After all these years I finally did it

[Crinus]

That was beat what I think is one of the hardest Zelda games of all time.

Zelda II

I could set for hours and never beat that game for years, eventually I got fed up with it and cheated a little bit by using some online dungeon maps for the great palace and that stupid left corner technique to beat dark link.

The only other 2 console games I never beat was Majoras Mask and Wind Waker, I was close to beating Wind Waker one point and I stopped playing and never resumed it, losing its save data at some point, Majoras Mask just drove me up the wall to the point of not calling it a real Zelda game.


praises?

[RB Golbat]

I was going to praise you, because beating Zelda II has been a dream of mine as well...


... but then I saw you diss Majora's Mask. You must replay it till you realize the beauty and masterpiece of it. Then you shall re-receive my praise.

[Crinus]

I just dont like Time themed games like that, especially one I am certain you will need a guide for.

most video footage I have seen of MM looked like their was hardly any fighting in it.

[ultimatedra]

I just dont like Time themed games like that, especially one I am certain you will need a guide for.

most video footage I have seen of MM looked like their was hardly any fighting in it.

This statement leads me to think you have never even played it before. How can you say you don't like a game when you haven't even played it?

[Crinus]

I bought MM on the N64 and played it, spent most of the time lost, I never attempted to play it ever again. Their was very little fighting for me in it. I didnt get too far into it though, to me while Zelda games is a good puzzle challenge, that was overboard and to me just unoriginal for a Zelda game. It was also rushed, meaning it took less than 5 years to produce, if you dont spend at least 6 on a Zelda game, history shows its not that great, exception might be Wind Waker though, but it ended up being something different than what people were asking for.

[ultimatedra]

I bought MM on the N64 and played it, spent most of the time lost, I never attempted to play it ever again. Their was very little fighting for me in it. I didnt get too far into it though, to me while Zelda games is a good puzzle challenge, that was overboard and to me just unoriginal for a Zelda game. It was also rushed, meaning it took less than 5 years to produce, if you dont spend at least 6 on a Zelda game, history shows its not that great, exception might be Wind Waker though, but it ended up being something different than what people were asking for.

Rushed?
Windwaker took 4 years to develop (1999-2003)
Twilight princess took 3 years to develop (2003-2006)
Skyward sword took 3 years to develop (2008-2011)

Point is - games VERY rarely take more than 4 years to develop.

[Crinus]

Where was the time to developed pulled from?

I know Windwaker took less time, but I thought TP was being worked on at the same time Windwaker was but at a slow pace, same with Skyward sword which I thought was being worked on since 2006.

I know they are working on the Zelda game for Wii-U as we speak.

[RB Golbat]

just unoriginal for a Zelda game,

What? Majora's Mask unoriginal? Have you played the same game we have? The Transformation masks were the most original thing (at that point in time) added to a Zelda game.

And in reality, if you play through the game now, and read everything the characters say, it's pretty hard to get lost.

[Karate_Guy]

Nintendo has yet to Confirm Working on a Zelda Wii-U title, they have only hinted at it. The Display shown at the wii-u's reveal was only a Tech Demo

[Crinus]

Nintendo as well as alot of other developers work on some games for a good while but their is not very much man power put into it until it is the main focus of the company. Like Kid Icarus Uprising for 3DS as a prime example.

Twilight Princess was most likely worked on before the WW release but was not a main focus, same for Skyward Sword.

While it is correct that it dont take more than 4 years to develop a game most of the time, a rough draft is often made and in not very focused on development. Sometimes they end up being scratched but then you see something of it implemented into that game or another game completely years later.

[InnocenceExorcist]

I think you are judging a game even years after you apparently last played it. The truth is, opinions of games can change. You are judging the game based on your experiences way back when.

You have yet to prove any points other than show everyone that you don't quite understand what a true Zelda experience is. Now if you played it within the past few months with an actual attempt to play the game instead of swinging a sword going going "argh i cut you all, where the bosses", then maybe I can respect any of your opinions.

Unoriginal? Ha. As Golbat said, the masks made this game stand out. It was the first game in the line to actually give meaning and use to the mask. Majora's Mask may be one of the best Zelda games. Maybe it wasn't as big as the others, but the puzzles were up to par, maybe even surpassing puzzles in the previous games. I remember trying to figure out Ikana Canyon. The whole dang thing. But I enjoyed every minute of it.

Getting lost if you are paying attention is pretty impossible. You know where you need to go and it's not hard to find out how to get there.

You clearly show your gaming immaturity by continuing to judge a game by your experiences years ago. It would be like looking at Wind Waker and saying it is a crappy game because of how it looks.

[Crinus]

my game maturity is higher than anyone here I would imagine.

if Majoras Mask was suppose to be so good, the theme of it would of found a way into future games which it didnt, Skyward Sword which is prequel to OOT does not even have ANYTHING similar to what was in MM which is a sequel to OOT. Like the Mask being the biggest example.

Most elite and some HC gamers will tell you time based games are a real drag, this doesnt mean a classic like Mario is bad. It be quite interesting to see what the AVGN would say about MM as hes pretty truthful in his reviews.

I was playing Zelda games on NES, SNES, OOT on N64, Gameboy, before Majoras Mask even came out.

Wind Waker while it has a cartoon look, is probably better than Twilight Princess, and TP is what Zelda fans thrived for in a Zelda game graphic wise.

[cabd]

my game maturity is higher than anyone here I would imagine.

if Majoras Mask was suppose to be so good, the theme of it would of found a way into future games which it didnt, Skyward Sword which is prequel to OOT does not even have ANYTHING similar to what was in MM which is a sequel to OOT. Like the Mask being the biggest example.

Most elite and some HC gamers will tell you time based games are a real drag, this doesnt mean a classic like Mario is bad. It be quite interesting to see what the AVGN would say about MM as hes pretty truthful in his reviews.

I was playing Zelda games on NES, SNES, OOT on N64, Gameboy, before Majoras Mask even came out.

Wind Waker while it has a cartoon look, is probably better than Twilight Princess, and TP is what Zelda fans thrived for in a Zelda game graphic wise.
So you played the old Zelda games before MM came out? Big woop. What's your point? Does the cartridge turn itself to less enjoyable mode if it detects the person playing is under the age of 20 or something? No? Then it doesn't matter.

Also, the first bolded statement amused me, compared to the rest of the stuff I bolded.

[Crinus]

When I write on the internet, I do not care to be grammatically correct.

If I were to write a novel or English essay, then perhaps.

[RB Golbat]

The reason the themes from Majora's Mask didn't carry over into other games was because Majora's Mask didn't occur in Hyrule, like almost every other game has (except for the Oracle games, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and Link's Awakeing), and no other game has visited Termina since.

[Crinus]

Yeah but in OOT their was the mask theme which is where it originated from.

[TheBisonKing]

my game maturity is higher than anyone here I would imagine.

You seem to have a very powerful imagination--that's all it may be, everything considered. How does one define "game maturity" anyway?

if Majoras Mask was suppose to be so good, the theme of it would of found a way into future games which it didnt, Skyward Sword which is prequel to OOT does not even have ANYTHING similar to what was in MM which is a sequel to OOT. Like the Mask being the biggest example.

Majora's Mask is praised for its uniqueness and originality in game design--especially towards story. Frankly, I feel like in a series such as the Legend of Zelda, where each game tries to bring something new to the table, it would be VERY immature to push Majora's Mask content into a new storyline. Not to mention Skyward Sword is, as you said a prequel. It's not based on Majora's Mask (plot-wise) but the other way around.

Most elite and some HC gamers will tell you time based games are a real drag, this doesnt mean a classic like Mario is bad. It be quite interesting to see what the AVGN would say about MM as hes pretty truthful in his reviews.

Why are the opinions of elite and hardcore gamers anymore relevant than anyone elses? More importantly, could you list off some of these gamers. The concept of proof is one that's considerably beneficial when stating baseless "facts".

I was playing Zelda games on NES, SNES, OOT on N64, Gameboy, before Majoras Mask even came out.

And?

Wind Waker while it has a cartoon look, is probably better than Twilight Princess, and TP is what Zelda fans thrived for in a Zelda game graphic wise.

"probably better" -- how?

[RB Golbat]

Yeah but in OOT their was the mask theme which is where it originated from.

The concept originated from there, not the overlying themes of Majora's Mask, which are much more complex than a simple "mask Theme".

[InnocenceExorcist]

Masks in OoT did nothing worth-while. The most entertaining things you could do was getting random facts from Gossip Stones.

The fact you played on older systems means ONLY one thing. It means you played on those systems.

And I still see you not supporting yourself.

---------- Post added 12/17/2011 at 05:17 PM ----------

And reviewers don't know jack squat. IGN gave MW3 a higher review than Skywards Sword because Skyward Sword was not as original as MW3 is. Reviews mean absolutely nothing.

[ultimatedra]

No attacking - continue debate.

[TheBisonKing]

Since the original debate of the thread revolved around Crinus's diss and why it was wrong, I'm not really sure what you expect the "debate" to be. At this point, having a debate concerning (what I believe you're intending it to be anyway) whether Majora's Mask is good or not isn't really the original conversation.

Crinus stated it wasn't a zelda game.

The key counters to this phrase (the phrase which people had a problem with and argued about):

In the title it states "Legend of Zelda"

It was created by Nintendo, making it official canon.

It is placed in the Legend of Zelda universe.

The "debate" on the topic of discussion brought up is cut-and-dry.


---
Also, though I respect you in telling us what we CAN'T post, telling us to do something: "continue debate" seems highly improper and a command.

[Shishio]

ITT Stop liking what I dont like

[BlastBurn]

I click this thread, read the OP, and it's talking about praises for beating a super hard game... I scroll down, and everyone is arguing! I feel this thread is pointless! Congrats on the win buddy, but please... What is the point of arguing? Can't you guys agree to disagree?
Posted with Mobile style...

[Crinus]

I click this thread, read the OP, and it's talking about praises for beating a super hard game... I scroll down, and everyone is arguing! I feel this thread is pointless! Congrats on the win buddy, but please... What is the point of arguing? Can't you guys agree to disagree?
Posted with Mobile style...

Yeah that seems to happen quite alot in alot of my post.

[Regis_Neo]

To be fair, I never thought MM was that great, it always felt like half a game to me personally, while trying to distract you with mask collecting. But still, it's ridiculously easy to beat, even with the whole 3 day constraint.

Besides, if you cheated using an online guide for Zelda 2, why does that make you feel so differently with MM?

[Crinus]

Well I didnt really use an online guide for nothing else but to find where the boss is in the great palace, I got sick of roaming that big place to never find the boss.

The place is so ridiculous you get a fairy and 1up link before getting to the boss.

[gallade]

MM is my favorite zelda game IMO.
When you first play it, it starts out really confusing, most people quit because of the time limit. The character depth and the theories that were developed from this game were phenomenal. Once you get the ocarina back, the game starts to have familiar aspects to it, but takes a lot more strategic thinking to complete.
The game is my favorite because of it's darkness IMO.

[Otaku]

This statement leads me to think you have never even played it before. How can you say you don't like a game when you haven't even played it?

Well, off the top of my head:



The game contains content I find objectionable. It doesn't matter if the underlying game mechanics are genius if I have to subject myself to material I consider harmful.
The game style is one I have never enjoyed before, even with similar games (prequels sequels) I have played, thus is seems unlikely that specific title will do something different enough to be worth my time (and possibly money if it isn't being loaned to me by someone).

Please note that I love The Legend of Zelda series as a whole, and of the games I have played Majora's Mask was phenomenal! I just have often been on the receiving end of ultimatedra's argument (from other people) and know that when phrased that way, it is flawed. Likewise I've had people try to extrapolate it from something like foods or gaming and then things really get messy (there are many behaviors I have never tried and hope never to try).


Now in Crinus case it seems odd since he states he enjoys so many other titles in the series, and I don't understand his complaint about combat, save oh yeah, the game starts you off as a Deku Scrub. Crinus did you ever get past that point? Once you do combat gets to the point of being like OoT, and as the game expands it goes beyond OoT as you enjoy learning how to fight as a Goron and Zora!


When I write on the internet, I do not care to be grammatically correct.

If I were to write a novel or English essay, then perhaps.

Your logic is flawed. It is common courtesy to attempt to use proper grammar and spelling. Not using it is considered an insult. If you cannot use it, that is fine. Your argument is the equivalent to someone who refuses to speak clearly unless giving a speech. So everyday life is frustrating for people interacting with such a person, because sometimes he mumbles, sometimes he whispers, sometimes he shouts... and in the end it almost always garbles what he says.

Please have common courtesy to attempt proper written communication. Most of us are more than willing to accept some online shorthand here or there, but abusing the language just because you don't want to capitalize a proper noun or use the correct punctuation makes your posts frustrating to read and sometimes even insulting.

On Topic: Congratulations on beating Zelda II, Crinus. I never did beat that one myself and when I sold off my games, it had to go too of course. Not sure exactly how far I made it, I just know I was nearing the end. I might have made it to Shadow Link once, but if I did I am sure I died to his stabbity rage.

Now... why the shame/hate for using guides? I recognize the accomplishment of a player who beats a game using only his own wits and exploration, but not everyone can take the time to do that or finds it enjoyable. Not surprisingly I fall into the camp of wanting to "enjoy" my game, and I regularly use guides. Most of this stems from hating to "miss" stuff and then having to play the game again just for that thing I missed and honestly being a bit of a perfectionist. "Simplistic" games where there isn't something to miss are usually the ones I can skip the guides for, or at least come back and use them later should I need them.

I know this is a common opinion, but I find it so odd: do the people who feel it is wrong to use a strategy guide or seek help with a tricky spot in a game find the idea of anything but self-education equally offensive? That if you had to have a teacher or tutor help you (at all) you "cheated" in your education? :lol:

[InnocenceExorcist]

How can you compare using a teacher to using a guide? They are two very unalike terms.

[Otaku]

Depends on the teacher, depends on the guide. You'll have to be more specific since quite frankly I was being generous: I should have compared it to guide versus textbook, but since guides are able to focus on a more specific set of circumstances, I upped the comparison.

I also was including help from actual people too, now that I think about it. I know I've had to have a friend "show me how to do that" before.

[Regis_Neo]

Eh, guides are more like cliff notes I'd think...not really a teacher or textbook.