Vilegar - How Many Unown Q?

[spidersthatbite]

Alright, I’ve built Vilegar for regionals, and I was wondering: 1 Unown Q or 2? When I’ve tested 1, I’ve run into the problem of using it to retreat whatever I started with, leaving nothing to reduce the retreat cost of Spiritomb. When I use 2, however, I find myself more susceptible to donks. Additionally, taking out the second gives me room for another hand refresh Supporter, which I think would really help consistency. Suggestions anyone?

[DIZZtheWHIZZ]

How many warp energy do you run?

[spidersthatbite]

I run 3. I tried 4 for awhile, but I just didn't like the way it worked.

[DIZZtheWHIZZ]

1 Unown Q should be fine. I've had the same issues as you, and I've found 1 to be enough.

[gallade]

What if you run 2> warp energy, i think you would want more.

[YogiBear]

I think two just isn't enough in regards to warp energy, mainly because vileplume is a Target to be dragged up and spritomb is very susceptible to being locked up. I think one q is fine usually, you just need to be conservative with it and not attach it all Willy-nilly.

[Elite_4_Allen]

I run two unown Q and three warp energy and that works fine for me.

[Happiny13]

I play 2 warp energy and 2 unown Q and it's worked great. Q helps you get so many things out like Uxie X, quicking Vileplume, smeargle, etc,

[PhadedPhione]

1 Unown Q, 3 Warp Energy is my golden ratio.

[Vegeta ss4]

I play 2 warp energy and 2 unown Q and it's worked great. Q helps you get so many things out like Uxie X, quicking Vileplume, smeargle, etc,

If you don't waste space for uxie X you wouldn't need a 2nd Q

Vilegar just needs one...and 13 energy is about the play.
3 warp

[Politoed666]

Warp Energy is totally unnecessary, I get by very well with just two Qs. If you run three Warps, though, I'd say there's no reason to run two Qs.

On the other hand, you seem like you probably want to make your deck as inconsistent as possible, running three Warp and all, so dropping 3x Collector for three more Qs is always a very viable option.

4k post! 4,000 little tidbits of sarcasm and forcing people into bad deals. Love ya all.

[YogiBear]

You havent actually played vilegar have you? ^ Heavy Warp energy count is pretty much the only reason vilepume can be used successfully as a tech.

[Vegeta ss4]

You havent actually played vilegar have you? ^ Heavy Warp energy count is pretty much the only reason vilepume can be used successfully as a tech.

Im pretty sure the "Vile" in Vilegar was talking about Vileplume...have YOU ever played this?

[Politoed666]

You havent actually played vilegar have you? ^ Heavy Warp energy count is pretty much the only reason vilepume can be used successfully as a tech.

No, I've played VileGar as my main deck for months. I run two Q, attach run to Vileplume, and the other where I need it. One energy attachment to retreat doesn't hurt you. Oh, wait, that's what Warp Energy is, too. An energy attachment.

Problem #1 is that you think Vileplume is a "tech" in VileGar.

[Shino Bug Master]

I like running two Q, and i do run 2 Warp too. 2 Q is just so much safer, because when i need it early game, i cannot afford to have it prized or i lose my momentum, and its an easy card to get out of the hand, good use for those mid game collectors, and really the only negative is the chance of donk. I've actually had a benched Unown Q save me from 2 donks at States, and only been donked with lone Q once, so he has a good track record in my book xD

[YogiBear]

ok i mis spoke, what iwas intending to say is that heavy warp is what makes vileplume a playable SUPPORT pokemon. without warps its a sitting duck waiting to be dragged up. Eventhough q can be useful mid to late game if you need to darkness grace or something, the risk of starting with it is doubled i just dont think its worth it.

[Mazu]

I play 2 Warp, 1 Q and 4 Rescue. With 4 Rescue I don't always have to retreat my Vileplume, as long as I don't see anything playing around Rescue I can just watch it get knocked out and set up my bench in the meantime. I think 2 Warp is fine for getting Vileplume back to the bench or get out of a lock, but keeping that 4 Rescue count is MUCH more important. Imo. 1 Q is fine, usually my first Spritomb gets KOed anyways, so I don't need it until later (and I get to use twins<3). Getting donked with sole Q one time is one times too many. I also play 2 Rainbow energy just to piss off people trying to play around Fainting Spell/Rescue, gotta love it. <3

I would just try out different combinations of the amount of warp/Q and see what fits your metagame/playstyle. But play those 4 Rescue and some Rainbows, I absolutely love them.

[kwisdumb]

lol 0 warp energy
lol chatot.

[Politoed666]

lol 0 warp energy
lol chatot.

Nobody plays Chatot except Pooka.

[butlerforhire]

I've run this deck successfully through 2 States and a couple of Cities and I can attest to the fact that one Q is enough.

[Happiny13]

Really depends on what techs you run in my opinion.

[DIZZtheWHIZZ]

Oh, wait, that's what Warp Energy is, too. An energy attachment.

....an energy attachment that STAYS on the active Pokemon that it's attached to. HUGE difference. In some ways, you could look at Warp Energy as a sudo-Unown Q. And if you look at it that way, I'm running 4 Unown Q's! Why would I run a fifth! :tongue:

[yoyofsho16]

I run two Q, attach run to Vileplume, and the other where I need it. One energy attachment to retreat doesn't hurt you. Oh, wait, that's what Warp Energy is, too. An energy attachment.

So your argument for why Unown Q is BETTER is that Unown Q is the SAME? Okay... so you've proved nothing.

Unown Q = Unown Q + 1 energy to retreat.

Warp Energy = 1 energy to retreat. Unown Q requires 2 cards to work. Warp Energy requires 1.
Relying on Q is not very resourceful.

Not to mention Unown Q is the WORST start of ANY deck when alone. Worse than Azelf. That alone is why I would not be caught playing 2 of them.

---------- Post added 04/14/2011 at 08:47 AM ----------

Nobody plays Chatot except Pooka.

...but everyone plays Azelf.

[DarthPika]

How is this even a question. Do you REALLY want to add another 30HP HIGHLY donkable starter to your deck, for the sake of making 1 card have 1 less retreat cost? There are far better options for that slot.

[Politoed666]

So your argument for why Unown Q is BETTER is that Unown Q is the SAME? Okay... so you've proved nothing.

Unown Q = Unown Q + 1 energy to retreat.

Warp Energy = 1 energy to retreat. Unown Q requires 2 cards to work. Warp Energy requires 1.
Relying on Q is not very resourceful.

Not to mention Unown Q is the WORST start of ANY deck when alone. Worse than Azelf. That alone is why I would not be caught playing 2 of them.

When you run as many Basics as a good VileGar list, it's really not a problem. I've never suffered a lone Q start in 20+ games with the deck. And no, my argument for why it's better isn't that it's the same; it's the same and more versatile.

Early in the game, if I need to retreat my Tomb or what have you, I would far rather attach Q and use my energy attachment elsewhere. Later in the game, if I'm stuck with a Vileplume active, I'm going to be using an energy attachment either way. It doesn't matter whether it's Warp or something else.

Additionally, with Warp providing only Colorless energy, it's completely useless as an attachment to a Gengar without a Psychic. Yes, Q requires two cards to "work" when retreating Vileplume, but if you attach it early in the game, it's unlikely you'll be at a loss for an energy when your Plume gets Luring Flame'd. As I stated above, Warp Energy will always use your energy attachment. Q will use your energy attachment only when used on something with 2+ retreat. Pretty simple.

[Team Rockets Assassin]

honestly i don't run any qs just because that for myself, it becomes too donkable.
at least 6 of your basics are easily sableye donked and warp energies should do justice for your plumes
for this reason, i throw in a crobat g, not only could flash bite win you a game but the free retreat is perfect to pair with a rescued gengar.
in a drawn out game, you may need a few energies, i suggest you let palmer contribute to your causse

[butlerforhire]

Re: attaching Warp to Vileplume "not mattering"-- Warp remaining on Vileplume is huge if your opponent dragged it up with Luxray only to retreat and snipe the bench with Garchomp, leaving Vileplume damage-free. It means that if it gets Bright Looked again (2nd Luxray lv. X, Seeker, Dialga, etc.), you don't have to attach again if you have Q, only discard what is already there.

[Shino Bug Master]

Running the second Q is also nice, because when i need the first Q, i cannot afford to have it prized. I need access to some combination of 4 basics with a Collector, Oddish, Spiritomb, Q and Gastly. Havign to rely on Azelf to get a Q is rarely ideal, i actuall highly dislike usign Azelf wahtsoever. And multiple times, not having that Q means losing trainer lock. It also is just a nice card to be able to utilize multiple times. The only reaon you would play 1 over 2 is that donk chance, which is understandable, but really. This format, Oddish and Gastly are huge donk targets as is. Uxie/Azelf aren't even always safe. Q also has potential to be the basic that saves you from getting donked, so don't be hating on him.