realize it only increases your odds of opening with a Claydol in hand by about 10%? You really gave up another deck spot to increase your odds of opening with it by 10%? If you feared them getting knocked out- then you're better off playing a TSD or Pokemon Rescue, as that card can at least get back other pokemon. Why not run an extra Luxury Ball?

I see no logic in running a 2-3 Claydol. 10% better odds of opening with a card that itself depends on other cards to be used just does no warrant the extra spot. I find this a great example of F.P.S., or "Fancy Play Syndrome". A player thinks that by doing things in some sparkly, weird, different way that they actually gain an advantage merely from that fact.

You do gain quite an advantage by playing a strange list - the best play is never the popular play. Look at Luxray toolbox, Gyarados, RayBees, Luxchomp, and Toxicroak/ Scizor. The times they did the best were when thay had yet to be played heavily. Even with a popular deck, it's always been a smart decision to take out the "safe" play and put in a risky trick. Even if you don't actually play any better, playing fancy makes you feel better. :D

Darkmot
10/17/2009, 09:51 AM
This is a very good Gengar-deck - I won Batte Roads with it
Its based on locking my oppenents Poke-Powers in the first 3 turns
and stopping my oppenents Unown Gs without Relicanth.
Look at it:

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=111052

jeffrey123
10/17/2009, 10:21 AM
We'll just have to see which one will end up being the play

I still see Gechamp with techs as the top contender

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/17/2009, 03:30 PM
lol wow and why would i care if he won invite to the past 2 world
congrats for that that great but hear the thing the past is the past so that a great accomisment and stuff but that does really matter if u got an invit to worlds in the past all that really matters is what happends this year not last year or any year befor that.
and nnann this is coming from u which show me baby mario get that. and u dont.

baby mario
10/17/2009, 03:57 PM
lol wow and why would i care if he won invite to the past 2 world

I agree. That's why I explained my argument carefully.


congrats for that that great but hear the thing the past is the past so that a great accomisment and stuff but that does really matter if u got an invit to worlds in the past all that really matters is what happends this year not last year or any year befor that.
and nnann this is coming from u which show me baby mario get that. and u dont.

I won a BR the other week, if that helps restore my shattered credibility.

mewbreon
10/17/2009, 05:21 PM
idahodarkhorsejustbelieve.... your ad hominems (if you dont know what that means--which you dont-- look it up) and ridiculous spelling errors, combined with your lack of knowledge pertaining to the game in which you are acting so childish over are ...for lack of a better term... the lawlz

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:


Yeah, I will agree to that. LOL, 50 for one energy!

technically-- it does WAY more than 50 for 1 energy. read his pokebody :)

FlareonMaster
10/17/2009, 05:25 PM
I know, it is just that usually it is 50 (attack wise and Expert Belt) and yes, I know of his Pokebody and also don't forget weakness! LOL

smacktack15
10/17/2009, 10:41 PM
WHAT IS WITH 2-3 CLAYDOL!?

I hate when I see this line of pokemon. You realize it only increases your odds of opening with a Claydol in hand by about 10%? You really gave up another deck spot to increase your odds of opening with it by 10%? If you feared them getting knocked out- then you're better off playing a TSD or Pokemon Rescue, as that card can at least get back other pokemon. Why not run an extra Luxury Ball?

I see no logic in running a 2-3 Claydol. 10% better odds of opening with a card that itself depends on other cards to be used just does no warrant the extra spot. I find this a great example of F.P.S., or "Fancy Play Syndrome". A player thinks that by doing things in some sparkly, weird, different way that they actually gain an advantage merely from that fact.

I also played a Great Ball. As Chris Fulop once said, it is a "fake" 3-3 Claydol with less chances of you starting with a Baltoy. As long as my consistency is higher throughout my deck, my deck should run smoother. Plenty of people play 3-2 lines of Claydol, it is either accepted by a player or not. There isn't a wrong way to build a deck...

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/18/2009, 02:03 AM
ok i had to play around with moter gengar to c if it a better deck
and i found out it is all admit i am wrong. noone ive only scene it a few times in a kingdown deck.
noone in the masterdivion used it like that around here

nnaann
10/18/2009, 02:18 AM
lol wow and why would i care if he won invite to the past 2 world

Well, if he gets to Worlds every year chances are he'll be a good player and will be knowledgable about the Pokemon TCG. If you want to become a better Pokemon player, listen and learn from the best.

congrats for that that great but hear the thing the past is the past so that a great accomisment and stuff but that does really matter if u got an invit to worlds in the past all that really matters is what happends this year not last year or any year befor that.

That isn't relevant, we're not talking about Baby Mario's season - I'm saying that to argue his opinion ( probably without testing it ) is pretty stupid when he that good of a player.

and nnann this is coming from u which show me baby mario get that. and u dont.

What?

Replies are in red

FlareonMaster
10/18/2009, 06:39 AM
I agree with what nnaann said on that subject. LOL

So, GeChamp and Mother Gengar seem to be the most popular play out of the Gengar decks, who knows what will happen though once Gengar Lv.X comes out starting with the prerelease's next weekend.

Absol G
10/19/2009, 08:46 PM
Mother Gengar is the best choice. Nidoqueen heals, attacks well, and has a good amount of HP. Metal Gengar, ehhhhh, not that good.

FlareonMaster
10/20/2009, 06:19 AM
I agree now on Metagross not being good and either Mother Gengar or GeChamp is the way to go when it comes to Gengar.

OllieK
10/20/2009, 02:30 PM
The Gengar Lv.X makes it much easier to hit 60 to dols, uxies techs etc, then you use gengar lv.xs attack to hit 30 for each knocking them all out it one.

Kayle
10/20/2009, 02:37 PM
When you think about it though, doesn't it make more sense to knock each out one at a time, even though it costs more turns in the long run? You draw prizes sooner, they lose their draw power faster.

OllieK
10/20/2009, 02:51 PM
ROFL just read up the post. I'm not trying to be mean "idahodarkhorsejustbelieve", but I cannot understand a single thing you post man.

"and nnann this is coming from u which show me baby mario get that. and u dont." :confused:

"maybe u dont know how to play chest or something, but metagros well help u put ur oppentit into a check mate which is somthing nideoqueen cant do" so by playing "chest" I can get my open t** into a checkmate!!! I just got it....

"if ur able to lock thier supporters / trainers u can crush them with a big attack." Of course, everybody knows Gengar can lock trainers/supporters :wink:


And seriously, your argueing with a guy hus been to worlds twice????

go play with your metagross doll.

Thank you.


Anyway, I think Queen is much better that Gross. Simply because by time you get the gross out with the gar they have already unown G'd their own bench and your stuck with a 90Hp main attacker..ouch.

Queen is not overated. IMO it's one of the best cards in the format, seeing as it blocks out any form of spread, I think thats pretty amazing how one card has killed one of most popular type of decks. Also, you dont need to waste your time getting metal energies. Queen can hit a solid 40 with a single energy. Besides like Nathan said you have Bats and Cress to finish of bench, you dont need Metagross.

Olliek

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/20/2009, 03:09 PM
lol i said i was wrong bc i tested it
i tested it in a metal gengar deck deck anf the metagross is coming out befor citys

Phazon Elite
10/20/2009, 05:58 PM
To be fair, idhjb might just have a ghetto keyboard.

Maybe.

FlareonMaster
10/20/2009, 06:07 PM
^^^LOL, he might be on an iPod or something too.

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/20/2009, 06:18 PM
lol
opps
um yea mother gengar is better then metal gengar u ppl made me c that lol

Happiny13
10/20/2009, 06:21 PM
lol
opps
um yea mother gengar is better then metal gengar u ppl made me c that lol
Well, that usually doesn't happen.

FlareonMaster
10/20/2009, 06:24 PM
^^^True and LOL. I wasn't to sure on Metal Gengar at first which is why I started this thread thinking maybe he could be real good or real bad but now think Mother Gengar is the way to go.

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/20/2009, 06:34 PM
lol what nobody will admit thier wrong.
well how many ppl told me i was wrong?
i think ut going to c ppl playing metal gengar and attack with the metagros bc u can spread the damage amd set up a few ko with gengar lvx.
will i be doing that no, if i play a gengar deck at citys then it going to be mothe gengar.

Happiny13
10/20/2009, 06:38 PM
^Not here on the gym.

FlareonMaster
10/20/2009, 06:45 PM
I agree with Happiny on this one.

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/20/2009, 06:48 PM
lol
ive alway beilved that if ur wrong then admit it

Shadowwiidragon
10/21/2009, 03:56 PM
I think the best Gengar deck is GeChamp or Metal Gengar/ Mother Gengar.

prodigal_fanboy
10/21/2009, 04:05 PM
I think the best Gengar deck is GeChamp or Metal Gengar/ Mother Gengar.

I do believe you named every variant of Gengar that has top-cut since Spring BRs, save for Speedgar (which is a bad name anyway).

FlareonMaster
10/21/2009, 05:46 PM
Yes he did, LOL, I think Mother Gengar is clearly the best after this thread.

Xuii2-the-cleric
10/21/2009, 06:03 PM
straight gar killos in speed anyday mother slows it down
metagross is stupid and machamp dont make me start on him

Happiny13
10/21/2009, 06:33 PM
Straight Gengar will wear out in this format. Eventually, Gengars attacks will not do much. Nidoqueen has the power to get 2-3 prizes a game.

Xuii2-the-cleric
10/21/2009, 07:04 PM
it slow it down a bunch and a good gengar player can win with 30 damage a turn

mewbreon
10/21/2009, 07:26 PM
straight gengar is good but has almost NO late game.
you almost HAVE to win right away

FlareonMaster
10/21/2009, 07:35 PM
I agree with Mewbreon and Happiny13 on this. It is true that straight Gengar isn't the way to go. Nidoqueen isn't there just for healing and is also there for quick and powerful attacking. LOL

Xuii2-the-cleric
10/21/2009, 07:42 PM
i won first and 2nd at brs with it with 4 ssu and 1 mespirit tech

mewbreon
10/21/2009, 08:19 PM
i won first and 2nd at brs with it with 4 ssu and 1 mespirit tech

in which state, may i ask?

Xuii2-the-cleric
10/21/2009, 09:00 PM
illinois and everyone said it sucked

Shen
10/21/2009, 11:52 PM
Who's everyone? Looking at the front page of these forums there's three Gengar topics and I know several others discuss Gengar. It's too popular for "everyone" to say it sucks.

YogiBear
10/22/2009, 12:49 AM
I run GeChamp and its worked wonders for me.

FlareonMaster
10/22/2009, 06:14 AM
illinois and everyone said it sucked

Who do you mean by everyone? Straight Gengar was great with Cresselia until Mother Gengar became played followed up by Metal Gengar which seems to not be as popular.

Deoxys Cool Form
10/22/2009, 06:20 AM
Gechamp is the best. People say it's inconsistant and well... It isn't. With the right list it can really shine. And with Relicanth it's just so good. In 6 games I've had one bad game and I still took 4 prizes. Nidoqueen is cool in Gengar but it's not the best. In order best to worst ( IMO )

Gechamp
Mother Gengar
Gengar
Metal Gengar

Metal Gengar is a JOKE.

prodigal_fanboy
10/22/2009, 07:13 AM
Who's everyone? Looking at the front page of these forums there's three Gengar topics and I know several others discuss Gengar. It's too popular for "everyone" to say it sucks.

Probably all the other kids in the senior division at whatever BR he played at.

FlareonMaster
10/22/2009, 07:56 AM
Probably all the other kids in the senior division at whatever BR he played at.

Maybe so, I was wondering the same thing as Shen too. LOL

Box of Fail
10/22/2009, 03:02 PM
Gechamp is the best. People say it's inconsistant and well... It isn't. With the right list it can really shine. And with Relicanth it's just so good. In 6 games I've had one bad game and I still took 4 prizes. Nidoqueen is cool in Gengar but it's not the best. In order best to worst ( IMO )

Gechamp
Mother Gengar
Gengar
Metal Gengar

Metal Gengar is a JOKE.

Gechamp is a joke. All cheap wins, not an ounce of fair play. Take Out. Fainting Spell. IMO Fainting Spell should've never been made, it's a cheap power involving no skill that I've seen several Gengar players rely on completely. It's pitiful. Anyway, any game that Gechamp plays lasts for a very short time, or loses. All donks and heads and luck and SP matchups There isn't any skill in it whatsoever.

Shen
10/22/2009, 04:12 PM
Probably all the other kids in the senior division at whatever BR he played at.

I think this is fact, lol.

FlareonMaster
10/22/2009, 04:27 PM
LOL Shen, as for Box of Fail, yeah you are probably right in some cases and in other cases you are wrong. How many people would you say play Gengar and use him for Shadow Room and win with him all of the time in some cases? Have you faced up to Gengar before and lost? I am just saying that you aren't fully right about Gengar and in some cases you are. I would also bet Machamp has been a bother to you since you said what you said towards both of them and IMO I don't really care for GeChamp but yet a lot of people do. I think Mother Gengar is the best after this thread. LOL. You probably know what I mean. LOL

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/22/2009, 04:34 PM
Gechamp is the best. People say it's inconsistant and well... It isn't. With the right list it can really shine. And with Relicanth it's just so good. In 6 games I've had one bad game and I still took 4 prizes. Nidoqueen is cool in Gengar but it's not the best. In order best to worst ( IMO )

Gechamp
Mother Gengar
Gengar
Metal Gengar

Metal Gengar is a JOKE.

lol
imo here the best gengar deck in the format
mother gengar all of it atter need 1 engery to attack to do decent attacks and have awesome pokepower or awesome pokebodys
metal gengar(bc this deck can get set up very fast and k o pokemon very fast making all this basic pokemon feel like those carpy 30 hp pokemon im not going to name any names:)
gemachamp bc u need more then 1 threat in a deck. but this deck is cheap. lol
staight gengar is sort of a joke.
ok u play that against me all i have to do is shut down ur gengars and if u flop on ur flips which will happend ur done u need more then one threat in a deck.
straight gengar not good enough anymore.
and honestly br since they dont mean anything who honeslty play thier best deck at fall brs.
dont say to me that straight the best untell u played the rest.
and if no one in ur area doesnt think gengar is a good deck then make them play for it at citys. :thumb:

Colts8729
10/22/2009, 06:08 PM
Probably all the other kids in the senior division at whatever BR he played at.

Right ON!
17171717

Xuii2-the-cleric
10/22/2009, 06:25 PM
ya the seniors and some masters

toxicroak 96
10/22/2009, 07:56 PM
I love Gengar/Queen but I'm never lucky enough to win with it.

vanderbilt_grad
10/23/2009, 05:34 AM
Gechamp is a joke. All cheap wins, not an ounce of fair play. Take Out. Fainting Spell. IMO Fainting Spell should've never been made, it's a cheap power involving no skill that I've seen several Gengar players rely on completely. It's pitiful. Anyway, any game that Gechamp plays lasts for a very short time, or loses. All donks and heads and luck and SP matchups There isn't any skill in it whatsoever.

While the deck might be more flip based and matchup luck based than most decks that doesn't mean that skill is not a factor. I would fear a GeChamp built and run by a top tier player far more than I would fear one netdecked and run by an inxperienced player. The former will have a much better idea of how to capitalize on luck and will avoid misplays that the less experienced player will not.

Skill matters no matter what the deck is. You might not like this deck but that doesn't mean that skill has no bearing on how it functions in actual play.

idahodarkhorsejustbelieve
10/23/2009, 05:44 AM
While the deck might be more flip based and matchup luck based than most decks that doesn't mean that skill is not a factor. I would fear a GeChamp built and run by a top tier player far more than I would fear one netdecked and run by an inxperienced player. The former will have a much better idea of how to capitalize on luck and will avoid misplays that the less experienced player will not.

Skill matters no matter what the deck is. You might not like this deck but that doesn't mean that skill has no bearing on how it functions in actual play.

ur right
the best players dont make mistake or misplays.

FlareonMaster
10/23/2009, 06:15 AM
While the deck might be more flip based and matchup luck based than most decks that doesn't mean that skill is not a factor. I would fear a GeChamp built and run by a top tier player far more than I would fear one netdecked and run by an inxperienced player. The former will have a much better idea of how to capitalize on luck and will avoid misplays that the less experienced player will not.

Skill matters no matter what the deck is. You might not like this deck but that doesn't mean that skill has no bearing on how it functions in actual play.

I agree and basically said the same thing but a little different. LOL

mewbreon
10/23/2009, 08:08 AM
sorry a little off topic---do most gechamp builds run 3-2-3 gengar 3-2-3-1 machamp ?

prodigal_fanboy
10/23/2009, 08:31 AM
sorry a little off topic---do most gechamp builds run 3-2-3 gengar 3-2-3-1 machamp ?

You can switch it up however you like. It depends on the meta as to what ratio you run.

I liked 4-2-3 Gengar (Pitch dark!) with 2-1-2-1 Machamp.

Austino
10/23/2009, 08:59 AM
I don't see why people are bashing metagross when it is a decent card. I definitely wouldn't recommend anything higher than a 1-0-1 line, but it's so amazing late game. The other thing is that GeQueen, Mother Gengar, Queengar, whatever you call it can have techs...whether it's relicanth/ditto/pachirisu/etc.

I personally run 4-3-4 Gengar, 2-1-2 Queen, 1-0-1 Gross. I start out with the typical MG setup and mid-late game I drop the metagross for KO's on Azelfs, Bats, Dol, and 50HP basics they may drop. Metagross also makes it REALLY easy for Nidoqueen to score KO's. It really depends on the t/s/s line that determines consistency. In decks like this, heavy BTS line and pokeradar are like PB&J....so goood.

It's 16-1 with the only loss being to dialga/garchomp/lux since Benched Dialga kills half the deck and gar c prevents bench snipe KO's on it.

FlareonMaster
10/23/2009, 10:15 AM
I don't see why people are bashing metagross when it is a decent card. I definitely wouldn't recommend anything higher than a 1-0-1 line, but it's so amazing late game. The other thing is that GeQueen, Mother Gengar, Queengar, whatever you call it can have techs...whether it's relicanth/ditto/pachirisu/etc.

I personally run 4-3-4 Gengar, 2-1-2 Queen, 1-0-1 Gross. I start out with the typical MG setup and mid-late game I drop the metagross for KO's on Azelfs, Bats, Dol, and 50HP basics they may drop. Metagross also makes it REALLY easy for Nidoqueen to score KO's. It really depends on the t/s/s line that determines consistency. In decks like this, heavy BTS line and pokeradar are like PB&J....so goood.

It's 16-1 with the only loss being to dialga/garchomp/lux since Benched Dialga kills half the deck and gar c prevents bench snipe KO's on it.

I was thinking the same at first but am not so sure now as it seems everyone loves GeChamp and Mother Gengar. Maybe 4-2-3-1 Gengar, 2-1-1 Nidoqueen and 1-0-1 Metagross is very decent? LOL

mewbreon
10/23/2009, 12:21 PM
hmm, ive been doing MAD testing with gen/queen and gen/gross and straight gengar, but havent done much in terms of gechamp

does anyone has a quick-list of gechamp that i can check out?

FlareonMaster
10/23/2009, 12:43 PM
You could search it, you might be able to find a list that suits you best mewbreon. I don't know of one myself really except for the list I was thinking of trying which also failed. LOL

LegendaryLugia
11/03/2009, 09:11 AM
I agree with Austino/FM - Metagross is killer late game. I think straight Metal Gengar is definetly a less powerful build than some of the others. GeChamp is an incredibly difficult deck to build very well because you are very tight for deck space. I've found it's nice with either 1-0-1 Metagross or 1-1 Luxray GL Lv.X for cheap KOs late game. Straight Gengar with just SF Gengars is not as powerful as it once was, but now we have a new build of Gengar with the Level X to control the field and a teched AA "Curse" Gengar to 1HKO Pixies without Crobats. It's shaping up to be a great deck. Duskgar could see a popularity boost with Ectoplasm and Gengar Lv.X's attack working in sync for massive spread. Mother Gengar is still incredibly viable with 1-0-1 Metagross and a Gengar Lv.X to deal with Dialga G Lv. X. That's just my general overview.

Darkmot
11/04/2009, 07:40 AM
why not run mother with metal - i mean running both of them as a 1-1 line
- i did that at battle roads and won it, but i played mother and dusknoir

Deoxys Cool Form
11/04/2009, 08:20 AM
lol
imo here the best gengar deck in the format
mother gengar all of it atter need 1 engery to attack to do decent attacks and have awesome pokepower or awesome pokebodys
metal gengar(bc this deck can get set up very fast and k o pokemon very fast making all this basic pokemon feel like those carpy 30 hp pokemon im not going to name any names:)
gemachamp bc u need more then 1 threat in a deck. but this deck is cheap. lol
staight gengar is sort of a joke.
ok u play that against me all i have to do is shut down ur gengars and if u flop on ur flips which will happend ur done u need more then one threat in a deck.
straight gengar not good enough anymore.
and honestly br since they dont mean anything who honeslty play thier best deck at fall brs.
dont say to me that straight the best untell u played the rest.
and if no one in ur area doesnt think gengar is a good deck then make them play for it at citys. :thumb:

Ok so firstly you say 'Nidoqueen' because it does decent attacks for one energy. Machamp does the same but has an effect :lol:

Then you say Metal Gengar because it can KO basics quick...:lol:

Gechamp is not Cheap. Does it play rubbish like Handy 910's and Drawer's? No. It's purely for SP. You play 2 Machop so you don't really aim for the 'Donk' now do you? How is straight Gengar a joke? It doesn't have techs of course but then it sets up faster.

I know you need more than one threat in a deck. Thats why I play Machamp. Epic fail :lol:

Of course Gengar/Queen beats Gechamp. But there more than two decks ya know :lol:

How is straight Gengar not good any more?

I have no idea what 'and honestly br since they dont mean anything who honeslty play thier best deck at fall brs.' Means.

I didn't say staright was the best. I said Mother Gengar was better. But overall I think Gechamp is the best. I have tested every Gengar deck :lol: And for the record I have got 2nd at a states with Gengar and 2nd at Nats. I think I know how to play Gengar by now. How well have you done with Gengar...?

:wink:Simples:wink:

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:


Gechamp is a joke. All cheap wins, not an ounce of fair play. Take Out. Fainting Spell. IMO Fainting Spell should've never been made, it's a cheap power involving no skill that I've seen several Gengar players rely on completely. It's pitiful. Anyway, any game that Gechamp plays lasts for a very short time, or loses. All donks and heads and luck and SP matchups There isn't any skill in it whatsoever.

If there is 'no skill' in Gechamp how come it WON Japan Nationals. Relicanth makes it broken. And how is it cheap? A 2-1-2-1 Machamp line with 3 fighting isn't exactly going to donk some one, is it? It happens like every 4-5 games. If that. Oh believe me my friend Gengar is a very skillful deck to play. Chuck Machamp in and you have ALOT of options. Well if it's a 'Luck sack deck' how come in '7 games now' I havn't donked and have hit 6/13 flips on Fainting Spell? And thats playing Luxray/Garchomp, Blaziken deck, Torterror Sceptile, Gengar/Queen and Kingdra. ALOT of different decks there. And I'm 6-1 only losing to Kingdra.

mewbreon
11/04/2009, 12:50 PM
If there is 'no skill' in Gechamp how come it WON Japan Nationals. Relicanth makes it broken. And how is it cheap? A 2-1-2-1 Machamp line with 3 fighting isn't exactly going to donk some one, is it? It happens like every 4-5 games. If that. Oh believe me my friend Gengar is a very skillful deck to play. Chuck Machamp in and you have ALOT of options. Well if it's a 'Luck sack deck' how come in '7 games now' I havn't donked and have hit 6/13 flips on Fainting Spell? And thats playing Luxray/Garchomp, Blaziken deck, Torterror Sceptile, Gengar/Queen and Kingdra. ALOT of different decks there. And I'm 6-1 only losing to Kingdra.

very true friend.
does your gechamp run SSU?? just curious

Yoshi-
11/04/2009, 12:54 PM
A deck that relies on quick setup, has a good chance of donking and relies on fainting spell and hurricane punch.
No luck at all :lol:

Deoxys Cool Form
11/04/2009, 01:20 PM
Mewbreon

No it doesn't. Sounds like a cool idea though.

Yoshi-

Gechamp is 'Helped' by all of those but thats not how the deck focuses, to win. I'll say this once more you play a 2-1-2-1 Machamp line. My list plays 3 fight energy. You barely donk. Don't all decks rely on 'Some' speed anyways. A deck without speed is just bad. You 'Don't' rely on Fainting Spell lol If you do you must be playing a pretty bad player/list. Lets be honest Gechamp was built for SP mainly. But now I think it has the ability to get better. JMO. And the main focus of Gechamp is to make them waste thier 1-2 Unown G's when they need 3-4 to stop all the effects in the deck. So you shouldn't be playing it for speed as instead you slow them down which is just as good. And with Relicanth if they get all thier Unown G's in the right places... 60-90 to anything? Yes please.

Yoshi-
11/04/2009, 01:24 PM
I spend an entire day testing my Healgon vs Gechamp before worlds. Every single game came down to "do I flip 3 heads with champ X to ohko flygon x or not". That was all that mattered.

Deoxys Cool Form
11/04/2009, 01:39 PM
Well I've tested against alot of decks and I'll be honest, I have had that sometimes. But you gotta remember Gechamp 'Was' built for SP. So it's most horrible match up ( Or one of them ) 'Is' actually Flygon. Try testing it against other decks. And when I've had that problem ( When I don't get the... Um... 3 heads lets say ) It 'tends' to be a bad match up. JMO but Flygon just own Gechamp in the face so that isn't suprising ( Prosuming they play 2 Unown G which they 'Should' ) Honestly though try it against many decks. It won't be the same. It may be slightly lucky but many decks have luck. The only reason you 'Should' be hoping for heads is when your playing a next to impossible match up. JMO.

cmertson
11/04/2009, 01:40 PM
GeChamp kicks butt, metal gengar is poopy

Deoxys Cool Form
11/04/2009, 01:42 PM
GeChamp kicks butt, metal gengar is poopy

Agreed. Lol I gotta stop sticking up for this deck but it's good you can't deny that.

Yoshi-
11/04/2009, 01:50 PM
Well I've tested against alot of decks and I'll be honest, I have had that sometimes. But you gotta remember Gechamp 'Was' built for SP. So it's most horrible match up ( Or one of them ) 'Is' actually Flygon. Try testing it against other decks. And when I've had that problem ( When I don't get the... Um... 3 heads lets say ) It 'tends' to be a bad match up. JMO but Flygon just own Gechamp in the face so that isn't suprising ( Prosuming they play 2 Unown G which they 'Should' ) Honestly though try it against many decks. It won't be the same. It may be slightly lucky but many decks have luck. The only reason you 'Should' be hoping for heads is when your playing a next to impossible match up. JMO.

Flygon isnt that good either, it was designed to beat sp / abuse lock / connect different techs. Flygon itself is acually pretty bad against anything that doesnt rely on Lv.X. I mean, 60+ for 3 ?

And it GeChamp cant beat Flygon it should have no business with anything but SP which means it will rely on flipps.

Deoxys Cool Form
11/04/2009, 02:07 PM
Flygon isnt that good either, it was designed to beat sp / abuse lock / connect different techs. Flygon itself is acually pretty bad against anything that doesnt rely on Lv.X. I mean, 60+ for 3 ?

And it GeChamp cant beat Flygon it should have no business with anything but SP which means it will rely on flipps.

Flygon not good against other decks? If it was built for SP why did they invent the idea of FlyChamp? Also there are many Flygon varients. Flytrap doesn't exactly lose to every other deck...? Weavile/Noir/Gardevoir...? Same thing there. Flygon on it's own is pretty bad compared to other varients. Ok Japan Nats had alot of SP but it did have other decks. Are you saying he lucksacked the win? Simples.

mewbreon
11/04/2009, 03:47 PM
gechamp IS amazing, and imo the best gengar deck. people who dis on it generally sound intelligent-- as it won japan nats.

however, in a semi-mirror, gengar/queen will almost always beat gechamp. and i think gengar/queen will be much more popular, meaning gechamp probably wont get very far :(

thats my opinoin on that matter.

Deoxys Cool Form
11/05/2009, 12:25 AM
gechamp IS amazing, and imo the best gengar deck. people who dis on it generally sound intelligent-- as it won japan nats.

however, in a semi-mirror, gengar/queen will almost always beat gechamp. and i think gengar/queen will be much more popular, meaning gechamp probably wont get very far :(

thats my opinoin on that matter.

100% Agree on that. Nidoqueen IS the most popular build. Meaning it will see more play. I don't think Gechamp will do that well either. Gechamp is quite unpopular. I wish it was though.

LegendaryLugia
11/05/2009, 03:54 AM
^ I agree. I think GeChamp is the strongest build by far if it is built right, but so few people can get the right list. Speaking from experience. And Nidoqueen is popular, but I think we'll see a lot of more inexperienced players playing straight Gengar.

YOU FORGOT TO SAY SIMPLES.

Deoxys Cool Form
11/05/2009, 04:26 AM
^ I agree. I think GeChamp is the strongest build by far if it is built right, but so few people can get the right list. Speaking from experience. And Nidoqueen is popular, but I think we'll see a lot of more inexperienced players playing straight Gengar.

YOU FORGOT TO SAY SIMPLES.

Lol oh yeah... Simples:thumb:

silverst31n
11/05/2009, 11:00 AM
mother gengar is the best. at least now it is again.

Deoxys Cool Form
11/05/2009, 11:17 AM
mother gengar is the best. at least now it is again.

Then explain why....