Garchomp SV vs Flygon RR

[AzNightmare]

I currently have a Garchomp SV deck, but I'm thinking what are the differences in terms of being a higher tier card?

Is Garchomp SV just not good enough? Because I know of many Flygon archtype decks out there.
With DCE coming back, I figured Garchomp's pretty good. And so many Pokemon have low energy attacks.... or some people play Garchomp as a tank with it's first attack...

So what do you guys think??

[Dennis Hawk]

Garchomp versus Flygon sounds like a pretty even matchup, with Garchomp having a slight edge. However, there's a difference on techability in these decks.

Garchomp's first attack is far more used than Flygon's first attack, making DCE really function. 60 (with Belt) and the protection of 20 lets Garchomp survive a fully charged Flygon's Power Swing with Expert Belt, and Flygon is a 2HKO for Chomp. Additionally, Garchomp's body is very useful in matchups like Flygon or other high-energy count attacker (although if they force you to recycle certain special energies, it can be played around or even against you).

If both get into consistent swarming phase of the game with even prizes, Garchomp should be able to draw 3 prizes against 2 and go win the game in mathematical perspective.

However, there are techs that may swing the matchup one way or another. Nidoqueen is techable for both decks obviously, but Palkia Lv.X, a thrump card tech in Flygon, allows Flygon to go around Guard Claw and OHKO Garchomps. Garchomp will be having hard time using the Lv.X techs because of Extreme Attack, and Garchomp will be hesitant on utilizing Lv.X in this matchup. The possibility of Flytrap is also something to consider, making you think twice before setupping Claydols.

Dusknoir, on the other hand, is a huge tech for Garchomp player and will significantly boost the Flygon matchup. Garchomp has no need for big bench like Flygon and Dusknoir will FEAST with Flygon's huge benchs, sending undamaged and charged Flygons back to where they belong - deck. Losing the energy attachment to keep active powered up will make Dusknoir even more annoying, putting Flygon's damage output to 50 (DCE for 40 + 30 - 20) against Chomps in the long run.

Machamp isn't really hindering the matchup for Garchomp, unless they surprise you with Lv.X's Expert Belted Revenge.

All in all, Dusknoir is your tech if you are concerned about the Flygon matchup.

[AzNightmare]

Thanks for the info.

I don't hear much talk about Garchomp so I was thinking it was a bad line.
I'm currently using a Nidoqueen tech, but I could try out Dusknoir... how useful is Dusknoir generally
when vs other decks besides Flygon?

[LegendaryLugia]

Personally I think Garchomp is a great deck. Deciding on playing Nidoqueen or Dusknoir is a playstyle choice. Dusknoir is more aggresive - Dark Palm is a great offensive weapon against decks like Flygon, Dialga etc. Nidoqueen is more defensive, adding healing to your 1st attack and giving you a decent back-up attacker. It's a really tough decision to make and I would probably need to test more with Garchomp before I can answer comfortably.

[Croatian_Nidoking]

What I'd like to know is what the best anti-Garchomp Lv. X tech for a typical Flygon deck. That (and Gyarados SF) always give me fits. (Oddly enough, I can manage against Gengar.) Is it Ditto, Ambipom G, or something else?

- Croatian_Nidoking

[Yoshi-]

Whoever runs Exploud in that Matchup probably wins. Otherwise Chomp should have an advantage, its the better attacker, its more bulky, it can restore...

[PMysterious]

The Flygon Does 60x2 to Garchomp C, so I say that Flygon has the upper hand, unless you're talking about the non-SP version.

[Naki Feralkin]

^ They're talking about the non SP version. That specific version happens to have 130 HP's.

Now, initially, Flygon can one shot it with 4-5 Evolutions on its field, however, the problem therein lies in the fact that Garchomp has a pretty solid attack, Guard Claw, that can do about 70 HP's of damage to flygon (weakness), for only two energies, and reduces damage done to him by 20. This effectively lowers the damage Flygon can do to Garchomp (40+50+30=120! CURSE YOU GUARD CLAW!), in which all Garchomp has to do is turn tail and run to the bench while a Queen refreshes him and a new Garchomp comes out.

I've always been of the opinion that Garchomp wins this game with no Explouds being involved. The issue at hand is the current format likes Flygon a lot better due to its synergy with other good pokemon. (I've also beaten Flygon when it had Exploud teched, but it was not easy by any means.)

[Fire Master]

Don´t forget that if we consider DCE, Garchomp has an even higher advantage. Say Flygon attacks Garchomp and fails to KO, then you return DCE to their hand leaving it with one energy. You send another Garchomp and Speed Impact for 130 (with Weakness). If the Flygon players have Exploud, E-Belt solves the problem (and acts like a Guard Claw if the opponent has another Flygon ready to attack). IMO, more high energy cost attacker being played thanks to DCE will make Garchomp better, as it will be able to hit them for 100 (120 w/ E-Belt).

[Naki Feralkin]

^ I'm certainly hoping DCE gives me an incentive to bring back Landshark. I'll be testing with it once the set releases.

[Ignatious]

I would honestly run Garchomp over Flygon right now. Flygon needs a ton of evolutions in play to do massive damage, which is nearly impossible against almost any SP deck worth their salt. Furthermore, A Chomp deck can level up an energyless Chomp and restore a teched pokemon (Gallade/Gardevoir/Dusknoir(night spin)) and SSU it after it takes a hit. Chomp can also tech basics such as Mewtwo LvX and Blaziken SP LvX, without cutting your damage output.

[Rogue Archetype]

^ They're talking about the non SP version. That specific version happens to have 130 HP's.

Now, initially, Flygon can one shot it with 4-5 Evolutions on its field, however, the problem therein lies in the fact that Garchomp has a pretty solid attack, Guard Claw, that can do about 70 HP's of damage to flygon (weakness), for only two energies, and reduces damage done to him by 20. This effectively lowers the damage Flygon can do to Garchomp (40+50+30=120! CURSE YOU GUARD CLAW!), in which all Garchomp has to do is turn tail and run to the bench while a Queen refreshes him and a new Garchomp comes out.

I've always been of the opinion that Garchomp wins this game with no Explouds being involved. The issue at hand is the current format likes Flygon a lot better due to its synergy with other good pokemon. (I've also beaten Flygon when it had Exploud teched, but it was not easy by any means.)

Don´t forget that if we consider DCE, Garchomp has an even higher advantage. Say Flygon attacks Garchomp and fails to KO, then you return DCE to their hand leaving it with one energy. You send another Garchomp and Speed Impact for 130 (with Weakness). If the Flygon players have Exploud, E-Belt solves the problem (and acts like a Guard Claw if the opponent has another Flygon ready to attack). IMO, more high energy cost attacker being played thanks to DCE will make Garchomp better, as it will be able to hit them for 100 (120 w/ E-Belt).

These two posts together are VERY informative.
Thank you both for taking the time to explain.

2 Guru Points to each.

[Lance_Wilson]

Garchomp SV has been severely underrated in this format. Between Expert Belt and now Double Colorless, it's time to shine is soon coming. Being able to Turn 1 Guard Claw for 40-60 and preventing 20, followed by a Turn 2 Speed Impact for 100-140 is quite powerful. It's body is also very punishing. Not only do you negate their Energy drop for the turn but you're also throwing that card back to their hand making their Set Ups and Cosmic Powers a little less effective.

[Naki Feralkin]

^ I'm seriously beginning to consider reviving the old boy. He got me a few top cuts and a win back during Battle Roads.

Chomp can also tech basics such as Mewtwo LvX and Blaziken SP LvX, without cutting your damage output

Mewtwo made a ridiculous difference the instant he got teched into the deck. I went from having a rocky time against an SP toolbox losing to it in Top 2 to beating it 2-3 times at the next BR and winning me said event.

If I WERE to play it right now, I'd seriously consider a Weavile tech to make the Gengar matchup a little less agonizing. (Then you can legitimately Belt Claw away Spiritombs..) and I'd keep the Nidoqueen. Of course, fitting all of this into a deck that also requires Nidoqueen is gonna be fun, indeed. Though I'll be honest, I'd much rather play against the Cursegar variant with this than the old one (now that LX is present)

I'd still want Mewtwo though, since its not like SP is going to die anytime soon.

[AzNightmare]

Wow this is good news for me then.
Because I was wondering was Garchomp underrated or just not a good line to run.

I've been testing my Garchomp with DCE's and Expert Belts and they seem to do well.
But since DCE is not here yet... I haven't yet to battle other people with my deck.