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View Full Version : YJ06's Great Lake Regional Report



YoungJohn06
05/15/2005, 08:30 PM
Well I left with the Davis' family (Steven, Jake, Brandon and James) at about 5:45 am to get there. Somewhere along the way, like around 7-7:30 we get a flat tire... sucktastic. James got out and replaced it with a spare we went to find a place that would put on a better tire as this one wasn't that great. We found a Marathon full service station and they fixed it for us in like 10 minutes. Cool, we're not running too late.

We got there at about 9:30 I think and I met up with Croconaw88 and got him the cards he needs for his deck. Steve Gillette walks in and I get the stuff he needs for his deck as well. I decided to play Matrix today (Metagross, Steelix, Cargo, Milotic). Same thing for 4 of my friends. Me, Steve Gillette, James, Jake and Steven Davis all played Matrix.

I'm not going to give out the exact decklist, if someone wants it pm me and I might send it to you. I really don't remember the exact one I played as I've been tinkering with it since then. Anyway onto the report.

Round 1: Dunno the name, Togetic/EM Sceptile was his deck.

I won this fairly easily, he really didn't get set up. He got out one Togetic which I OHKOed with Metagross. The Sceptile landed in the play area too late to do anything.

1-0

Round 2: Elizabeth Reed, Rock Lock.

I start with a Slugma... joy. I pulled out of it early tho, luckily. We both got kinda crap starts but it got better for both later. Mid game it's REALLY close 4-3 her lead. However I have by far the better field position. I have a steelix 4 metal 2 dark 1 rainbow with a metagross and another onix on bench. She has active t-tar 80 benched sparce candied pidgeot and candied amphy. I have a rock in my hand... 4-3 prize count. I ask judge how much time is left since I knew it was running low. I'm told that there is just under 5 minutes left. It's my opponents turn I'm just waiting to drop the ATM rock and have the game completely in my favor and oops immediately after I'm told a little under 5 minutes time is called... I'm like umm what the heck. So I lose on one prize... I don't have any hard feelings toward Elizabeth, she's a good player and what not she wasn't intending on stalling. I just wish I would have been told the correct time, ehh I figure what ever it happens they're human.

1-1

Round 3: Some kid with Dark Slowking

He mulligans like 5 times an starts with a Wobbuffet. I get a decent start, he doesn't get a slowpoke in forever. He managed to take down one Steelix but it got to be too much later on when he was running out of tools and I was healing like mad. I also appreciated the fact that he was forgetting to do cunning... especially AFTER I smoothed over lol. After I realized he'd do this, I always did Smooth over immediately, then did as much as I could or should for the turn after words to get his mind off of the top of my deck and it worked about 50% of the time.

2-1

Round 4: Justin Williams with Ludicargo/shiftry.

This is a very good player and a friend of mine. It seems we ALWAYS have to play and our games come down to the wire. We both get decent set ups. I went up on prizes but he POWed up my cargo which left me hurting all game. I eventually let my bench get smaller as I tanked steelix so I could get less damage on me. I had a Steelix with 4 dark and 4 metal and 1 rainbow by the closing bit of time. It was 3-3 Prizes and I know time is getting low again. I have the tanked steelix and a metagross out in play with feebas/tic/candy in hand. So I'm taking like 40-50 a turn and dealing 100 OHKOing all ludis. I call for time to see how much is left. I was told 10 minutes and OOPS guess what, judge cannot tell the proper time again. About a minute later there is a THREE minute time announcement made... soooo I get screwed by time again and he drew his prize just as time was called for game. He didn't purposely do this tho, he was trying to play fast once he heard there was 3 minutes left. Good game Justin, it's always close with you.

2-2

Round 5: someone with ludicargo.

I get crap start of the year with slugma start no energy swoop for sparce tvr no energy. No energy til turn 3, and I just don't draw crap. So I get crushed

2-3

Round 6: Dragtrode.

I got up kinda slow with a crap start and figured I was toast cause he had a decent start. However late game I just trampled him with a tanked Steelix. GG

3-3

Soooooo I go 3-3 and miss the cut obviously. I was pretty much 2 turns away from making the top cut.

Props:

-To my friend Jason for getting the trip to worlds in 15+ with dragtrode!!!
-To Steven Davis for pwning the 11-14 like usual and getting his trip to worlds.
-To the Gillettes for giving everyone food after the lunch break that was supposed to happen never did.
-Ajay and the cleveland crew for being fun to be around.
-James Davis for taking us to the tournament
-Steve Gillette for taking me home.

Slops:

-The mirrors on the ceiling that got you an AUTO game loss if you looked up EVER because you could see your opponents hand... what crap and then they play the top cut under these mirrors. HOW SMART!
-To the judges and their horrible ability to tell time which pretty much screwed me. Game speed changes dramatically when there's 10 minutes and 3 minutes left.
-The year and a half that the tournament took and the hour+ late start we had. In between rounds took way too long
- Dave Schwimmer for being rude to the Gillettes when they gave out a CRAP LOAD OF FOOD for FREE to ANYONE who was hungry to help people from getting SICK since there was NO LUNCH BREAK IN THIS VERY TIME CONSUMING EVENT. They went through about 3 loafs of bread, crap load of lunchmeat and other stuff. How do you get ticked at someone for keeping the younger kids and older ones even at that from getting sick from not eating? Then he accuses them of selling the food which they did not do. =\.
- The less than knowlagable million people staffing the event. One of the so called judges went over for a ruling question and said let me go get someone else I don't know much about this game.. how is that a regional level judge?

All in all... I had fun, but this wasn't that great of a regional IMO. Many people got jacked by the time crap. Three minute time calls should never be made like they were in a couple of rounds because it promotes stalling. Being with my friends made it a fun event, but other than that it wasn't amazing. I hope my other regional experiences are better... should be as long as the people running it can tell time. :smile:

Ice'Cold
05/15/2005, 08:35 PM
I hear about the mirrors, sounds fun. That was harsh, though we did get a game loss if we yelled the word "Pooka!"

Absolution
05/15/2005, 09:34 PM
nice job YJ, Steve ended up beating me in the last round of swiss with his Matrix, down to the wire as well, he got that final prize on me though. It's a real shame he didn't get t16 with that 4-2. Great tourney, great deck, we'll have another awesome/crappy game in the future I'm sure, lol.

farbsman
05/15/2005, 10:16 PM
-The mirrors on the ceiling that got you an AUTO game loss if you looked up EVER because you could see your opponents hand... what crap and then they play the top cut under these mirrors. HOW SMART!
-To the judges and their horrible ability to tell time which pretty much screwed me. Game speed changes dramatically when there's 10 minutes and 3 minutes left.
-The year and a half that the tournament took and the hour+ late start we had. In between rounds took way too long
- Dave Schwimmer for being rude to the Gillettes when they gave out a CRAP LOAD OF FOOD for FREE to ANYONE who was hungry to help people from getting SICK since there was NO LUNCH BREAK IN THIS VERY TIME CONSUMING EVENT. They went through about 3 loafs of bread, crap load of lunchmeat and other stuff. How do you get ticked at someone for keeping the younger kids and older ones even at that from getting sick from not eating? Then he accuses them of selling the food which they did not do. =\.
- The less than knowlagable million people staffing the event. One of the so called judges went over for a ruling question and said let me go get someone else I don't know much about this game.. how is that a regional level judge?



I wanted to set the record straight.

-So why was an auto game loss for obvious cheating a problem? We checked it ahead of time, it was really obvious if you looked up to see your opponents hand. Why would you need to look up during a match if everything is on the table in front of you?

-The time thing is crap, every round the judges started stop watches at the same time. Dave couldn't figure out where this complaint was coming from either.

-We started late? Where was there a posted start time? Registration ended at 11:00 and we started at 11:35. First results were entered into the TMS program for the first round at 11:48:31am (TMS records when results are entered into the TRN file) Pokemon-tcg website has the latest time posted that you could show up and get in, not when the tournament started.

-Skipping this one because I don't know anything about this.

-Not everyone in a Staff shirt at the event was a judge. Kinda like not everyone helping at worlds was a judge. There were only 6 judges. Three people there were only there to take results, two of those 3 people just there to take results have never played pokemon. You don't have to know how to play in order to highlight a name and ask for initials. These people that only were taking results always were able to get a judge over to the table. Amazing how rude some people were to these people that were only there to help keep the judges from having to ask for results so they were available to answer questions.

Cyrus
05/15/2005, 10:35 PM
The things about time and Dave I know nothing about. However I'm lost and won on two of John's issues when seen laid out, point by point. I don't know how much I'm warranted to speak on this issue, since I wasn't attending the event, but here's how I call it:

-First off, a game loss is way too harsh for something that is NOT apparent cheating, like Farbsman says it is. In every age division, at every skill level, in every pokemon-playing state, there is at least one person who looks up/looks down/flicks his or her cards/eyes something on the table...habits usually created by being nervous. Perhaps someone from the staff should have checked out Hotel Seagate to make sure nothing could be used for cheating. It's the staff's fault here, because giving game losses on nervousness is going against Spirit of the Game.

-Also like Farbsman says, however, people should not have taken their anger out on those who are helping with the event. They were obviously asked to just help mark things down and send them up to the computers, not explain complex rulings or situations.

The other three contentions I know nothing about, and have heard only one side of the story on. But oh well, glad to see your deck performed well in most of its winning games! =)

farbsman
05/15/2005, 10:53 PM
-First off, a game loss is way too harsh for something that is NOT apparent cheating, like Farbsman says it is. In every age division, at every skill level, in every pokemon-playing state, there is at least one person who looks up/looks down/flicks his or her cards/eyes something on the table...habits usually created by being nervous. Perhaps someone from the staff should have checked out Hotel Seagate to make sure nothing could be used for cheating. It's the staff's fault here, because giving game losses on nervousness is going against Spirit of the Game.


Gotta clear this up, you couldn't just look up and see your opponents hand in the mirrors, you had to take your head and almost bend it all the way back to see your opponents deck. Ceiling I believe was 10-12 foot high. You really had to bend to see you and your opponent in them. Very obvious cheating. Trust me. Dave was asked his opinion on this and he suggested the game loss.

Tyranitar666
05/16/2005, 01:35 AM
Ok, here are my views on everything.

First off, the mirror issue. Slops to those running the event for not having found a better location to hold a tournament in. An obvious issue like this should not have been overlooked. None the less, I do feel that the game loss warning is good for one reason. First off, the pre warned seriousness of the cheating is useful to deter it. Did anyone actually get the game loss? The threat is effective enough to likely deter the use of mirrors to cheat. I have at least some confidence that judges discretion here could be used in each incident, and that if it is likely someone is not cheating, maybe it would not have been enforced. BUT I would have prefered to disclaimer that such action COULD result in disqualification. It is much more fair and holds all parties involved to less predetermined actions.

The time issue WAS an issue. I did witness multiple issues of subpar to flat out bad time callings. It seemed off during my game with Drew ( I won, but it seemed like more time was left on the clock than we were told ) and judges often refused to say more than " under 5 minutes " which is not as informative as needed at times. There was no visible timer like at many events as well. I am 100% aware of the dislike betweenYJ and Derek here, and I like to think I am on good terms with both sides here, but I see some credence to some of Johns issues here.

As for the tournament time. It took awhile. The main issue that kept this taking so long was the extended time due to deck checks,a nd sudden death. The overall time of the event seemed a bit slow but far from offensive to me. I don't think this is much of an issue. The tournament did get off to a slightly slow start but I think every event I have been to has done the same.

As for Dave and the Gillettes. I am aware they got yelled at for giving out free food? Now personally I enjoyed the free food, as I am pretty poor, and I think thatw as kinda lame. I am not sure who commented to them, or anything about it, but I am aware it happened.

The main issue I have was with the lack of a lunch break. I did not eat breakfast at all, and playing 6 rounds straight on an empty stomach is a bit lame. I did it just fine, but when we than get a 30 minute dinner break where there are few restaurants nearby ( Subway was closed by that time, the closest restaurant...the one upstairs we went to was pricey and slow ) and seeing how I had to wait for them to collect my deck for deck check prior to t16, I had very minimal chance to eat. I had to wait until after the tournament to have time to. This was my MAJOR complaint about the day, and I am pretty good without any food, but I think a lunch break, or at least an extended dinner break ( by the time we left the tables with the deck checks I had around 20 minutes to walk to a restaurant, order, eat, pay and walk back before t16 occured and I could not risk being late )

Overall, I think it could be run a bit smoother, but I didn't think it was poorly run either. Plus the door prizes were awesome, and I saw no complaints of bad rulings either. Plus, look at SoCal's event that got butchered. This one went off pretty smoothly, along floor rules, and hadno major complications. I wouldn't be too worked up over it. If anything, I'd like to see a longer time in swiss.

PokeWisconsin
05/16/2005, 01:43 AM
I'm a little suprised with Dave for being so hard on them. Schwimmer: you need to give players time to eat during these all day events! I know you want to keep things moving along but you need to understand that 10 hours of playing Pokemon will wear you out! Slops!

Moss Factor
05/16/2005, 03:04 AM
I thought the event was ran extremely professionally, especially compared to when the MTG guys would run it. They didn't seem to give two craps about what was going on, and often couldn't settle rulings because nobody running the event played the game. We had someone from Nintendo CORPORATE at a regional level event! Wake up people, we're heads and tails above where we were.

Sure, we didn't get much time to eat. I would have rather dropped my deck off after round 6 with Matt or someone and taken off. However, since about six or so of us from the top16 were coming down with our food, which we got "to go" from the resturaunt in the hotel (so its not like we could have gotten it any faster from anywhere), they let us get back down and actually eat it before the top 16 started. So that was nice.

I'm just really glad that Schwimmer finally cracked and let AJ and I have that invite to worlds. *wakes up from amazing dream and faces his grim reality* awwww no invite :'(

annisarich
05/16/2005, 05:36 AM
I think PUI should invite Aj and Moss to worlds to entertain the kids in the little sibblings room near the main event hall at worlds.
This would be hands down better than the giant two story Pikachu in the parking lot of last years event.

MSB 5
05/16/2005, 06:35 AM
nice report YJ i would have been thar if the car drive was shorter :frown: its nice to see Steven and Jason won trips already

YoungJohn06
05/16/2005, 07:29 AM
I wanted to set the record straight.

-So why was an auto game loss for obvious cheating a problem? We checked it ahead of time, it was really obvious if you looked up to see your opponents hand. Why would you need to look up during a match if everything is on the table in front of you?

-The time thing is crap, every round the judges started stop watches at the same time. Dave couldn't figure out where this complaint was coming from either.

-We started late? Where was there a posted start time? Registration ended at 11:00 and we started at 11:35. First results were entered into the TMS program for the first round at 11:48:31am (TMS records when results are entered into the TRN file) Pokemon-tcg website has the latest time posted that you could show up and get in, not when the tournament started.

-Skipping this one because I don't know anything about this.

-Not everyone in a Staff shirt at the event was a judge. Kinda like not everyone helping at worlds was a judge. There were only 6 judges. Three people there were only there to take results, two of those 3 people just there to take results have never played pokemon. You don't have to know how to play in order to highlight a name and ask for initials. These people that only were taking results always were able to get a judge over to the table. Amazing how rude some people were to these people that were only there to help keep the judges from having to ask for results so they were available to answer questions.

I haven't got a problem if the player was actually doing it, yes I am aware that it didn't happen. I for one tho, often do look up during matches normally because I'm trying to relax and stretch or something. I know of a lot of people who also do this. I didn't/couldn't do it in fear of a game loss and a lot of times it is just a nervous habbit that people do.

If the judges started watches at the same time how come no one knew what the real time was then? Had you been around your event more maybe you'd have actually seen this.

Well when they're actually calling out judge we need a ruling and someone for scores comes over you'd get a little frustrated too. Time or something should have been added on or something. Maybe you could have set something up to help the judges tell if someone needed a match report or a rulings question?

I know the event could have gone a lot worse, but somethings really could have gone better. The biggest issues I had was the time and lunch issue. The mirrors were just horrible planning/lack of knowlage on the venue on your part.



I agree with you Rich, they're much more entertaining, for the younger and older kids. :smile:

Thanx MSB, too bad you couldn't go.

Hiro
05/16/2005, 09:36 AM
Time for my two cents. We all knew it was coming.

I have a few problems with the event

1. The judges, or event staff, that had no idea how to play the game. It's not the fact that they were there, but I myself never heard anyone say that there were staff that didnít' know how to play the game; I think if I knew, then I wouldn't had been so mad. If there was an announcement, I missed it, and that seems unlikely due to the fact that I was in the main room most of the time, and even if I wasnít, from the corridor, I was able to hear things. This lead to a problem, around round 3 or 4 can't remember. I had a ruling question, I raised my hand and looked around, I saw one of the event staffers look at me, and I yelled judge, so he came over. I started my question when he said he didn't know anything about this game, and didn't know how to judge it, and he would get a real judge. So he had to go and find a real judge, which took a few min.
Now it's not the fact that he didn't know, it's that I yelled judge, and he still came over, and this took even more time, and it was less the 10 min's left in that round as well. So time was an issue.

2. Next problem, time.
I think someone needs the shell out a little money and get a big digital clock, now this is a very good idea, for both sides, the players and the judges. For the players, they can just look and see how much time is left, and no0t spend more of it asking the judge. And for the judges, they won't be bothered by players who just want to know the time. Plus people, who don't know the time, won't screw with playerís minds. The amount of time left in a round, does change how people play.

3. Stalling. Now I never ran into it myself, but my friends did. When people hear that it is 5 minís left, some players slow down, take even more time, and they look as if they are playing right, but still, they take forever, but this only happens when they are ahead in prizes, so when time is called, they win. But if they are behind, they will go fast. Now this idea is from John, but if time is called in a game, the game should get 5 more turns.

4. FOOD.
Now yes, they did have a food chart, well not a chart, someone at a table with food, but it was over expensive, and for someone who doesn't have a lot of money (which I really am happy with PUI for making the States and Regionals and stuff free) thereís a difference from that and the at dollar menu at Wendy's. But no lunch break, man that was hard, and I thank the Gillette's for bringing food. Now I have a problem, at Indy state we were told that we were not given a lunch break because of the late start, noon, well this was 11, so my question is, how early do these events have to start to get a lunch break? 9 am? 8 am?

5. Don't know how to title this.
Well after top 16 was told, I was talking to the mother of a boy who was in the top of the 10 and under group, at this point I really didn't know the prizes, so we went to a judge(one I knew that knew the game, I have seen him in tourneys before), and asked the prizes. He said top 2 get trips to worlds, and the n3and 4 get just invites. Well I was a bit more then confused. I thought there were no invites, its trips or nothing. I then asked, what about the scholarships? The guys said, only top two get them. Now I knew that top four got them, I just didn't know how much. I then asked the head judge, and he didn't know, and Derek or Dave was no where in sight to ask, so the mother was left unanswered.

So all in all, an ok day. Three friends won trips to worlds, all in different age groups too, and I got to hang out with my friends. Although the lack of props from YJ has made me sad....lol jk.

Now to find a way down to Tennessee for that Regional.

YoungJohn06
05/16/2005, 09:41 AM
Sorry, lol I meant you in the Cleveland crew too =p yes I know you're not from cleveland but I don't care lol.

Hiro
05/16/2005, 09:50 AM
yes John, Columbus and Cleveland are so close together...lol at least we had fun.

Moss Factor
05/16/2005, 01:05 PM
I think PUI should invite Aj and Moss to worlds to entertain the kids in the little sibblings room near the main event hall at worlds.
This would be hands down better than the giant two story Pikachu in the parking lot of last years event.He speaks the truth! The only reason I can see Dave WOULDN'T let AJ and I have invites is he would be afraid that there wouldn't be enough room after thousands of ladies and fans RUSHED the world's arena to ideally get a shred of clothing/autograph/lock of hair/phone number. This would obviously cause so much of a disturbance that playing would be difficult, but I still think it'd be possible!

I don't want to say I'll bribe you for an invite, but lets just say if someone just "happened" to put TWO sugar cubes in your coffee at worlds insteaed of the standard one, I wouldn't be surprised :smile:

Professor Dav
05/16/2005, 01:05 PM
- Dave Schwimmer for being rude to the Gillettes when they gave out a CRAP LOAD OF FOOD for FREE to ANYONE who was hungry to help people from getting SICK since there was NO LUNCH BREAK IN THIS VERY TIME CONSUMING EVENT. They went through about 3 loafs of bread, crap load of lunchmeat and other stuff. How do you get ticked at someone for keeping the younger kids and older ones even at that from getting sick from not eating? Then he accuses them of selling the food which they did not do. =\.

The only rudeness I witnessed at this event originated from your camp YoungJohn [not you specifically, but, from those in your crew.] All of the other participants and spectators at this event appeared to have a very good time, with very few issues at all.

The hotel was gracious enough to have offered food at a very reasonable price for a large portion of the day. There was a restaurant on the top floor of the hotel, and a subway just over a block away. AJ didn't seem to have a problem finding time to go get himself lunch, and I saw plenty of others doing the same.

The event was not that time consuming, as it took almost exactly the same amount of time as the other regionals run on Saturday.

Whether or not your group, and the Gillettes, felt I was rude to them is up to you to interpret. It was reported to me from multiple sources that they were selling food. This is completely unacceptable for a number of reasons, and they were confronted on this point. I easily could have asked them to close up their cooler and take it elsewhere, but I took them at their word when they told me they were not selling food, and I said, "That's fine then, as long as you aren't selling it, you can do whatever you please."

If assuring that health codes and laws are followed at PUI sponsored events is rude, then, I'm rude.

Prof. Dav

Professor Dav
05/16/2005, 01:12 PM
As for Dave and the Gillettes. I am aware they got yelled at for giving out free food? Now personally I enjoyed the free food, as I am pretty poor, and I think thatw as kinda lame. I am not sure who commented to them, or anything about it, but I am aware it happened.

No one got yelled at.

All I did was approach them, and tell them that I was hearing reports of them selling food, and that if they were, that was unacceptable for a number of reasons. Margret responded that they were perfectly aware of the issues, and assured me that they were not selling food, but giving it away. I took them at thier word, and told them that if that were the case, there was no issue.

You are all free to formulate your opinions of what happened based upon what you hear. I can't make you believe anything you don't want to believe. I know what happened, and the Gillettes know what happened. There were certainly a number of people at the table when I spoke to them, and they are free to make thier own assessments of what happened there as well.

Prof. Dav

YoungJohn06
05/16/2005, 01:22 PM
The only rudeness I witnessed at this event originated from your camp YoungJohn [not you specifically, but, from those in your crew.] All of the other participants and spectators at this event appeared to have a very good time, with very few issues at all.

The hotel was gracious enough to have offered food at a very reasonable price for a large portion of the day. There was a restaurant on the top floor of the hotel, and a subway just over a block away. AJ didn't seem to have a problem finding time to go get himself lunch, and I saw plenty of others doing the same.

The event was not that time consuming, as it took almost exactly the same amount of time as the other regionals run on Saturday.

Whether or not your group, and the Gillettes, felt I was rude to them is up to you to interpret. It was reported to me from multiple sources that they were selling food. This is completely unacceptable for a number of reasons, and they were confronted on this point. I easily could have asked them to close up their cooler and take it elsewhere, but I took them at their word when they told me they were not selling food, and I said, "That's fine then, as long as you aren't selling it, you can do whatever you please."

If assuring that health codes and laws are followed at PUI sponsored events is rude, then, I'm rude.

Prof. Dav

How were we rude? I did not see anything from anyone I was with being rude. We may have questioned a few things like the time calls, but I don't see how that's rude. I'm used to spending the majority of my day at pokemon events. However I am not used to that much time inbetween rounds and from the deck registration closing to the start of the tournament. I heard from a woman that was there from MI at her and her kids first event ever that she thought you got rude with them over it. I didn't witness it my self but from everyone that did witness it, I've got more reason to believe all those people than you. No offense meant there.

Sceptile7990
05/16/2005, 01:57 PM
Farbsman: When I ask the judge how much time left in a round, ROUND 1 at that. He says more than 5, less than 10 "proly about 7"

1 min later: 3 MIN LEFT
does this not encourage stalling?


The way the Gillettes were treated about giving out food was rediculous IMO. Especially with no lunch break. Shouldnt the Gillettes be asked first if they were selling it first instead of going by others words?
From what I hear the conversation was a bit different.

With the timing and all, dang, a couple tech POW! Time Extensions woulda been good=/

SuperWooper
05/16/2005, 02:17 PM
I guess complaining won't do any good now that the event is over. Note that I'm not accusing anyone of complaining; it's just a statement. The mirrors on the wall was huge, IMO. As Fulop already pointed out, you need the venue changed if that's going to happen again. I also believe it was not the greatest choice to play the Top 16 under the mirrors. I'm pretty sure that could have been avoided, but I wasn't there. I do hope that the next event in OH is run so that there's less controversy, because we know what happens when there's controversy in OH. =(

On the plus side, 3-3, while definitely not up to your usual standard, YJ, is probably disappointing to you, but OH is one of the most competitive states in the country, and 3-3 there is an accomplishment. Probably not that much of a confidence-booster, but hey, you got some tough calls thrown at you. I know you'll do better when you come visit us East Coasters in Philly on June 4th. I'll see you there and hopefully we'll meet up in the Top 16. =)

'Grats, you deserve it. :thumb:
~Wooper

SomethingElse
05/16/2005, 02:18 PM
ok, i hate to tell you guys, but people make mistakes! someone said the time wrong once, and they announced within the minute the mistake, people, this happens! Get over the mistake, it happens from time to time...Also, as Dave said, there were reports of the gilette's selling food which isn't allowed...the problem with mirrors? The hotel said nothing about the mirrors to Derek and his staff, how is he supposed to know this is going to happen? Had the Gilette's had this problem, would you have complained? No. The judges that didn't know rulings...I only know 2 there that didn't, they were wivs (or girlfriend) of people on the staff...They were there to report what happens. When you have to report, you call a judge, so when Hiro called judge, they didn't know if they were done or needed a "ruling" judge, as it was ar worlds. Were they're complains at worlds? No. So why would you complain now? About the complaints at time. As Dav said, they all ended around the same time, the one in Wisconsin i hear ended later. Yet you still complain? Derek had some minor problems with pairings, printing up wrong pairings, someone not showing in the standings, etc. Stalling? Stalling always happened, and always will happen. It is near impossible to stop stalling in Pokemon. The complaint about no lunch break...We we're done with the first around 12:15-12:30....Why would we do 1 round then lunch break? That's stupid, just eat before the tournament, 11:00 isn't that early of a lunch, and Derek never has lunch breaks. There wasn't one at states, cities, or anything else he has (recently) ran. And hiro, please send me more of those hilarious pm's like before...I would love to have some more laughs

edit: Also, wherever they would've put all 25+ people that made the cut, there would've been mirrors....They had to put on either side so that people could go in between and enter, along with talk/play in side events...So no matter where they palyed they had mirrors, had they palyed on the other side, they would've made all the parents upset, and given you guys more complaints.

Sceptile7990
05/16/2005, 02:30 PM
Oh and Foisey I should probably specify that the comment about being stalled is not a shot at you. Just dont want you to misinterpret that.

YoungJohn06
05/16/2005, 02:35 PM
ok, i hate to tell you guys, but people make mistakes! someone said the time wrong once, and they announced within the minute the mistake, people, this happens! Get over the mistake, it happens from time to time...Also, as Dave said, there were reports of the gilette's selling food which isn't allowed...the problem with mirrors? The hotel said nothing about the mirrors to Derek and his staff, how is he supposed to know this is going to happen? Had the Gilette's had this problem, would you have complained? No. The judges that didn't know rulings...I only know 2 there that didn't, they were wivs (or girlfriend) of people on the staff...They were there to report what happens. When you have to report, you call a judge, so when Hiro called judge, they didn't know if they were done or needed a "ruling" judge, as it was ar worlds. Were they're complains at worlds? No. So why would you complain now? About the complaints at time. As Dav said, they all ended around the same time, the one in Wisconsin i hear ended later. Yet you still complain? Derek had some minor problems with pairings, printing up wrong pairings, someone not showing in the standings, etc. Stalling? Stalling always happened, and always will happen. It is near impossible to stop stalling in Pokemon. The complaint about no lunch break...We we're done with the first around 12:15-12:30....Why would we do 1 round then lunch break? That's stupid, just eat before the tournament, 11:00 isn't that early of a lunch, and Derek never has lunch breaks. There wasn't one at states, cities, or anything else he has (recently) ran. And hiro, please send me more of those hilarious pm's like before...I would love to have some more laughs

edit: Also, wherever they would've put all 25+ people that made the cut, there would've been mirrors....They had to put on either side so that people could go in between and enter, along with talk/play in side events...So no matter where they palyed they had mirrors, had they palyed on the other side, they would've made all the parents upset, and given you guys more complaints.


The wrong time thing happened more than once. =\ I'm not the only one saying that either.

SomethingElse
05/16/2005, 02:38 PM
i don't mind who it's worded at, I'm just saying the game will always have stalling. I only heard the time thing being off once, but even if it was for more then once, it happens. If you don't like what they say, then use your own clock/stopwatch.

Moss Factor
05/16/2005, 02:52 PM
They often wouldn't tell you what time it was to DETER stalling, and I think its a good idea. Whenever I asked how much time was left, they would say "I'll let you know at the 5-min warning, which basically mean that there was more than 5 min. I had been keeping track of the time on my own, however since I had two deck checks in a row, for one of them I didn't catch when the round started. It was a non-issue as I won on prizes regardless.

You guys are being silly here and just LOOKING for a fight. Dave didn't kick anyone out for "selling food," he simply looked into a complaint. Nobody got a game loss for the mirrors. We got time to eat after the swiss rounds were over. I never had any problems with judges not knowing the rules, and I KNOW that Matt C, Dave, and Derek knew their stuff, so having three people who knew the score was a TON better than most of the WotC tournaments.

Wake up to the fact that the tournament was a sucess. It really doesn't get much better than how GL Regionals was run =\

YoungJohn06
05/16/2005, 03:14 PM
Wow Moss.. did u comprehend my posts at all? Where did I say he kicked them out for selling food? (which they didn't do) I didn't, I said they got yelled at for it, which is exactly what I heard from several people including a person that hadn't ever been to an event before or met Dave or the Gillettes. Someone totally new to the whole scene said Dave was rude with them about it.

Whether you want to believe it or not the time calls WERE off MULTIPLE times and there are multiple people it happened to. I did say it could have gone worse, I realize that. However when I have something I don't like happen I TALK ABOUT IT. You'd do the same friggen then if it happened to you. It's over now, yeah I'm bitter about it, feel screwed a little even. You can bet if (big if there) I show up to events ran by them I will be bringing my own watch/way to keep track of the round time.

Phantom
05/16/2005, 03:55 PM
God Foisy could you bend over and take it anymore from Farber. It isn't even worth defending him. I mean come on, no one likes a lame person.

I'm just going to email my complaints directly to Scwhimmer, since that is what he requested of me. I don't think he wants anymore public arguements with me. Its not like there is anything left he can ban me from.

GJ John.

SomethingElse
05/16/2005, 04:01 PM
where in there did i say i like him? all I am doing is telling the truth of what happened, and about what they did, and about what happened. All that happened had nothing to do with derek, it had to do with the judges it seems, and Dave...I am not defending Derek at all because he had nothing to do with the problems, everything was run fine as moss said, except for a few minor problems, which happen at any tournament

Phantom
05/16/2005, 04:02 PM
When you are in charge of the event you have EVERYTHING to do with the problems.

SomethingElse
05/16/2005, 04:06 PM
Last time I checked, Dave was there, who is in a higher position then Derek, and was there to make sure everything was run fine, which it was

Phantom
05/16/2005, 04:08 PM
No event is run without problems and I have a less than stellar opinion on what Dave knows about a pokemon event.

Sceptile7990
05/16/2005, 04:11 PM
Ya, Derek was trying really hard to get this thing done right. You shoulda seen him sprinting upstairs. Man hes fast. Nothing stands in his way.

This was my first tournament run by Derek and I must say it did not live up to the quality of the tournaments run by the Gillettes.

SomethingElse
05/16/2005, 04:12 PM
fyi, the only reason why he was running upstairs was because he found out the deoxys symbol wasn't on the decklist, and was trying to get a new decklist with the deoxys signal on it, and had to go upstairs to get the symbol....

Moss Factor
05/16/2005, 04:35 PM
Wow Moss.. did u comprehend my posts at all? Where did I say he kicked them out for selling food? (which they didn't do) I didn't, I said they got yelled at for it...
Dave didn't kick anyone out for "selling food," he simply looked into a complaint.Did YOU comprehend MY post at all?

I was just trying to calm things down. I didn't even know that all this stuff with the food selling was even going on. It sounds like from a 3rd person's POV that the whole thing was a big mistakefest, and it wasn't. I'm just trying to give a non-bais impression of the tournament to outsiders. It was run well, and I don't think anyone else running it could have done much better. Maybe minor things, but overall it was a very well run tournament.

You didn't get cheated. If you are so concerned with time, bring a watch. Its not the judges job to let you know every 5 seconds how much time is left so you know exactly what pace you'll need to STALL at. You didn't win, so stop passing the buck to others and take some responsibility for your own mistakes.

farbsman
05/16/2005, 04:37 PM
Had you been around your event more maybe you'd have actually seen this.


I wasn't around? Thats weird, I sure saw a lot of the tournament. You only thought I wasn't around because when you were playing I was in there, when you were not playing and would be able to notice I was in the other room doing pairings and putting in who won and lost. I did try to avoid people as much as possible since I was sick. Only round I wasn't in there was the 3rd round when I was getting prizes ready in the back room and in between rounds when I was doing pairings. Otherwise I was in and out all day. When I did talk to people I did stay a good distance away.

Me running up and down the steps was right, I was fixing the deck list, or having them turn on the air, or checking on trash bags, or who knows what else. Most of the time I was in the back room doing stuff for the tournament if I wasn't out on the floor. I like 3 of the judges had a head set on if anyone needed anything all they had to do is call me if I wasn't in the room.

[edit] Also, as far as the "less then 5 minute" thing, thats the same thing we did at Worlds, to avoid stalling, if you announce anything under 5 minutes it gives people the opportunity to stall[\edit]

YoungJohn06
05/16/2005, 04:55 PM
Did YOU comprehend MY post at all?

I was just trying to calm things down. I didn't even know that all this stuff with the food selling was even going on. It sounds like from a 3rd person's POV that the whole thing was a big mistakefest, and it wasn't. I'm just trying to give a non-bais impression of the tournament to outsiders. It was run well, and I don't think anyone else running it could have done much better. Maybe minor things, but overall it was a very well run tournament.

You didn't get cheated. If you are so concerned with time, bring a watch. Its not the judges job to let you know every 5 seconds how much time is left so you know exactly what pace you'll need to STALL at. You didn't win, so stop passing the buck to others and take some responsibility for your own mistakes.

Dude I'm sorry for being used to being told the CORRECT time at events I played at. I normally don't wear a watch, like I said I'm going to start tho. Oh yeah I was really stalling, more like knowing what pace I need to speed through my moves at. Don't give me that stalling bullcrap. Compared to some of your friends I play at lightspeed. Please show me where my mistake was. How is it MY FAULT that the staff cannot provide me with the CORRECT time when I ask. I asked TWO TIMES. Rounds 2 and 4. That's ALL I asked. Both times they were horribly off. I'm used to being told the TRUTH when I ask a question at a tournament. Take responsibility for my mistakes? ROFL! You're HILARIOUS! I'll admit I guess I should have worn a watch, however I'm used to having the truth told like I said before. Were they diliberately lying to me? I do not know, they might have just looked at the clock a few moments ago but how hard would it be to actually CHECK and MAKE SURE. If they're not going to have a big clock out for everyone, then the judges (all of them) need to carry a clock with them at all times or SOMETHING so they can give you the correct answer. If you want to start telling people to take responsibility for their mistakes, then I got a WHOLE LIST of people that need to do that as well. The majority of them being people defending the crap that actually happened here and denying it did when multiple people are saying it did. The only people defending it and denying it are people that are in the judges little circle or trying to suck up to Schwimmer/PUI in hopes of them giving them a trip or something *CoughMOSSCough*

YoungJohn06
05/16/2005, 04:57 PM
I wasn't around? Thats weird, I sure saw a lot of the tournament. You only thought I wasn't around because when you were playing I was in there, when you were not playing and would be able to notice I was in the other room doing pairings and putting in who won and lost. I did try to avoid people as much as possible since I was sick. Only round I wasn't in there was the 3rd round when I was getting prizes ready in the back room and in between rounds when I was doing pairings. Otherwise I was in and out all day. When I did talk to people I did stay a good distance away.

Me running up and down the steps was right, I was fixing the deck list, or having them turn on the air, or checking on trash bags, or who knows what else. Most of the time I was in the back room doing stuff for the tournament if I wasn't out on the floor. I like 3 of the judges had a head set on if anyone needed anything all they had to do is call me if I wasn't in the room.

[edit] Also, as far as the "less then 5 minute" thing, thats the same thing we did at Worlds, to avoid stalling, if you announce anything under 5 minutes it gives people the opportunity to stall[\edit]


Then why did your staff announce 3 minutes more than once throughout the day? Round 1 and I believe round 3 or 4 it happened. That does nothing but encourage it. Why is that some of your judges would give exact time if it was under five minutes and others wouldn't? Do you guys have ANY kind of a set guideline for these events or do you just make it up as you go. Cause NO ONE seems to be on the same page as the rest of the staff.

SomethingElse
05/16/2005, 05:20 PM
they did that becuase they missed the 5 minute warning, since they don't watch the timer the whole time

Phantom
05/16/2005, 05:26 PM
Wow Foisy, its almost like you are reading Farber's mind; its amazing how some people can do that.

SomethingElse
05/16/2005, 05:26 PM
your right, i probably am...why? Because it's not hard to tell the same thing when we both speak the truth

Phantom
05/16/2005, 05:29 PM
Wow I like your fluent use of the English language.

Sensei
05/16/2005, 05:50 PM
Look, I banned Socal people for some of the same stuff going on here. If you have something that adds to the discussion on either end, then by all means post your opinion. If you have nothing to say but something to attack someone, namely Phantom as well as one or two others, then sthu.

I won`t beat around the bush here. Either discuss things rationally and do not spam, or you can earn yourself a nice boot where the sun don`t shine outta here. Straight and to the point.

You have been warned. No more warnings from here on out. Just bans.

`Sensei

farbsman
05/16/2005, 05:50 PM
The only people defending it and denying it are people that are in the judges little circle or trying to suck up to Schwimmer/PUI in hopes of them giving them a trip or something *CoughMOSSCough*

Same can be said about the ones complaining, look on the Ohio PTO loss posts and they are the same, same people attacking me and my staff about this tournament. Someone is still blaiming me for it, just a new way to attack me. Nothing here about the tournament really matters, nothing affected the outcome, and if your so worried about time ask the head judge. If you had such a big problem with it and it was so OBVIOUS to everyone, then how come nobody asked for me or stopped me and told me about it? The reason is simple, its unjustified and just the only thing they could think of to complain about that couldn't be proven and a select group that wants to attack me can complain about together. Of course all the judges are gonna say the time was the same, they all had clocks saying what time it was. All judges had timers, all the runners didn't.

If your complaining of not having a break after 5 hours you better never get a job, I work 7-8 hours before I get one almost every day. We took a break for the top players. The 10 and under and 11-14 had an hour break. When the event starts close to lunch there is no reason for a break. Food was available for the first 4 rounds for purchase that the hotel was selling. I have never seen anyone complain about $1 for a hotdog, $1 for pop and $0.50 for chips in my life.

This is my last post on the subject. Its just attacks on myself, my judges, my staff, and anyone that doesn't want to attack us over nothing. Seriously people its just Pokemon. Now I know why in Japan everyone over the age of 18 can't play. :nonono:

SomethingElse
05/16/2005, 06:18 PM
why i fell? i told the judge, let me fall out of the chair....he paralyzed me 3 straight turns with under 5 minutes left, any one of the turns, i had him killed to go up by 1 prize to win the game, so when he paralyzed me 3 turns in a row to win, i said, here, i'm gonna fall, gg, and fell....I am very happy making T8 in my first large 15+ competition, especially with the likes of AJ, Moss, Seena, and others...But i could've beaten him and made the T4, which i would've been sooooooo happy with....But T8 is easily as great for my first 15+ large competition.....

SomethingElse
05/16/2005, 06:20 PM
also, i guarantee you if you ask my opponent's, all except 1 or 2, i shook there hands, and all of them i said good game....even when i fell out of my chair, i said gg, and after shook his hand....

The Ghaz Factor
05/16/2005, 06:22 PM
Farbsman is cool, Schwimmer is cool

AND ALL C ALL U ******Z AT WORLDS *****ES!

Cyrus
05/16/2005, 06:25 PM
This is my last post on the subject. Its just attacks on myself, my judges, my staff, and anyone that doesn't want to attack us over nothing. Seriously people its just Pokemon. Now I know why in Japan everyone over the age of 18 can't play. :nonono:

Although I'm not given exclusive rights and knowledge about Japanese Pokemon, so I might be wrong here, but I look on the Battle Road Spring section of the official Japanese website all the time, and it lists winners for the Master division (ie ages 18+). So Your comment in its context isn't exactly correct.

Please refrain from implying such things, though. We all know that the trip removal for 15+ is what KILLED the game in the United States, and led it down its worst days in OP, _despite_ having its greatest successes when it came to game fun and quality (Ne-on was definitely the best format). I know the 15+ is on a short leash, that is fine if we are acting up, but if the 15+'s collar is too tight, it will choke and die.

Just my $0.02

farbsman
05/16/2005, 06:31 PM
Although I'm not given exclusive rights and knowledge about Japanese Pokemon, so I might be wrong here, but I look on the Battle Road Spring section of the official Japanese website all the time, and it lists winners for the Master division (ie ages 18+). So Your comment in its context isn't exactly correct.

Please refrain from implying such things, though. We all know that the trip removal for 15+ is what KILLED the game in the United States, and led it down its worst days in OP, _despite_ having its greatest successes when it came to game fun and quality (Ne-on was definitely the best format). I know the 15+ is on a short leash, that is fine if we are acting up, but if the 15+'s collar is too tight, it will choke and die.

Just my $0.02

Ok I will respond to this, just because nobody is attacking anyone. I only know that at Japanese Nationals this was the case. I really have no idea what the normal is over there. I just know that in Japanese Nationals held at Worlds the players were all under 18. Dave could probably shed some light on this, but probably should do it in another post.

I have nothing against 15+, its just they seem to be the ones that complain a lot, thats all. Not sure what we would do if we lost them, they are over half the attendance at most tournaments.

YoungJohn06
05/16/2005, 06:42 PM
Same can be said about the ones complaining, look on the Ohio PTO loss posts and they are the same, same people attacking me and my staff about this tournament. Someone is still blaiming me for it, just a new way to attack me. Nothing here about the tournament really matters, nothing affected the outcome, and if your so worried about time ask the head judge. If you had such a big problem with it and it was so OBVIOUS to everyone, then how come nobody asked for me or stopped me and told me about it? The reason is simple, its unjustified and just the only thing they could think of to complain about that couldn't be proven and a select group that wants to attack me can complain about together. Of course all the judges are gonna say the time was the same, they all had clocks saying what time it was. All judges had timers, all the runners didn't.

Yes it mostly was the people that are friends of the Gillettes defending them. HOWEVER, if you look at the thread and the petition. There are many people from many parts of the country that signed it. People that really didn't know them.

I TRIED to find you to talk about it, couldn't find you. I did however talk to Rich about the timing thing. Ajay and I both did actually. My mom spoke to Schwimmer about it, he was totally obvlivious to the fact of it, didn't even look into it. Funny how he blew that off but took interest in the rumor about the Gillettes selling food. If they all had clocks then why didn't they look at them when I asked? Why did they say oh just under five minutes then the friggen timer is called for the round right after? Why was I told close to 10 minutes then someone, I cannot remember who made a THREE MINUTE time call over the speakers. You keep saying the time thing didn't happen, but there are quite a few saying otherwise. Actually telling a player there is 10 minutes left when there is really 3, makes a HUGE different. Toward the end of the game players either A). Tend to play a little slower if they're winning or B). Tend to play as fast as possible if it's close to go up on the prizes. It TOTALLY affects the outcome of things.


If your complaining of not having a break after 5 hours you better never get a job, I work 7-8 hours before I get one almost every day. We took a break for the top players. The 10 and under and 11-14 had an hour break. When the event starts close to lunch there is no reason for a break. Food was available for the first 4 rounds for purchase that the hotel was selling. I have never seen anyone complain about $1 for a hotdog, $1 for pop and $0.50 for chips in my life.

I didn't look at the prices, nor did I go out there. I didn't have a problem not eating actually. HOWEVER it was just discussed in a topic that no food or dinner break was a PROBLEM for people (I believe in grandmajoners post about best 2/3) because they have to eat real meals at a certain time. HOLY CRAP could this fall in the same catagory. Normally there is a lunch break at most tournaments I've been to at 2-3 when we started at 10-11ish. I'm aware you've not really done lunch breaks lately. However there are people that do need to eat, people that get sick from not eating. The hot dogs and Nachos were fine for snacks but for a real meal, there was no time really for that for the older group. The 11-14 and 10- did get it but the older did not. I don't think anyone there had that problem, but it realistically COULD happen.


This is my last post on the subject. Its just attacks on myself, my judges, my staff, and anyone that doesn't want to attack us over nothing. Seriously people its just Pokemon. Now I know why in Japan everyone over the age of 18 can't play.


I am not meaning to attack you, your staff, or anyone. I am voicing my opinion on the tournament. With exception of the time thing which DID HAPPEN even though you seem to insist it didn't, I did have fun. I enjoyed being with my friends and everything. What do you mean people over the age of 18 in Japan can't play? Don't they have the master division 18+? :confused:

Sensei
05/16/2005, 06:52 PM
I am not meaning to attack you, your staff, or anyone. I am voicing my opinion on the tournament.

Exactly. Voicing opinions are fine. Anyone that flames or just outright slams someone is against the rules as well as disrespectful and will be dealt with. This site is to be enjoyed by all and not to have people attacking each other even if we have a difference of opinion. I really do not want to ban people or lock this thread, but if members conveniently forget to abide by the rules that they agreed to when they signed up here, well then, I will not hesitate to show the way out...

Let`s respect every member here, even if you disagree with them.

`Sensei

ARMondak
05/16/2005, 07:09 PM
For the eating thing - you can eat between rounds. There was a person selling nachos and hot dogs just feet away from the tourney and vending machines a couple floors up. If you can't get away from the site, pay one of the parents to run down there and get the food for you. There was a Subway within a couple minutes walking - I'd gladly take $3-5 to walk a couple of blocks and get some food for someone.

The timer thing could've been better - I believe that there should be a large timer which everyone can see. 10 minutes to 3 minutes in 15 seconds changes the game completely.

There was no other problems with the judges - they didn't blow any calls that I know of, they were respectful. My only thing was that the tournament ran a little too slowly (which should've given you PLENTY of time to eat anyways)

One more thing - these tourneys are FREE. In other TCGs you have to pay $15-25 just to enter and have poor prizes. I payed a little under $200 for the cards in my deck and got $2000+ worth in prizes? Not too shabby.

YoungJohn06
05/16/2005, 07:45 PM
The majority of my games went to time or close to time. I really wasn't hungry until later. I wasn't complaining about that for me but for the people that did have issues with it.

You're totally right tho, going from 10 minutes left in a game to 3 minutes completely changes it. That's what I've been trying to get through. That TOTALLY changed my game. It was very close game, I have no hard feelings towards the players that it happened with. It was NOT their fault. I had no ruling issues either, they were quite efficient at that withexception of a little lack of speed a few times. My main issue was the time thing. That REALLY played a part in my games. Had I known on my turn I had really 3 minutes left not 10 I would have played a little faster and not thought it out so much to try and get my next turn.

Cyrus
05/16/2005, 08:34 PM
Hey now guys, I think John Wetz, Dave Schwimmer, Foisy, and Derek Farber should all just listen to TheAnswer3 rap. Then they'll kiss, make up, and everything will be all better =P

CHARIZARD MASTERTRAINER
05/16/2005, 09:53 PM
Im here to help Prof. Dav out.....

You guys have to understand that Dav would never directly yell at anyone for something minimal like this, its not something to get all evil on.....there are certain legal issues that are at play, for whatever reason, POP would be held responsible if something happened (food poisoning, etc) to anyone partcipating in the event, especially all the young kids. Parents and/or guardians would hold POP responsible for not taking some action and not prevent people from selling food, which I see was the best step to take from Prof. Dav's point of view, making sure everyone was safe, that the event would be run smoothly, etc. The time issue, I can't really comment on, since I wasn't there, I wish I knew exactly what was going on......

See ya

Absolution
05/16/2005, 09:58 PM
Hey now guys, I think John Wetz, Dave Schwimmer, Foisy, and Derek Farber should all just listen to TheAnswer3 rap. Then they'll kiss, make up, and everything will be all better =P

w3rd Patriarch, w3rd.