Donphan counter's

[Ghost spread]

Ok so I'm thinking of running donphan with nidoqueen for states. I got 2 at the PR and swept 2 out of 3 of my battles with it (There was a magic preralease right after so we had to hurry up). And i'm wondering what to look out for and what would be good to put in my deck to counter the counters. Any help is greatly apreciated. I know some people say its a bad deck. I don't care I'm going to run it becuase it looks good. I might not win but it dosen't hurt to try.:thumb:

[PkB_]

Your counters really are Gyra kingdra Gatr and palkia G. a mime would take car of the 1st too. possibly a Jumpluff tech for the 3rd and possibly mewtwo for the fourth? Those are the first ideas that come off my head.

[Kayle]

Gyarados screws you if you can't donk/outrun them. You just won't be able to KO them at all. Kingdra is a very similar story. So Mr. Mime doesn't help you a whole lot.

By contrast, 'Gatr and Palkia are slow enough that they shouldn't be considered counters.

[Ghost spread]

A mime is possible and mabey a Mewtwo. Defenitly not a jumpluff. Mabey an exploud for them all?

[Zathaz]

eewww stage two techs in a stage one deck, it just slows you down sooooo much. I would go porygon z g and poketurn and bubble coat...

[Ghost spread]

Mabey but that would only last for so long. Luxary in a donphan deck lol now THAT would be funny. But I don't think luxary would work.

[Ignatious]

Mabey but that would only last for so long. Luxary in a donphan deck lol now THAT would be funny. But I don't think luxary would work.

I run Luxray in mine. It is BY FAR the best answer to the above decks.

[Ghost spread]

Wow I accully thout it wouldn't work. To bad I don't have any luxary's...

[Cetra]

My first question is who the heck are you because I find it hard to comprehend that somewhere other than Phoenix games in WA on sunday was rushed because of a magic prerelease.

As for Donphan, I personally think it'll flop soon when people figure out counters for it. Honestly the body is the only real thing it has going for it, but that IS a pretty nice body when you think about how you could swarm Phans and heal with Queen.

Be careful of Arceus Water Type. Fast wave eats you alive if it's belted because the body gets nuked and you're 2x weak. Just sayin...people at my league are looking at Dewgong...I'm going for a quick and practical route with AR5.

Cuonters? Luxray Gl because I can assume half your counters will be weak to water. Luxray also helps you pick and choose your kills giving you the ability to disrupt.

[Kayle]

I run Luxray in mine. It is BY FAR the best answer to the above decks.

Do you use it to KO them, or just to nab cheap prizes?

[Ignatious]

The only trouble I'm having with Donphan is the 10 damage to the bench. Blissey is just bad, requiring set up, only working once, can be sprayed, provides no attacking possibilities, adds a bad start, and is bait on the bench. Manectric has only a few of those weaknesses, but he has to be played BEFORE damage is put on your pokemon, or else it is too late, and in a list without Claydol (mine) it doesn't serve much purpose other than avoiding your own damage.

I was considering running Snowpoint Temple, to balance it out, considering I run a lot of SPs with Donphan, but that is unreliable against SPs themselves. I've also considered Unown V, to heal 20 from all of your pokemon, but I can't afford to end a turn without dealing damage with the deck.

That's the real question, imo.

@ Kayle: Both. I run Lucario GL as well. Against Kingdra and Feraligatr, Luxray mainly pulls up Claydols for KOs, rather than attacking the main threat. However, against Gyarados, Luxray is your deck's ONLY attacker with the Lucario GL in play. You MUST be able to OHKO Gyarados each turn, or you'll end up losing the game. Palkia is still quite a touch match up, simply because they lock your Bright Looks, and stall with Garchomp. I haven't got a chance test this match up yet to be honest.

[Cetra]

Do you use it to KO them, or just to nab cheap prizes?

You can do both depending on the circumstance. A simple Lucario GL tech could even help that.

To the above, I hate t say it but it sounds like you're setting yourself up to fail by trying to be too out of the box. I just can't picture why yu wouldn't try it with a nidoqueen line (which can be used as more than just a tech ya know). Queen AND Luxray Gl seem like they'd pair off well enough to make a decent deck.

[Ghost spread]

My first question is who the heck are you because I find it hard to comprehend that somewhere other than Phoenix games in WA on sunday was rushed because of a magic prerelease.

I'm matthew.O in the senior division. Yes I did go to the preralease (i'm the guy who won the blissy prime for the doorprize lol) I've been to the leauge... 3 times but don't really go that often :( (I think the last time I went was... Oct 09)

[Cetra]

I'm matthew.O in the senior division. Yes I did go to the preralease (i'm the guy who won the blissy prime from the doorprize lol) I've been to the leauge... 3 times but don't really go that often :( (I think the last time I went was... Oct 09)

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I'm matthew.O in the senior division. Yes I did go to the preralease (i'm the guy who won the blissy prime from the doorprize lol) I've been to the leauge... 3 times but don't really go that often :( (I think the last time I went was... Oct 09)

Just checking, because I go there for league.

But all the same, in seniors you'll pry be fine just playing Donphan with Queen. Masters is where it would get a little complicated.

[Kayle]

The only trouble I'm having with Donphan is the 10 damage to the bench. Blissey is just bad, requiring set up, only working once, can be sprayed, provides no attacking possibilities, adds a bad start, and is bait on the bench. Manectric has only a few of those weaknesses, but he has to be played BEFORE damage is put on your pokemon, or else it is too late, and in a list without Claydol (mine) it doesn't serve much purpose other than avoiding your own damage.

I was considering running Snowpoint Temple, to balance it out, considering I run a lot of SPs with Donphan, but that is unreliable against SPs themselves. I've also considered Unown V, to heal 20 from all of your pokemon, but I can't afford to end a turn without dealing damage with the deck.

That's the real question, imo.

You only ever need to heal w/ Blissey, like, three or four times in any given game at most; 4 SSU and 2-2 Blissey has worked for me in that case, so its working once isn't a big deal. I never have issues with bad starts either, primarily because I end up Warping/SSUing to get Phanpy active 80% of the time.

If Blissey just doesn't cut it for you (due to sprays and such), Nidoqueen is technically an option.

[Ghost spread]

Just checking, because I go there for league.

But all the same, in seniors you'll pry be fine just playing Donphan with Queen. Masters is where it would get a little complicated.

I think I might go to the league next week but probly not. Queen and Donphan souds like it could work. Should I still use Luxary in it or will it be fine without it?

[baby mario]

Lopunny AR anyone?

[Cetra]

I think I might go to the league next week but probly not. Queen and Donphan souds like it could work. Should I still use Luxary in it or will it be fine without it?

Personally I'm an elephant hater. I think the deck is way to inconsistent and donk biased to play somewhere like States atm, but if I were to play it, Luxray would pry be my first choice to pair with it for teh disruption factor. You could try DP Dusknoir for Dark Palm, but that doesn't really help you much, and it's just another Stage 2 you hafta worry about.

Now if you're open to the idea, Donphan with Flygon as a 3-3 line does pretty well. It's basically Flychamp in a sense, save the fact that your secondary (I.e. Donphan in this case) does something a little different.

[Ignatious]

You only ever need to heal w/ Blissey, like, three or four times in any given game at most; 4 SSU and 2-2 Blissey has worked for me in that case, so its working once isn't a big deal. I never have issues with bad starts either, primarily because I end up Warping/SSUing to get Phanpy active 80% of the time.

If Blissey just doesn't cut it for you (due to sprays and such), Nidoqueen is technically an option.

But I don't like stage twos. Like I said, my list doesn't run Claydol. A stage two would ruin the whole feel of the deck. I guess I'm just very picky.

Lopunny AR anyone?

It has to be active for the body to work...
EDIT: whoops, mixed up the Lopunny's. Lol, let me just check the attack on that thing...

[Ghost spread]

Lopunny AR anyone?

Discard, spry (probly not). I would perfer nidoqueen over lopunny.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Personally I'm an elephant hater. I think the deck is way to inconsistent and donk biased to play somewhere like States atm, but if I were to play it, Luxray would pry be my first choice to pair with it for teh disruption factor. You could try DP Dusknoir for Dark Palm, but that doesn't really help you much, and it's just another Stage 2 you hafta worry about.

Now if you're open to the idea, Donphan with Flygon as a 3-3 line does pretty well. It's basically Flychamp in a sense, save the fact that your secondary (I.e. Donphan in this case) does something a little different.

I'm not a big flygon fan but mabey if it's teched in as a free retreat.

[Cetra]

But I don't like stage twos. Like I said, my list doesn't run Claydol. A stage two would ruin the whole feel of the deck. I guess I'm just very picky.



It has to be active for the body to work...

Claydols only a stage 1...? Like...Donphan?

Also, he's talking about the NEW Lopunny, with the power that discard energy t heal 10 from everything. Too bad you'll pry be running low energy in Donphan which would make this method counter productive. Plus, queen heals more in the long run.

To the above. I'm not really a flygon fan either, but i give it major props for its rediculous versatility. I've debated using it as a 1-1 tech or something.

Another card that came yto my mind if you can't get luxray would be restructure Palkia Lv x

[baby mario]

It has to be active for the body to work...

Nah, you're thinking of the LA Lopunny. The AR one works on the Bench.

Discard, spry (probly not). I would perfer nidoqueen over lopunny.

I'm just not a fan of Stage 2 techs in a Stage 1 deck. You compromise speed and consistency, you have to run (unsearchable) Candies, or burn resources trying to get a whole evo line out with BTS.

[Cetra]

Nah, you're thinking of the LA Lopunny. The AR one works on the Bench.



I'm just not a fan of Stage 2 techs in a Stage 1 deck. You compromise speed and consistency, you have to run (unsearchable) Candies, or burn resources trying to get a whole evo line out with BTS.

Candies in a stage 1 deck can often be helpful when run in sets of like 2-3 (2 preffered). It helps for getting that quick evolution without having to get out a bts

[Ignatious]

Claydols only a stage 1...? Like...Donphan?

Also, he's talking about the NEW Lopunny, with the power that discard energy t heal 10 from everything. Too bad you'll pry be running low energy in Donphan which would make this method counter productive. Plus, queen heals more in the long run.

I was referring to Queen.

I guess I edited my post a second too late, but I did realize my error. Regardless, I checked the card and its attack is horrid. Your discard also MUST be an energy, essentially your deck needs two energy a turn with that guy, and in a deck with a MAX of 12 energy, I doubt that will happen.

[ryanvergel]

hey ghost spread, mind correcting the spelling in the thread title? it irks me a lot seeing butchered spelling every time im in this subforum.

thhaaaaannnnnnnnkkkssssssssss.

[Ghost spread]

hey ghost spread, mind correcting the spelling in the thread title? it irks me a lot seeing butchered spelling every time im in this subforum.

thhaaaaannnnnnnnkkkssssssssss.

How would you like me to say it then. Lol this was the only title I could think of.:lol:

[ryanvergel]

How would you like me to say it then. Lol this was the only title I could think of.:lol:

thanks!

seriously though, how many people willplay donphan counters?

if they play gyarados, you will lose. if they play palkia G X, you will lose. if they play kingdra you will lose. if they play quagsire GL and 1-2 expert belts, you will likely lose.

all of the above are the case no matter what. double weak to water is just too dramatic. even a lightning tech like manectric (weak up front attacker, especially vs king and gyarados) or luxray (easy to KO back- 110hp is usually within 1-2 KO range- difficult to use as a tech, and even then it likely wont be enough on its own to completely counter a deck without more devotion than donphan can likely allow).

so, there isnt a point to running a counter counter. theres nothing youre going to do vs a good water deck, and those are what really mess up donphan.

jumpluff? well, tech a dusknoir.

[Ghost spread]

thanks!

seriously though, how many people willplay donphan counters?

if they play gyarados, you will lose. if they play palkia G X, you will lose. if they play kingdra you will lose. if they play quagsire GL and 1-2 expert belts, you will likely lose.

all of the above are the case no matter what. double weak to water is just too dramatic. even a lightning tech like manectric (weak up front attacker, especially vs king and gyarados) or luxray (easy to KO back- 110hp is usually within 1-2 KO range- difficult to use as a tech, and even then it likely wont be enough on its own to completely counter a deck without more devotion than donphan can likely allow).

so, there isnt a point to running a counter counter. theres nothing youre going to do vs a good water deck, and those are what really mess up donphan.

jumpluff? well, tech a dusknoir.

You MIGHT lost, it's not an auto loss. If you can get set up quickly then you have a better chance of winning. But the odds are still against you.

[ryanvergel]

You MIGHT lost, it's not an auto loss. If you can get set up quickly then you have a better chance of winning. But the odds are still against you.


the other decks are pretty much just as fast. kingdra, palkia, gyarados, all pretty fast. gyarados's resistance means it doesnt even need a fast set up.

its pretty unfavorable, hence my saying you will lose anyways, with or without that tech.

[Slowbro8]

With all the water running around at states, Donphan just isn't going to be viable.

[Ghost spread]

Water>Donphan>Amphy>water. Somewhere different SP decks fit into that.

[DIZZtheWHIZZ]

If you're in the Senior Division, then you really shouldn't be worrying about any of those decks (Kingdra, Palkia G, Gyrados). From what I've seen, they aren't very popular deck in that division, but that COULD change. Also, you should consider running Manectric. It protects your bench (besides itself), and it's a good secondary attacker. And that Lopunny idea is not bad at all either.

[Ghost spread]

Hmm... I'm going to test this deck AND a palkia G deck with my own secret tech. You guys can find it out for yourselfs. (it's probly bad anyway lol)

[ryanvergel]

Hmm... I'm going to test this deck AND a palkia G deck with my own secret tech... witch I will not share. You guys can find it out for yourselfs. (it's probly bad anyway lol)

just letting you know, people generally find it very rude and unnecessary to post that you are going to test certain cards if you are only going to keep them a secret. why bother even mentioning it? its obviously just spam and an inflammatory remark.

seriously, it doesnt make you look any better or cooler. just drop it. everyone tests out ideas and try to keep it secretive- you dont have to consistently express that as it comes off as overbearing and rude.

[Happiny13]

Manectric is a great tech against SP decks. It stops garchomp and palkia from sniping.

[Ghost spread]

just letting you know, people generally find it very rude and unnecessary to post that you are going to test certain cards if you are only going to keep them a secret. why bother even mentioning it? its obviously just spam and an inflammatory remark.

seriously, it doesnt make you look any better or cooler. just drop it. everyone tests out ideas and try to keep it secretive- you dont have to consistently express that as it comes off as overbearing and rude.

1. Spaming is when you say it repetidly (wich I haven't)
2. I just don't want people asking "What is it?" "oh is it good?"
3. I'm sorry you feel that way. I didn't meen it that way so sorry if it offended you.

[SLOW DECK]

BTW, Gatr is weak to Grass, not Electric Luxray fans.

[Happiny13]

Hmm... I'm going to test this deck AND a palkia G deck with my own secret tech. You guys can find it out for yourselfs. (it's probly bad anyway lol)

I don't find anything wrong with this post. He started on topic and ended with sarcasm. It's not any different than what anybody else does.

[Ghost spread]

BTW, Gatr is weak to Grass, not Electric Luxray fans.

Ugh I always forget that... Donphan will always have a bad matchup against gatr unless donphan get's set up super fast. Oh well no decks perfect :/.

[Meesie6x6]

yes, but donphan is ultimate non-perfect

[ryanvergel]

I don't find anything wrong with this post. He started on topic and ended with sarcasm. It's not any different than what anybody else does.

I've scratched all these decks... and now im running something different that hit for 80 on t1. And it a STAGE 2 deck! now i gotta test that under trainer lock...



Hopefully not. I'm not shareing anything more about the deck... fine one more thing. DRAW POWER.



In the "state's deck" thread- another thread with atrocious grammar.


I've noticed it in numerous posts, so I wanted to let him know there's a reason no one does that kind of talk- because it's seen as spam, useless, and inflammatory (trying to draw out responses, etc. otherwise why bother posting it?).

He could have easily said:

Hmm... I'm going to test this deck AND a palkia G deck with my own secret tech... witch I will not share. You guys can find it out for yourselfs. (it's probly bad anyway lol)
That entire part after AND (which is emphasized, further drawing attention to the pointless second clause) is unnecessary and inflammatory spam. People don't like it, and I definitely think it's annoying to read. No one cares about what bad deck you are testing. You are a very new senior and are a blip on no one's radar. You could reveal your exact deck and list and nothing would change.

[yoyofsho16]

Wait, so decks with Luxray GL and Donphan run that AND Manectric/Nidoqueen? How do they fit it?

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

No one cares about what bad deck you are testing. You are a very new senior and are a blip on no one's radar. You could reveal your exact deck and list and nothing would change.

Ryan, you are a boss.

[Shino Bug Master]

Kingdra and Gyarados can be countered with relative ease, usig the old Donphan SW and Mr. Mime. Though Gyarados is still a big threat with how much room for Luxray/Palkia/Warp/Reversal/Cyclone it has. Palkia is just going to be a bad match-up, Gatr won't see much play and takes too much time setting up.

Another counter is Jumpluff, who you fail to 2HKO without Belt, and fail to 2HKO with belt if they have Shaymin out, and can OHKO you in certain cirumstances.

[Ghost spread]

In the "state's deck" thread- another thread with atrocious grammar.


I've noticed it in numerous posts, so I wanted to let him know there's a reason no one does that kind of talk- because it's seen as spam, useless, and inflammatory (trying to draw out responses, etc. otherwise why bother posting it?).

He could have easily said:


That entire part after AND (which is emphasized, further drawing attention to the pointless second clause) is unnecessary and inflammatory spam. People don't like it, and I definitely think it's annoying to read. No one cares about what bad deck you are testing. You are a very new senior and are a blip on no one's radar. You could reveal your exact deck and list and nothing would change.

Looks like I poped someone's buble of calmness (I forgot the phrase... I soupose you're going to find something bad in this post to eh?)

Yes i'm not a blip on anyone's rader, not until I win states (wich won't be this year but mabey next year)

OT: Jumpluff does destroy this deck. But if you can KO it early then the match should be fine.

[ryanvergel]

its a damage 'cap' at 60, intense retreat, and a double weakness to water that destroy this deck.

[Ghost spread]

Belt, flygon, exploud/luxary. Do you think that covers it?

[baby mario]

Belt makes donks easier, true. If you Belt your Donphan vs Gyarados though . . . well, let's say that is not a good idea.

Flygon/Exploud = you just lost the one thing that makes Donphan competitive: being a fast T2 deck. Now it's just an alt attacker in a different deck (Flygon), or running awkward techs at the expense of speed and consistency (Exploud)

Luxray . . . no, a Luxray tech won't begin to cover your weakness against a 130 HP Pokemon like Gyarados (are you also teching Lucario GL??). Gyarados has instant recovery and will be playing a Luxray counter. You are not taking 6 Prizes with a Luxray tech.

[Ghost spread]

Switch, nido/blissy, lucario (Donphan already has a x2 weakness) and luxary. Mabey some warp points?

[baby mario]

You COULD run all of those things, but you greatly hurt your chances of a T1/2 Earthquake against other decks by packing the deck with techs for a match up which will STILL be bad.

Donphan needs to be doing it's thing T1/T2 and either outright donking, or putting your opponent under so much pressure they can't set up and you win in a few turns anyway. If the game goes past that point and your opponent has set up, then Donphan's attack (even with Belt) is going to start looking pretty poor in comparison.