DialgaChomp; Will it continue to win in the new format?

[jeffrey123]

Now that DialgaChomp loses Claydol, along with Unown G , how badly do you think DialgaChomp will be hurt? No more deck cycling for Special metals either. What are your opinions on how well this deck will do next format?

[Dennis Hawk]

The deck will do well.

1. Every other deck loses Claydol too. DialgaChomp is so lucky to get what it needs with supporters (Interviewer's question).
2. Huge bodies are arriving. Vileplume, Gengar Prime and Mew Prime are prime examples of the things that will be ultimately suffering in front of Dialga G Lv.X (although Gengar may have an out with Gengar Lv.X).
3. The deck should be able to fit in Skuntank + Toxicroak G against Machamp. The psychic energy is already played there, so charging Toxi won't be a problem. Stadiums go well with Deafen and might give outs to some matchups (Galactic's HQ against evolution decks, Conductive Quarry provides an energy supply).

I'll be sure to play it next season, as it doesn't really carry any fatal autolosses.

[DIZZtheWHIZZ]

The only thing the deck loses is 1-1 Claydol, so yes, the deck will still be, if not more of a threat next season.

[Banette EX]

ITs still going to be played like the other SPs will, they will just add 2-1 Toxitank to counter Machamp.

[MattPL]

The deck will do well.

1. Every other deck loses Claydol too. DialgaChomp is so lucky to get what it needs with supporters (Interviewer's question).
2. Huge bodies are arriving. Vileplume, Gengar Prime and Mew Prime are prime examples of the things that will be ultimately suffering in front of Dialga G Lv.X (although Gengar may have an out with Gengar Lv.X).
3. The deck should be able to fit in Skuntank + Toxicroak G against Machamp. The psychic energy is already played there, so charging Toxi won't be a problem. Stadiums go well with Deafen and might give outs to some matchups (Galactic's HQ against evolution decks, Conductive Quarry provides an energy supply).

I'll be sure to play it next season, as it doesn't really carry any fatal autolosses.

Mew Prime? I didn't think any one was actually going to use that card.

Regardless, I think SP's in general are going to do well next season, including DialgaChomp.

[Barkjon]

Yep, SP's will still be around next season. They will still dominate, sadly.

[MattPL]

Yep, SP's will still be around next season. They will still dominate, sadly.

Unless Machamp actually does well, but I'm still skepticle about that one :nonono:

[FunnyBear]

The deck will do well.

1. Every other deck loses Claydol too. DialgaChomp is so lucky to get what it needs with supporters (Interviewer's question).
2. Huge bodies are arriving. Vileplume, Gengar Prime and Mew Prime are prime examples of the things that will be ultimately suffering in front of Dialga G Lv.X (although Gengar may have an out with Gengar Lv.X).
3. The deck should be able to fit in Skuntank + Toxicroak G against Machamp. The psychic energy is already played there, so charging Toxi won't be a problem. Stadiums go well with Deafen and might give outs to some matchups (Galactic's HQ against evolution decks, Conductive Quarry provides an energy supply).

I'll be sure to play it next season, as it doesn't really carry any fatal autolosses.

And it will fit in Palkia/Dialga Legend nicely, moving metal energy onto the card with Bronzong so it can do the attack twice in 2 turns before getting KOd, adding +4 to the opponent's prizes while giving up 2.

[mewbreon]

Mew Prime? I didn't think any one was actually going to use that card.



apparently somebodys not hip with the mew prime/ gengar prime / hunter/ spiritomb (lost link) deck that the eastern players are all in a buzz about

(eastern as in asia.... not eastern america)

---------- Post added 07/09/2010 at 09:23 PM ----------

oops i just spilled the beanzzzz

[Happiny13]

apparently somebodys not hip with the mew prime/ gengar prime / hunter/ spiritomb (lost link) deck that the eastern players are all in a buzz about

(eastern as in asia.... not eastern america)

---------- Post added 07/09/2010 at 09:23 PM ----------

oops i just spilled the beanzzzz

I wasn't aware that people were already using this combo. On topic, I think Dialga is better without claydol to get T1 Deafen more often. I think it is the play for BR's at least.

[Mewtral]

Throwing out some counter cards for the mix:
Scizor Prime,
The Lunarsoul tech (Lunatone SV Solrock CS),
Rapidash AR with Wild Guard and Ponyta with acension,
and, cards that would snipe Dialga G lvX,

[renfield89]

^I can't exactly tell what you are trying to say there.. You know those are all PokeBodies, right?

[Mewtral]

I'm just listing some cards that may be on some peoples minds. also throwing in the upcoming Umbreon (unduanted I believe).
And yes, I do know that, but If someone really wants it to work, they will thow some cards in to get Dialga G off their back. For example, Gengar LvX might be used with the Lunasoul tech. Flygon LvX might be teamed up with Flygon LvX to do serious LvX snipe.

[MattPL]

apparently somebodys not hip with the mew prime/ gengar prime / hunter/ spiritomb (lost link) deck that the eastern players are all in a buzz about

(eastern as in asia.... not eastern america)

---------- Post added 07/09/2010 at 09:23 PM ----------

oops i just spilled the beanzzzz

Meh, I thought it was all us americans just hyping the new set :rolleyes:

[uuuufff]

That new energy exchange unit trainer looks like a great way to get special metals, so I think with that the deck can survive without claydol.

[AyameHikaru]

Umbreon UD is an interesting tech against DialgaChomp. Does it run ANYTHING other than the base Dialga G that doesn't have a Pokepower or Pokebody? Because Umbreon shuts it down completely if no.

(For those who don't know)

Umbreon - Darkness - HP 90
Stage 1 - Evolves from Eevee

[D] Moonlight Fang: 30 damage. Prevent all effects of attacks, including damage, done to this Pokemon by your opponent’s Pokemon with any Poke-Powers or Poke-Bodies during your opponent’s next turn.
[D][C] Quick Attack: 30 damage. Flip a coin, if heads this attack does an additional 30 damage.

Weakness: Fighting (x2)
Resistance: Psychic (-20)
Retreat: 1

[tarheel_bivens]

It wont be hard to just kill umbreon with a dialga G or even garchomp c

[travis3290]

Umbreon UD is an interesting tech against DialgaChomp. Does it run ANYTHING other than the base Dialga G that doesn't have a Pokepower or Pokebody? Because Umbreon shuts it down completely if no.

(For those who don't know)

Umbreon - Darkness - HP 90
Stage 1 - Evolves from Eevee

[D] Moonlight Fang: 30 damage. Prevent all effects of attacks, including damage, done to this Pokemon by your opponent’s Pokemon with any Poke-Powers or Poke-Bodies during your opponent’s next turn.
[D][C] Quick Attack: 30 damage. Flip a coin, if heads this attack does an additional 30 damage.

Weakness: Fighting (x2)
Resistance: Psychic (-20)
Retreat: 1

promocroak has its way with umbreon though

[Happiny13]

Umbreon UD is an interesting tech against DialgaChomp. Does it run ANYTHING other than the base Dialga G that doesn't have a Pokepower or Pokebody? Because Umbreon shuts it down completely if no.

(For those who don't know)

Umbreon - Darkness - HP 90
Stage 1 - Evolves from Eevee

[D] Moonlight Fang: 30 damage. Prevent all effects of attacks, including damage, done to this Pokemon by your opponent’s Pokemon with any Poke-Powers or Poke-Bodies during your opponent’s next turn.
[D][C] Quick Attack: 30 damage. Flip a coin, if heads this attack does an additional 30 damage.

Weakness: Fighting (x2)
Resistance: Psychic (-20)
Retreat: 1

The base Dialga is enough. You can deafen with an Expert belt while using skuntank to knock it out and preventing the opponent from using trainers.

[Barkjon]

Unless Machamp actually does well, but I'm still skepticle about that one :nonono:

Exactly. I don't see why it doesn't do well. The strategy is good, the card is great.

[JBowroxmysox]

Umbreon UD is an interesting tech against DialgaChomp. Does it run ANYTHING other than the base Dialga G that doesn't have a Pokepower or Pokebody? Because Umbreon shuts it down completely if no.

(For those who don't know)

Umbreon - Darkness - HP 90
Stage 1 - Evolves from Eevee

[D] Moonlight Fang: 30 damage. Prevent all effects of attacks, including damage, done to this Pokemon by your opponent’s Pokemon with any Poke-Powers or Poke-Bodies during your opponent’s next turn.
[D][C] Quick Attack: 30 damage. Flip a coin, if heads this attack does an additional 30 damage.

Weakness: Fighting (x2)
Resistance: Psychic (-20)
Retreat: 1

Ummm...Moonlight Fang does wayyyy too little damage, and Deafen+Flash Bite+Second Strike 2HKOs while shutting off Trainers for a turn. Cute thought, but ultimately not worth the time or space. If Moonlight Fang was 1 for 50/60 or something, then I'd say yes.

To answer the OP, besides Claydol and Unown (G), DialgaChomp loses nothing to the rotation and it gains Energy Exchange Unit, which is rather sexy for grabbing those SP Metals and DCEs early (and it makes sure that you don't draw your Basic Energies too fast; you can just shuffle them in and Cyrus for them later).

[TheGeneral]

promocroak has its way with umbreon though

Except that, you know...promocroak has a power...

[travis3290]

Except that, you know...promocroak has a power...

wow my bad :lol: :lol:

[Mewtral]

There is also Umbreon (http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=tcgsearchcard&imageid=34946) MD that would drop weakness and retreat costs.
and personally, I feel that eeveelution decks might make a comeback.

[amphachu]

There is also Umbreon (http://pokegym.net/forums/view.php?pg=tcgsearchcard&imageid=34946) MD that would drop weakness and retreat costs.
and personally, I feel that eeveelution decks might make a comeback.

No...just no...

1717171717171717

[Naki Feralkin]

Dialgachomp will still be relevant, however I doubt it will be Tier 1 Caliber. With even the scare of Charizard being relevant next season as it has one of the few draw engines around, that should be more than enough to scare Dialga into submission.

I am not saying in any way shape or form that Charizard is anything above a Tier 2-3 deck, however just the fact that it exists and has a draw engine unlike most decks in the format will likely keep Dialchomp in check.

[amphachu]

Dialgachomp will still be relevant, however I doubt it will be Tier 1 Caliber. With even the scare of Charizard being relevant next season as it has one of the few draw engines around, that should be more than enough to scare Dialga into submission.

I am not saying in any way shape or form that Charizard is anything above a Tier 2-3 deck, however just the fact that it exists and has a draw engine unlike most decks in the format will likely keep Dialchomp in check.

Unless theyre getting a T1 Zard, Dchomp shouldnt have that hard of a time. Garchomp just snipes away Ninetales, Charmanders, and Charmelions.

[travis3290]

Dialgachomp will still be relevant, however I doubt it will be Tier 1 Caliber. With even the scare of Charizard being relevant next season as it has one of the few draw engines around, that should be more than enough to scare Dialga into submission.

I am not saying in any way shape or form that Charizard is anything above a Tier 2-3 deck, however just the fact that it exists and has a draw engine unlike most decks in the format will likely keep Dialchomp in check.

charizards a pokebody :/ im not saying that means charizard cant win, but it does hurt it a bit. I think dialgachomp will be a good deck still but man i dont know how long i can rely on quagsire gl :lol:

[prodigal_fanboy]

Dialgachomp will still be relevant, however I doubt it will be Tier 1 Caliber. With even the scare of Charizard being relevant next season as it has one of the few draw engines around, that should be more than enough to scare Dialga into submission.

I am not saying in any way shape or form that Charizard is anything above a Tier 2-3 deck, however just the fact that it exists and has a draw engine unlike most decks in the format will likely keep Dialchomp in check.

You are so good at this gogogo. Time Crystal + don't attack with Dialga ftw.

[Happiny13]

Charizards only does 60 for 1 to Dialga. If Dialga can beat Kingdra no then it can beat Charizard next format.

[chrataxe]

charizards a pokebody :/ im not saying that means charizard cant win, but it does hurt it a bit. I think dialgachomp will be a good deck still but man i dont know how long i can rely on quagsire gl :lol:

Lol, I run Quagsire GL in many SP decks as a Donphan counter.

[jeffrey123]

To beat fire you just tank Bronzong G with sp metals. 3 sp metals and -20 resist to fire= (-50)

[Naki Feralkin]

The issue I have with Dialchomp is it just seemed so reliant on its draw power from Claydol that ever getting Special Metals in this format relying heavily on Uxies (ERL says yum prizes) is almost irrelevant enough that you're just better off with Luxchomp. Dialchomp is used for its tankability and its ability to shut down notable bodies. Whats the point if you don't ever see a SP. Metal and a Luxchomp techs Blaziken if it becomes relevant?

Don't get me wrong. I preferred Dialchomp to Luxchomp. The list is much more refined, but I've always felt that Dialchomp just needed Claydol far more than any other SP list.

You are so good at this gogogo. Time Crystal + don't attack with Dialga ftw.

Arguing your point, what exactly is stopping Zard from teching Blaze FB to drag non-attacking Dialga out? Its a fire pokemon so it only helps its damage once body goes away and it keeps non-attacking Dialga from running away like a little baby. If Dialga stays on the field it just dies.

And don't argue Quagsire. I've been seeing Exploud techs in Zard lately. (again with dialga G hanging out its irrelevant, but one doesn't typically see both Quag and Dialga in the same deck.)

[MattPL]

The issue I have with Dialchomp is it just seemed so reliant on its draw power from Claydol that ever getting Special Metals in this format relying heavily on Uxies (ERL says yum prizes) is almost irrelevant enough that you're just better off with Luxchomp. Dialchomp is used for its tankability and its ability to shut down notable bodies. Whats the point if you don't ever see a SP. Metal and a Luxchomp techs Blaziken if it becomes relevant?

Don't get me wrong. I preferred Dialchomp to Luxchomp. The list is much more refined, but I've always felt that Dialchomp just needed Claydol far more than any other SP list.



Arguing your point, what exactly is stopping Zard from teching Blaze FB to drag non-attacking Dialga out? Its a fire pokemon so it only helps its damage once body goes away and it keeps non-attacking Dialga from running away like a little baby. If Dialga stays on the field it just dies.

And don't argue Quagsire. I've been seeing Exploud techs in Zard lately. (again with dialga G hanging out its irrelevant, but one doesn't typically see both Quag and Dialga in the same deck.)

The fact that Garchomp which slaughter it maybe?

[jeffrey123]

The thing with Dialgachomp is that the deck heavily relies on drawpower as opposed to other sp decks (naki nailed it), and as I play the deck I generally either draw all my sp metals or I do not, i.e. it can be extremely inconsistent in grabbing the SP Meatls, although this will change with energy exchange unit. The reason I play dialgachomp > Luxchomp is because Dialgachomp's win conditions are always set in stone. Once you get Dialga setup, GG. No deck can withstand Deafening for 30, shutting down bodies, locking trainers, and a big attack that nails for 100 along with lost zoning energy, not to mention that Dialga's a tank. Luxchomp is faster but can be KO'd that much easier. Dialgachomp also autowins vs Shuppet so that's a nice thing to have, a guaranteed autowin.

Dialgachomp can beat Charizard, you just have to have good tactics and know when to spray. Charizard decks rely on draw and power spray can shut that down very easily. Charizard may see play in BR's, but it will die out again. Too weak of a deck to withstand the format, (sp runs all over it). On Quagsire, that's not a great tech anyways. You'd still be giving up a prize to charizard each time and not OHKO'ing it unless you belt, which is the stupidest desperation tactic, i'd rather belt a Tyrogue.

In my honest opinion Dialgachomp will continue to do well because it has no problem fitting in 5 cards to beat machamp, as well as still locking and with less drawpower trainer lock will hurt alot more.

[prodigal_fanboy]

The issue I have with Dialchomp is it just seemed so reliant on its draw power from Claydol that ever getting Special Metals in this format relying heavily on Uxies (ERL says yum prizes) is almost irrelevant enough that you're just better off with Luxchomp. Dialchomp is used for its tankability and its ability to shut down notable bodies. Whats the point if you don't ever see a SP. Metal and a Luxchomp techs Blaziken if it becomes relevant?

Don't get me wrong. I preferred Dialchomp to Luxchomp. The list is much more refined, but I've always felt that Dialchomp just needed Claydol far more than any other SP list.



Arguing your point, what exactly is stopping Zard from teching Blaze FB to drag non-attacking Dialga out? Its a fire pokemon so it only helps its damage once body goes away and it keeps non-attacking Dialga from running away like a little baby. If Dialga stays on the field it just dies.

And don't argue Quagsire. I've been seeing Exploud techs in Zard lately. (again with dialga G hanging out its irrelevant, but one doesn't typically see both Quag and Dialga in the same deck.)

T(X): Luring Flame Dialga G X
T(X.5): DCE/Warp, D. Rush Blaziken
T(X+1): Charizard's body is still shut off

It's a good thing Dialga doesn't run Warp Energy or DCE!

I'd be more worried about what Alex mentioned, the consistent deck-churning draw that enabled the healing breath combo to go off reliably every turn.

[drpokey]

I don't think DIALGACHOMP is gonna be very good.

[Dennis Hawk]

I don't think DIALGACHOMP is gonna be very good.

Please elaborate. What makes you think that way? Is the upcoming meta against Dialgachomp? Does Dialgachomp lose something too valuable in the rotation? Are the counters too splashable for every deck to make the Dialgachomp matchup easy?

I personally think none of the above will occur. I'm not seeing any decent fire decks rising up in the rotation (Charizard may be a bit more decent, but with Kingdra and Gyarados staying in the format, it still won't rise to the high-tier level). ERL is clunky and will lose Claydols to target in rotation (though it will gain Uxies), and Promocroak can OHKO it back with a Crobat drop. Blaziken FB is currently not seen too often, although it might gain popularity as an alternative attacker in some SP decks - this will mostly be because of Dialga, though.

Of course DialgaChomp is a tad slower than most SP decks in general and losing Claydol hurts a bit more. Also upcoming Lost removal (trainer that lost zones a Special energy) can hurt a non-Deafening Dialga if played in more than singles. Machamp of course OHKOs it regardless of the number of special metals attached, and so will Blaziken FB Lv.X (well, not if there's Expert Belt and 3+ metals). Of course, DialgaChomp has some alternative attackers for these, but they will hurt a tanking, fully charged Dialga.

What Dialgachomp will gain are Energy exchange unit (c'mon, Warp/DCE/Special metal with a trainer) or Interviewer's (that has been seen in some lists even now) to get the metals. Futhermore, Machamp can be dealt with Skuntank/Toxicroak which is easier to drop in than in most decks due to Dialgachomp being more stadium-oriented than most of the other SPs.

[losjackal]

My two cents....Dialga G will be most valuable for a fast Deafen lock to disrupt, and then Level Up and bench sit for Time Crystal to shut off opponent Poke-Bodies. That makes it a starter and a tech, but not necessarily the main attacker anymore for aforementioned reasons. Maybe Garchomp C Lv X is still the best companion, but I'm going to think of some other creative partners.

[Naki Feralkin]

I will admit that I completely forgot about Energy Exchange unit (I've only been paying attention to some of the new cards not all.) and that will create a good out for Dialgachomp. But how many lists will run that already having to worry about losing an SP tutor engine with the uprising of Vileplume?

I'm just trying to think of this realistically. Again, I've got nothing against Dialchomp.

[travis3290]

I will admit that I completely forgot about Energy Exchange unit (I've only been paying attention to some of the new cards not all.) and that will create a good out for Dialgachomp. But how many lists will run that already having to worry about losing an SP tutor engine with the uprising of Vileplume?

I'm just trying to think of this realistically. Again, I've got nothing against Dialchomp.

thats a pokebody, so unless they get a vileplume out faster then you can get a dialga g x(super unlikely) it doesnt matter

[Happiny13]

Dialga Chomp gets past Vileplume, and many other bodies. Energy exchange unit makes Dialga Chomp so much better as it will help you achieve T1 Deafen more often, lets you collector when you need a specific energy, and gives you a consistent way to get Special metals. Now Dialgachomp has the edge against Luxchomp and many other decks. Also, it has disruption to shut down most Stage 2 decks.

[Lime Face]

Dialga Chomp gets past Vileplume, and many other bodies. Energy exchange unit makes Dialga Chomp so much better as it will help you achieve T1 Deafen more often, lets you collector when you need a specific energy, and gives you a consistent way to get Special metals. Now Dialgachomp has the edge against Luxchomp and many other decks. Also, it has disruption to shut down most Stage 2 decks.

This is true. And with the new Ditto
Ditto - Colorless - HP 40
Basic Pokemon

Poke-Body: Ditto Molecule
Your opponent can only play up to 4 Pokemon onto his or her Bench. If your opponent has 5 Pokemon on his or her Bench, your opponent discards 1 of his or her Benched Pokemon and all cards attached to it.

[C][C] Taper: 20 damage.
It may get even more popular.

[MattPL]

This is true. And with the new Ditto
Ditto - Colorless - HP 40
Basic Pokemon

Poke-Body: Ditto Molecule
Your opponent can only play up to 4 Pokemon onto his or her Bench. If your opponent has 5 Pokemon on his or her Bench, your opponent discards 1 of his or her Benched Pokemon and all cards attached to it.

[C][C] Taper: 20 damage.
It may get even more popular.

Yep, Dialga shuts that off easily. And I didn't want to mention Mew Prime and Gengar Prime, but well, yeah.