Empoleon's Partners?

[yankeezone13]

Normally around this time, people are thinking about strategies for their upcoming regionals. Seeing as how I can't go this time :( , I though I might as well look towards some of the new cards coming out in Dark Explorers. Aside form the obvious hyped cards(Raikou, Darkrai, ect.) one card that I haven't seen mentioned a lot is Empoleon. What I'm wondering is what other cards would work well with Empoleon. I was thinking, seeing how its attack is the exactly the same as Jumpluffs, you wouldn't need many energy. Because of that, I could see it being used with Yanmega Prime. But anyway, what other cards do you think will work well with Empoleon?

[OCGKing]

Terrakion could work as a lightning counter in an Empoleon deck. I think it could also work with other low energy attackers like you mentioned, Yanmega. I also see Pichu in this deck obviously. There are 2 things that murder this deck in today's format, lightning weakness and lightning is the most dominant type in the format and the fact that it is a stage 2 which never seems to work in today's format.

[Raen]

I want to say that Empoleon is best on his own, but the simple truth is that Zekrom/Eels will eat it alive if you do that. So really, I see two main partners that could be used with Empoleon: Terrakion and Donphan Prime.

I personally like the Empoleon/Donphan combo. They both use very little energy, so I feel Donphan is a great partner for that reason alone. Donphan will likely be very powerful come Nationals as well. The two big decks with be Zoroark and Eels, and both are weak to Donphan, so I quite like the combo.

We will see, though.

[evil miltank]

empoleon and vileplume is pretty much the only way that this card is going to competitive. even then, its lighting weakness means its going to be taken down by a thundarus.

[machampion12]

You are probably going to have to run the leavanny that cancels your pokemon's weakness to survive most electric matchups.

[King Piplup]

I want to say that Empoleon is best on his own, but the simple truth is that Zekrom/Eels will eat it alive if you do that. So really, I see two main partners that could be used with Empoleon: Terrakion and Donphan Prime.

I personally like the Empoleon/Donphan combo. They both use very little energy, so I feel Donphan is a great partner for that reason alone. Donphan will likely be very powerful come Nationals as well. The two big decks with be Zoroark and Eels, and both are weak to Donphan, so I quite like the combo.

We will see, though.

This could play a lot like Donphan/Sammurott which worked very well. Honestly, I think I like Terrakion better.

[thepliskin5005]

leavanny would work great with empolieon. It stops weakness to your pokemon with energy attached to it.

[King Piplup]

leavanny would work great with empolieon. It stops weakness to your pokemon with energy attached to it.
He's also another stage 2 you have to get out...And keep from getting Catcher'd

[yankeezone13]

Ok, so I've tested a with some of the suggestions and and came to a few conclusions:
1. Vileplume works extremely well in the deck. The lock doesn't hurt the deck that much and it shuts down dark decks almost completely.
2. There has to be a secondary, quick attacker to use before Empoleon. Both Yanmega and Donphan work really well. Terrakeon is too slow to be a secondary attacker, but still works as a tech if you use Yanmega.
3. If Vileplume is in the deck, Donphan works great (see The Truth).
4. Although Pichu can help, I was only able to use it 1 or 2 times to my advantage.
Overall, I really like Empoleon with Vileplume and Donphan. That combination has worked best for me.

I have yet to test it with Leavanny and to be honest, I'm not planning on it. I'd rather not have another stage 2 that doesn't attack and could be easily catchered up.

[thepliskin5005]

No i think leavanny is still good with it because you can set up more than one and if they did catcher it i doubt they would knock it out right away. And you can just retreat it. And you can set up more.

[Raen]

Are people just entirely forgetting about Raikou?

Bench sitters are terrible. Vileplume and Leavanny are awful with Raikou in the format. Heck, they are awful now since they are Stage 2s.

[pokesam128]

DONPHAN i built it it swams and is beast

[Poke Trainer J]

Are people just entirely forgetting about Raikou?

Bench sitters are terrible. Vileplume and Leavanny are awful with Raikou in the format. Heck, they are awful now since they are Stage 2s.

Are you forgetting about how big :fighting: decks have gotten especially come Dark Explorers with Landorus/Terrakion, Donphan/Mewtwo EX/Rocky Helmet, and Quad Terrakion? They've made it to where Zekrom EX becomes horrible opening the game with and you NEVER want to bench it against your own Weakness. I almost see Raikou EX having the same problem as Zekrom EX, however...

Of course Skyarrow Bridge with Raikou EX makes it more playable than Zekrom EX against Terrakion cause with Zekrom EX you have to put up with wasting Switches and DCE's to retreat when you can just do it for free with Raikou EX. You still also need to Dynamotor x2 in order for Raikou EX to be effective at all which shouldn't be that hard with Level Ball and the drawpower in the format right now.

Infact Raikou EX will most likely replace Zekrom EX in the fast Eelektrik decks in the format because of the 1 retreat which you can make cost nothing with Skyarrow and it doesn't end up feeling like a terrible Basic to open the game with compared to Zekrom EX which struggles severely against Landorus, Terrakion, and Donphan all which have been dominating at States recently.

[Raen]

Are you forgetting about how big :fighting: decks have gotten especially come Dark Explorers with Landorus/Terrakion, Donphan/Mewtwo EX/Rocky Helmet, and Quad Terrakion? They've made it to where Zekrom EX becomes horrible opening the game with and you NEVER want to bench it against your own Weakness. I almost see Raikou EX having the same problem as Zekrom EX, however...

Of course Skyarrow Bridge with Raikou EX makes it more playable than Zekrom EX against Terrakion cause with Zekrom EX you have to put up with wasting Switches and DCE's to retreat when you can just do it for free with Raikou EX. You still also need to Dynamotor x2 in order for Raikou EX to be effective at all which shouldn't be that hard with Level Ball and the drawpower in the format right now.

Infact Raikou EX will most likely replace Zekrom EX in the fast Eelektrik decks in the format because of the 1 retreat which you can make cost nothing with Skyarrow and it doesn't end up feeling like a terrible Basic to open the game with compared to Zekrom EX which struggles severely against Landorus, Terrakion, and Donphan all which have been dominating at States recently.
You seem to have a VERY skewed view of the facts. Let's look at what won at the last week of States (where fighting decks were more prevelant than ever):

Celebi: 7 wins
Zekrom/Eelektrik: 6 wins
Durant: 1 win
Emboar/Magnezone: 1 win
Landorus/Terrakion: 1 win
Terrakion/Tornadus: 1 win
Typhlosion/Reshiram: 1 win

Notice something? Both Celebi and Zekrom still won the most states. Fighting decks only had 2 wins. That doesn't sound like dominating at States, now does it? In fact, it's not even close.

Lightning decks will be HUGE at Nats, and will be as strong as ever. Raikou EX will be there in force, and will dominate in it's own right.

[Poke Trainer J]

So are you implying that Zekrom EX is better than Raikou EX despite that it hasn't been released yet?

[Raen]

So are you implying that Zekrom EX is better than Raikou EX despite that it hasn't been released yet?
Umm. . . no? I said that Raikou is amazing. I never said anything about Zekrom EX, EVER. Heck, I've always hated Zekrom EX, and have never run it in anything. You seem to think that Zekrom/Eels is all about Zekrom EX. But it's not, at all. Heck, having gotten a 1st and a 4th place at States this year, I didn't even run Zekrom EX at all.

[Poke Trainer J]

ZekEels could do just fine with this line Post-Dark Explorers:

Pokemon (16)

2 Zekrom BW
2 Raikou EX
4-3 Eelektrik NV
2 Mewtwo EX
2 Tornadus EP
1 Cleffa

Kinda like Regular Tornadus better than it's EX cause it has better attacks plus it's less risky on the prize trade off. Strategy still follows, Eviolite on Mewtwo and X Ball like mad against Terrakion. Switch between Mewtwo and Raikou to bench snipe If necessary with Skyarrow out with a couple Switches here and there, maybe 2 and 3 Skyarrow.

Easier said than done when Raikou EX is a huge death target for Terrakion with Catcher, so it makes it much harder to counter when going up against Terrakion or even CMT which tech's in Terrakion with Prism to deal with ZekEels. So your best chances of covering for Raikou would be with Mewtwo and/or Tornadus unless they Catcher your Raikou and OHKO it with Retaliate or Land Crush.

empoleon and vileplume is pretty much the only way that this card is going to competitive. even then, its lighting weakness means its going to be taken down by a thundarus.

Donphan I think is Empoleon's best bet of becoming competitive being a Stage 1 especially with it's :lightning: Resistance with Exoskeleton, it's a much better partner than Samurott with Donphan in which it's damage output does 70+ for :colorless::colorless::colorless: when you only need 1 :water: and a bench to do major damage with Empoleon however the max amount of damage Empoleon caps out to is about 120 which is good however :fire: isn't big right now since it lacks the speed to keep up with the format.

[Raen]

I agree, Poke_Trainer, and I'm also very, very confused.

You seemed to be arguing against my initial point (that Raikou EX was good), but now seem to be agreeing with everything I said.

And it's confusing me.

[Poke Trainer J]

I didn't mean to confuse you, but yeah it seems like ZekEels with Raikou EX (no Zekrom EX) seems to be the next LuxChomp in HGSS-On Post-Dark Explorers. Terrakion will still pose a great challenge to it but it is by no means unplayable. Darkrai EX and Tornadus EX are the main popular chase cards in Japan right now, for some reason I still have my doubts about Raikou EX but I don't know why... :/

[jjkkl]

This could play a lot like Donphan/Sammurott which worked very well. Honestly, I think I like Terrakion better.

Actually, Piplup has a point here.

The biggest flaw to Donphan / Samurott was a lack of sufficient draw power to swarm. Empoleon mitigates that problem with its built in mini-draw, which can lead to alot of Donphans.

I can definitely see something like Empoleon / Terrakion with Pluspowers or Empoleon / Donphan with Pluspowers becoming a viable play.

The biggest challenge, I argue, are the energy lines. Rainbow isn't really feasible when Donphan only escapes a Strong Volt by 10 damage, and Empoleon's cost is water. In a clutch situation where you need a certain type of energy, I can see the energy lines messing a player up. If Empoleon's attack required a colourless energy, then yeah, it would be a competitive deck. But its current costs are incongruous with a Donphan swarm strategy.

I guess you can run an energy search, but that compromises the unavoidable consistency that all Stage 2 decks in this format needs. There obviously needs to be a Claydol in this format. Srsly.

[pokesam128]

Actually, Piplup has a point here.

The biggest flaw to Donphan / Samurott was a lack of sufficient draw power to swarm. Empoleon mitigates that problem with its built in mini-draw, which can lead to alot of Donphans.

I can definitely see something like Empoleon / Terrakion with Pluspowers or Empoleon / Donphan with Pluspowers becoming a viable play.

The biggest challenge, I argue, are the energy lines. Rainbow isn't really feasible when Donphan only escapes a Strong Volt by 10 damage, and Empoleon's cost is water. In a clutch situation where you need a certain type of energy, I can see the energy lines messing a player up. If Empoleon's attack required a colourless energy, then yeah, it would be a competitive deck. But its current costs are incongruous with a Donphan swarm strategy.

I guess you can run an energy search, but that compromises the unavoidable consistency that all Stage 2 decks in this format needs. There obviously needs to be a Claydol in this format. Srsly.

i built it and it swarms like crazy as long as u can get donphans u beat zeel and i just run 4 water and 4 fighting and 3 super rod and it helps like crazy