chrataxe
10/06/2010, 06:38 PM
Well, apparently you have to have special privileges to post links....which, being the internet and the fact that someone else owns this site, I guess they have that privilege. But, in the Marines, I was told to lead by example. I just assumed that when mods and admins posted links, I was allowed to....guess that's what I get for being 29 years old and being a member of about 20 different forums and not being able to remember EVERY rule for EVERY one. Anyway, to rectify the situation, here is the text to that link:
A little preface. On another forum, I was making a case as to why you don't need to tech your deck to death. One of his techs was Nidoqueen. Not bad, just not preferred by me. Mostly because in his deck, he had a 2-0-2 Nidoqueen line with 3 rare candy. So, he was teching in 5 cards for 1 tech, that just seemed over kill to me.
Yeah, Nidoqueen is sweet, forgot about that. Honestly, i've never tried Nidoqueen in this deck. I just don't like Stage 2 techs in Stage 1 decks. You have to dedicate too many cards to get it out. I think the 2-0-2 line is great and I think the 3 candies are great, the problem is that you have 7 cards dedicated to 1 tech and only one of those techs can essentially be effective (meaning, you can't stack the bodies). Test it man, if you can get it into play CONSISTENTLY, go with it. If not, then it is just too many cards for 1 tech. I guess this comes down to preference and mine is don't run the stage 2 in the stage 1, but dedicating that many cards to a tech will always hurt consistency. As your deck is now, you have these for tech purposes:
1 Broken Time Space (PT)
3 Rare Candy (HSU)
2-0-2 Nidoqueen (RR)
2 Buneary (MD)
2 Lopunny (AR) Looks ridiculous but youll see why
1 Scyther (PT Reprint)
1 Scizor Prime (HSU)
1-1 Glalie (AR)
That's 16 cards by my count. What if you took out those cards and added in cards that helped with consistency? Granted, this deck is MEANT to have some healing power, yes. But, when you look at matchups, you have to ask how can I make my deck set up faster and do the point of the deck? One uncanny thing that makes this deck just absolutely awesome is its ability to get Special Metal energy on Steelix. Now, to do that, you need a few tools to get you there. First, run enough energy to ENSURE you get 2 to start (I ran 19 and sometimes find myself without an energy T1, though I admit, mine was overkill). Second, run enough energy exchanger to ensure you can get them out quickly. I ran 3. It is almost impossible that I don't get 3 on my first Steelix by T3. Now, to make this happen, I have to be able to discard an energy after getting a Special Metal. There are a few cards that help with this, but the more "popular" ones are Blissey PT and Engineer's. Engineer's pairs great with Jirachi. In order to get the best possible starts, you need Jirachi, therefore maxing out Jirachi helps in more ways than one: it ensures you best possible starts, gives your opponent something easy to snipe late game that lets you use his Power, and it gives you a card to discard late game with Blissey. The next card you need is Conductive Quarry. So, ideally, what would happen is that you Double Engineer with Jirachi to discard 2 energy and draw 8 cards your first supporter turn. Granted, it won't always happen. But, lets assume you do. Having had 17 cards in your hand (7+1+8+1), you should have easily came across at least 1 Special metal and 1 energy exchanger. The point of Steelix is to tank and do good damage quick. In order for this to happen, you HAVE to discard energy by T2 at the latest. So, the sole purpose of this deck is to discard 1 energy by T2 and have Steelix swinging for atleast 30 T2 and piling on Special Metal. Now, depending on the matchup, you can leave him on the bench a turn or 2 and draw some more with Jirachi. But, the thing is, the quicker you start energy streaming, the quicker you can start attaching to another Steelix. So, lets look at a some what ideal situation. You go 2nd with a Jirachi start and Detour an Engineer after attaching to Onix. Your oppenent gets set . You use final wish get out a belt. Next turn, you put up Onix, evolve, attach energy, swing for 50 and attach another energy from the discard. This puts you up to 5 most likely (with a DCE). I hate to say "luck," but with a consistent deck, you can get the cards you "need" when you "need" them. By this, I mean that if you run, say 3 Expert Belts and 3 Conductive Quarry and 4 Bebe, it is safe to assume you will draw a Bebe relatively quickly. If you don't, that means you are drawing 4-8 with Engineer's or draw into a Uxie. It is also safe to assume that you will either draw a belt or a Conductive Quarry, meaning you will most likely only need to Final Wish search 1 one them. My point is this: if you don't have the Bebe, if your list is well built, you don't need it because you will have have drawn into the card you needed. So, it is pretty easy to get Steelix hitting for 60 per turn by T2. The reason that is important is because non SP deck basics are USUALLY 50-60 HP. So, if you can start swinging for 50-60 by T2, you can KO their active and hurt their set up AND quit attaching to Steelix and only energy stream the other Special Metal's while hitting for 60 and getting KO's and attaching to your second Steelix on the bench. That means by T7, you can have 2 Steelix fully energized, making it pretty hard for ANYONE to take that down. Now, is that to say it is going to happen every time? Let me speak from experience: HELL NO! But, if your deck is that consistent and won't set up every time, then if you make it less consistent by running more techs, you are going to set up like that even less. So, let me break down a few of the more common matchups so you will understand how consistency is important it real games:
Luxchomp:
2 mains cards to worry about: Luxray and Garchomp (obviously, lol). So, the Lux matchup is rough due to resistance. You have to be able to OHKO everything in this deck. Lux is pretty easily KO'ed by the UL Onix without the body. Its attacks are all colorless. A belted Onix with 3 energy (1 DCE) takes down Lux X with 1 heads. A non belted Onix takes down Luxray X with 2 heads. Chansey/Blissey take down Garchomp with ease for little energy. With only 60 HP, Jirachi is the obvious target for Lux/chomp. Sacrifice 1-2 to help get cards you need, then don't let anything with low HP back on the field. One of a few things will happen: either the will Brighlook something off of the bench. As long as you don't have anything with more than 2 retreat, no big deal. But, being as the only thing you really want on your bench is a high HP Blissey, it won't be OHKO'ed and leaves Luxray active or something else if it is Poke Turned. Either way, if you keep 1 DCE on Blissey the whole game, it allows easy retreating and quick energizing for attacks. Or, Garchomp Dragon Rushes your bench for no KO and is left active for an easy KO. But, in order for this to happen, you need to get DCE out QUICKLY since both attackers will need it. Also, Steelix can OHKO everything except Lux X and if fully powered, will take 4-5 turns to take down 1 Steelix while losing nothing on your bench except your sacrificed Jirachi. But, the key here is to be able to consistenly get out DCE, which means you have to max out DCE and run a reasonable amount of Energy Exchanger, energy, and draw cards to get them in your hand....nothing about techs.
Viletomb:
The key here is a tech that requires 2 cards to pull off. The hard part here is that Shadow Room doesn't let Jirachi use Final Wish. You can tech in 1 Snow Point Temple, but like I said, you need it early and won't draw into it, so it seems pointless. The best thing to do is to let your starting Jirachi get KO'ed. What is odd about this deck is something that everyone misses (so it seems to me): giving up prizes is BENEFICIAL. Think of it like Regigigas Lv X's Sacrifice: you give up a Pokemon you don't want to keep a Pokemon you do want. When the deck struggles if when you have to set up another Steelix because you have to get another belt out and get the Special Metals back on him. If you sacrifice Jirachi, then its a OHKO every time Gengar can Shadow Room. The benefit here is that you can OHKO Gengar (2 HKO Gengar X) and make your opponent HAVE to get another Genagar set up every 1-2 turns while your Steelix never goes down, instead, you give your opponent a couple of easy KO's to keep it set up and heal off the damage in between. The key here is a 5 energy Steelix with no belt and a Skuntank G. Steelix hits for 100 +10 for poison = KO and no Fainting Spell. If the Lv X is active, energy stream for 30, next turn, Gaia crush for 100 + 10 for poison = KO. You will only have to take down 1 Gengar X, so that means you will need to sacrifice a Jirachi to keep the damage off of Steelix, 2HKO Gengar, the its all 1HKO's from there on. My list doesn't run many Trainers, so its a pretty easy matchup. And, since you don't need to get belts, the Jirachi Power isn't really NEEDED, though it would help to get a Stadium because Skuntank is essential to missing fainting spells.
Donphan:
I point out this one in particular because it is interesting. Everyone runs a 1-1 Glalie tech and I'm not really sure why (well, it is a good fire counter but I'll explain in a minute why it is only marginal there as well). Yes, it does do 70 x 2 = 140 - 20 = 120. Chances are, Donphan WILL be belted. Donphan is hard because it sets up VERY fast and can hit for 80+ before you can get loaded with special metals. The other problem is all of its gusting trainers. I got my but whipped pretty good at BR by this deck. In all honesty, I had a very improbable start that hurt and I still almost pulled it off. My experience is this: is a 1-1 tech good enough and quick enough to be effective against a swarming Donphan, especially considering it has to have a Stadium in play and then it discards it? No. I don't know a LOT about Donphan, but I do know enough to know that most lists will have a couple of Donphan out T3 with the ability to get an energy on both. Since I won't be able to get 2 Glalie and 2 Stadium out in this time, is it REALLY a good tech? No. Those who think it is are solely basing it on theorymon: I can potentially OHKO Donphan. Ok. How many times do you think you can do that to Donphan? Once. From there on out, its autoloss if that is your strategy. Another thing this theorymon doesn't take into account is that most colorless types (ie, Chansey/Blissey) are weak to fighting...that is what hurts Steelix bad. That and the fact that Donphan will just just about every turn...So, is it just an autoloss? Absolutely not. It is hard, but if you know the matchup, its about 50/50. The key is to get Skuntank out ASAP with a stadium. If you can poison Donphan, his high retreat make that pretty rough. Plus, you can hit for 110 (after being reduced) and fully loaded, you can reduce MOST hits down to 40 and heal 20, meaning you will only have 20 damage on you next turn when you get hit for 40 again....and, you can return the favor by hitting for 110 (including poison). Its almost beneficial to hold off on Skuntank to use your opponents BTS, you can still swing pretty hard. But, once again, my point in pointing this out is this: its not techs that help this matchup, its your ability to quickly and consistently set up.
Fire Decks:
Ok, you can't win them all, lol. So, I'm just going to have to point out the obvious. If you are playing a "FIRE" deck, (meaning all of the main attackers are predominantly FIRE), is a 1-1 tech REALLY going to help? Techs HELP with bad matchups, they don't erase them. Will it HELP? Yes. Will it win it? No. Especially with only 90 HP like Glalie. Honestly, I've never tried Glalie, I just can't imagine any situation where it REALLY helps. Granted, if Erik Nance had it in his deck at Worlds, he may very well have been the World Champ right now. Yes, it will help it situations like that. But, the only card that absolutely ruins Steelix is Infernape 4 X. Yeah, so does Charizad, but its not popular enough to REALLY have to worry about. Yeah, Blaziken hurts and it is an uphill climb, but its winable. The thing about Infernape is 2 fold: first, he can gust. Second, he can OHKO Steelix....and that is saying a lot since Steelix can take a 200 HP shot. But, how much fire energy will this deck run since it is only a tech? And, is it worth teching against an SP Fire deck? No, not really. The key here is to keep a loaded bench and hope you can give your opponent what you want when gusted. But, every deck has some auto losses. I think across the board, Steelix may be the best deck since it doesn't have any BAD match ups, per se, except fire decks, which aren't popular. It doesn't have the Luxray/Donphan or Luxray/Gyarados matchup (meaning, a good, popular meta deck that it is an autoloss to).
Let me guess, TL,DR, right? I know. The whole point is this: don't spend all day teching to the point you kill your deck's ability to do what your deck is supposed to do, when this deck really only needs 2 techs IMO: Skuntank and Blissey. If you want to tech in a Ruins of Alph to counter Luxray, I think that is OK, since it is a VERY popular deck that can potentially give you trouble. It is one card that is reasonable you can get out (with Jirachi's power) and counters BDIF without affecting consistency.
So, to help more with that:
4-4 Steelix
4 Jirachi
2 Uxie
2-2 Blissey (or 2-1/1, which ever)
1 Skuntank
4 Engineer
4 Bebe
Xx Other draw supporters (Buck, Prof. Oak's Visit, etc, though I'm not a fan of PONT or more than 2 collector in this deck)
3 Expert Belt
3 Conductive Quarry (or 2 and 1 Ruins of Alph)
3 Energy Exchanger
4 Special Metal
4 DCE
Enough basic metal to ensure you get good amounts of energy in hand and you can counter the anti-special energy Pokemon (Scizor/Drapion)---->meaning, atleast 5.
Just a skeleton.
I would like to add a few things to that. My list I took to BR had 19 energy. Yes, too much, but that was what was working for me. Yes, there are times when I had tons of energy in my hand and nothing else but there where also times when I had no energy to discard for Steelix to energy stream. I figured I could run 25 and still wind up not having any energy and I was just approaching overkill too often. So, I've settled by taking my basic metal down to 2 which allows me to tech in a few more cards and allows me to even tech in different energy and not lose too much consistency of what energy I need since Steelix does need 3 colorless. I'm still not a fan of Glalie. I think if you are going to have to get use to cards (like a stage 1 or a lv x basic) there are a ton of better water techs. Glalie requires 3 cards to tech and does nothing except counter fire. There are plenty of other water pokemon that have low energy/high rewards. Palkia G seems interesting. hard to set up but a much better all around tech as it can 1 shot fire Pokemon, snipe the bench, and help remove damaged Pokemon off of your bench and get rid of your opponents bench as well. If you don't want that much set up, then Empoleon FB seems decent. Takes 2 energy, has a reasonable retreat and has 2 good attacks and can OHKO fire Pokemon. Regice has potential, but I don't like the 3 retreat. I can handle 2 pretty easy but I can't handle 3. I'm toying around with the idea of Infernape 4. Doesn't help with weakness but is a pretty good all round tech in the deck: free retreat, hits hard, has gusting power. One deck I didn't care about too much when I was putting my deck ideas together was Gyarados. But, I saw a BR report that had Gdos winning, so back to the drawing board! Electivire FB is great in this deck, but again, I don't like his 3 retreat. Infernape might let you gust enough to get around it. Just some ideas...
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