Rogue Deck Idea (post-rotation)

[DragonClyne725]

I was looking at the cards that are MD-on when I came across a possible combination for a rogue deck:

3-2-3 Dustox PT (http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=42255)
2-2 Roserade UL (http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=50177)

The goal would be to get the Defending Pokemon infected with 2 or more Special Conditions so that they can't harm Dustox. Dustox's attack can do this and so can Roserade's pokepower.

To insure that they don't just retreat to remove all Special Conditions you could also use a 2-2 Dugtrio PT (http://pokegym.net/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=42254) that way they would at least take damage to retreat.

If this deck works, you would have an invincible Dustox.

Do you think that this strategy could work now that Unown G is leaving, and are there other cards that could add to this?

discuss

[Noah121]

I like the idea, but with Switch and Poke-Turn still running rampant, I'm afraid that it's probably too easy to get around at this point in the game. You'd probably also want to use Energy Link and/or Lucian's Assignment so that you can still attack with Dustox.

[Illydth]

Couple things to look at with this as well.

I was going through my Son's Shuppet Deck, trying to figure out if there was ANY way I was going to be able to revive it for next season (26th over all at nats and 2ond for Regionals in Juniors division)...and wasn't having a whole lot of luck.

While going through our cards and reorganizing them (taking out all the early DP stuff) I ran across Budew SF (sorry, too new here to figure out how to link cards) which might be a nice starter for you...immune to everything if the defending pokemon is poisoned.

Also, you might consider Skuntank G in this build as well...gets that poison going very quickly (thought admittedly, it'll affect you as well) so you're down to only 1 status condition you need to set to get that Dustox immunity going.

You'd look to start with Budew SF and get Skuntank down ASAP to get Budew's Immunity going while you start powering up Dustox and get a Roserade down. Then you start stacking status conditions with Roserade to get the Dustox immunity going.

That said, I agree with Noah121, I've given up on the idea of status conditions being set for any length of time given all the free retreat (Flygon any any variant would be an AutoLoss for this deck) and warp/switch being played these days. There's nothing left in the format right now that increases retreat cost (the one pokemon that did so with a poke body just got rotated) so there's no way to force a pokemon to stay in slot except by attack, which doesn't do you any good.

*sniffle* So much for my last hope to revive Shuppet. RIP Mr. Mime MT, we miss you already.

--Illydth

[Barkjon]

The dude above me has some really good ideas.

Budew can easily sit up in active position and take damage (as long as your opponent is poisioned, otherwise BAM Budew is dead!) and also get out pokemon quick with it's attack.

I'd say put 2 Skuntank G in there, along with 2 or 3 BTS (both to evolve Dustox and Roserade quickly, and also provide for Skuntanks Poke-Power).

Of course, one of the problems is your opponent using Switches, SSU's, or Poke-Turns (if your playing against SP). So consider teching in Spiritomb AR to stop them from using those.

[Mewtral]

Post rotation will be this card (hopefully we get it) called Vileplume. It has a body to stop trainers being played on either side, not needing to be active. So that handles your switch and poketurn problem. :p

[Dennis Hawk]

Do it pre-rotation.

Dustox itself is pretty horrible, but the body has something going for him. That is, Memory Berry and Cascoon DP.

Cascoon DP has the following attack:

:grass::colorless: Gooey Thread (20) The Defending Pokemon can't retreat during your opponent's next turn.

Roserade can inflict double status to the defending Pokémon with Rainbow Energy, then only thing you need to do is to start locking your opponent in place with Gooey Thread. You will still have to worry about Warp Points and Pokéturns, but with a bit of gaming eye, you can propably pick some targets to bind easily. This acts as an alternative strategy if your opponent has no problems in retreating, but is not playing too much switching cards in his or her deck. Doing repeated 20, denying retreat and giving out poison + confuse can pretty much take out any big hitter in the format.

[Illydth]

Post rotation will be this card (hopefully we get it) called Vileplume. It has a body to stop trainers being played on either side, not needing to be active. So that handles your switch and poketurn problem. :p

Way....wha??!?!?!?!??

Seriously? If that's the case you just found the ultimate winning deck:

Vileplume stops trainers so you can't remove the status conditions (switch, etc.)
Rosearade + Rainbow = Two Status Conditions.
Dustox + 2 Status = Unkillable
Dustox + 2 Status + Memory Berry = No Retreat, No switch, no damage.

Again, start with Budew + Skuntank to get the early immunity, and then build 1 roserade, 2 dustox and a vileplume.

Congratulations, you win.

The only thing your opponent has at this point is Warp Energy...so he can technically take 4 kills on you...period.

Play it like you would Glistomb and do the math to ensure poison knocks the opponent out on your turn not theirs, and/or play something like Blazikin FB, get a bunch of damage on each pokemon with this tactic (switch the active, retreat or poketurn, then lock+immunity, then use something like Giratina X or Gengar X to clean up for 6 prizes at a time.

--Illydth

[Sir Bidoof]

Hello People; I would like to introduce you to a thing called sniping. Can't do anything to the active? Now this is where sniping comes in. It allows you to hit your opponents benched pokemon. Imagine that, being able to evade the invincibility lock. You don't think there is anything like this? Let me introduce you to a little card named Garchomp C. It can do 80 damage to any of your opponents pokemon, allowing a loophole in this deck's strategy. Don't worry though, it is only one of the most played cards in the format.

[Mewtral]

Hello People; I would like to introduce you to a thing called sniping. Can't do anything to the active? Now this is where sniping comes in. It allows you to hit your opponents benched pokemon. Imagine that, being able to evade the invincibility lock. You don't think there is anything like this? Let me introduce you to a little card named Garchomp C. It can do 80 damage to any of your opponents pokemon, allowing a loophole in this deck's strategy. Don't worry though, it is only one of the most played cards in the format.

Yah, but if your confused, good luck not KOn yourself. If anything, well play with 4 bench shields. :]

[jeffrey123]

I tried using crobat. Status isn't effective. Way too many free retreaters to do ANYTHING

[Illydth]

Yah, but if your confused, good luck not KOn yourself. If anything, well play with 4 bench shields. :]

Heh, you know, I can't say I've been in this game as long as many others (only about a year now) but I've got to say I've never seen a more defensible group of players than folks running LuxChomp decks...If you listen to them absolutely nothing can beat them!

Manectric PL + Bench Shield = The end of the snipe strategy also.

Next.

--Illydth

[Mewtral]

Manectric PL doesn't protect itself. Once it's gone, your defenses are lowered. So bench shield it.
Yes, they run ellite decks for sure, but it's not invincible.

[Illydth]

I tried using crobat. Status isn't effective. Way too many free retreaters to do ANYTHING

Alex: The point of this is that when Dustox comes swinging, he should have a memory berry on him. Doesn't matter what your active is at that point, free retreat or not isn't going to help...that's what the "can't retreat" attack is all about.

The downside to this deck concept (and it is an intriguing one, very intriguing) is that it's one of those "perfect setup" decks to get going.

You need Dustox, Energy, Rosearade, Energy, Skuntank, and Vileplume all on the board before the strategy starts working. The Skuntank G + Budew thing works to help slow things down, but I suspect, with the deck swinging for 20 a turn with maybe an additional 10 or 30 from status only, that early game prizes is going to be costly...

The deck would seem (like glistomb) to run to time a lot, anyone jumping ahead of you significantly in prizes early would likely get the win to time...and other than budew and poison status conditions there's really nothing here that can't be eaten alive by most of what's out there in the format right now.

That said, i may have to give this a try at league if/when we ever get that vileplume you're talking about into play.

--Illydth

Re: Invincibility.

My apologies if you felt I was suggesting this was an invincible deck. One of the best things about this game is a lack of "the ultimate deck". I've seen perma lock glistomb run too many times to count and it sure LOOKS impossible to beat at first glance, but it's not. That said, look at the combo and you quickly come to realize that perma lock trainers from the bench is going to make this one REALLY TOUGH deck to beat...and there will only be a few decks or specificly teched decks that will be able to do it.

[Team_Rocket_Prodigy]

I think this is a mediocre idea at best. You fall victim to poketurn, ssu, warp point, anything sp at that matter, switch, cursegar in general, the list goes on. And just glancing at the deck as a whole you have to waste you're energy for turn on a roserade this making the deck slower and keeping dustox away from attacking sooner. I do like how it can abuse DCE but honestly this deck wouldn't win much its been done before.

[Illydth]

TRP: Note that the only thing that would make make me disagree with you is if the Vileplume mentioned in this thread actually comes to being...otherwise, as I stated originally, too much free retreat, too much switch played.

If, however, as suggested, a trainer lock from the bench comes into play most of what you list there (sp, ssu, war, switch, etc.) is ineffective, just like it is with Glistomb. That said, I COMPLETELY forgot about punch and run like Cursegar, which would eat this deck for breakfast without even slowing down.

--Illydth

[Team_Rocket_Prodigy]

Way....wha??!?!?!?!??

Seriously? If that's the case you just found the ultimate winning deck:

Vileplume stops trainers so you can't remove the status conditions (switch, etc.)
Rosearade + Rainbow = Two Status Conditions.
Dustox + 2 Status = Unkillable
Dustox + 2 Status + Memory Berry = No Retreat, No switch, no damage.

Again, start with Budew + Skuntank to get the early immunity, and then build 1 roserade, 2 dustox and a vileplume.

Congratulations, you win.

The only thing your opponent has at this point is Warp Energy...so he can technically take 4 kills on you...period.

Play it like you would Glistomb and do the math to ensure poison knocks the opponent out on your turn not theirs, and/or play something like Blazikin FB, get a bunch of damage on each pokemon with this tactic (switch the active, retreat or poketurn, then lock+immunity, then use something like Giratina X or Gengar X to clean up for 6 prizes at a time.

--Illydth

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I seriously teared up I was laughing so hard! Yup man your right you just found the best deck of all time :) Dialga doesn't beat it nor does steelix prime, Also I'm assuming you realized that sniping and the fact that you have to set up a vileplume a roserade and a dustox with a memory beery, of course before you lock yourself with vileplume that you will out speed your opponent. Well I know my Nats 2011 deck now :D

[waynegg]

Way....wha??!?!?!?!??

Seriously? If that's the case you just found the ultimate winning deck:

Vileplume stops trainers so you can't remove the status conditions (switch, etc.)
Rosearade + Rainbow = Two Status Conditions.
Dustox + 2 Status = Unkillable
Dustox + 2 Status + Memory Berry = No Retreat, No switch, no damage.

Again, start with Budew + Skuntank to get the early immunity, and then build 1 roserade, 2 dustox and a vileplume.

Congratulations, you win.

The only thing your opponent has at this point is Warp Energy...so he can technically take 4 kills on you...period.

Play it like you would Glistomb and do the math to ensure poison knocks the opponent out on your turn not theirs, and/or play something like Blazikin FB, get a bunch of damage on each pokemon with this tactic (switch the active, retreat or poketurn, then lock+immunity, then use something like Giratina X or Gengar X to clean up for 6 prizes at a time.

--Illydth

You would want it to ko at the end of their turn, not during yours, to keep the lock going. A little energy acceleration, ala Leafeon X or the like, would auto lock providing you have the energy in your hand to attach a grass and a psychic.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I seriously teared up I was laughing so hard! Yup man your right you just found the best deck of all time :) Dialga doesn't beat it nor does steelix prime, Also I'm assuming you realized that sniping and the fact that you have to set up a vileplume a roserade and a dustox with a memory beery, of course before you lock yourself with vileplume that you will out speed your opponent. Well I know my Nats 2011 deck now :D

It's still good theorymon and something the right deck builder could probably make consistent. There will be counters to any and every deck, so to throw one uncommonly used card (DGX) and one useless card against the entire meta (Steelix) as reasons to not even give it a shot is really counter-productive.

I think this is a mediocre idea at best. You fall victim to poketurn, ssu, warp point, anything sp at that matter, switch, cursegar in general, the list goes on. And just glancing at the deck as a whole you have to waste you're energy for turn on a roserade this making the deck slower and keeping dustox away from attacking sooner. I do like how it can abuse DCE but honestly this deck wouldn't win much its been done before.

You must be referring to the Neo era Misdreavus/Dark Gengar deck which didn't sweep pretty much every tournament, right? :rolleyes:

[Reader1237]

I ran Dustox for a while and it really is a good deck.
It just has a lot of really bad match ups and without claydol they all get worse...
it folds to disruption which is pretty popular right now. (Sablock, Luxchomp)

I was really tempted to play it at states but decided against it at the last minute.
When Vileplume comes out I definately will try it again.

[Dennis Hawk]

Again, Cascoon DP and Vileplume won't be on the same format, so that's enough of that combo.

Memory Berry Dustox is an alternative strategy against something like Flygon, who tends to get out of status conditions pretty easily. So it turns an autoloss matchup into autowin (well, you would have to setup and worry about the level up, but that's a different story).

I'm not sure if anything in the format can set this thing up. You would need Spiritombs, 2 turns to attach energies to Cascoon before you can even think about putting energies to Roserade, which you also would need to setup. Also, drawing into Rainbow energies is fun and productive, maybe you could try teching in Interviewer. I would also like to see some SSUs, considering you're slowly KOing your Roserade while attaching Rainbows.

Of course this would win some games against the following:

- Gardy/Gallade (so much going for Dustox here, you could even call this an autowin)
- Flygon (Lock 'em up, they don't usually bother with Warp Points. Watch out for Palkia Lv.X and Flygon Lv.X drop)
- Donphan (if you ever get set up, Donphan just hates Special conditions)

Would have an average matchup against following:

- Gyarados (more or less depending on the number of Warp Energies)
- Jumpluff (more or less depending on the number of Warp Points)

...and lose to all SP (even with Tombs) and Gengar (if you don't get to trap Tombs somehow or play some awesome techs like Palkia Lv.X to lock up that 'Gar). And Gigas due to Recover mechanism, duh.

So don't get too excited, it's a funny concept but not among the best ones here.