damage and knock outs

[ShadowCard]

I read the rule book and Team Compendium but both sort of confused me.
When a pokemon has taken enough damage to knock it out but an additional effect would also take place (say, to the bench), and the active (being KOed) has a poke-body to cancel the additional effect, would the additional effect take place?
Situation:
Mightyena, 70hp with the Intimidating Fang Poke-Body (as long as Mightyena is active, any damage done by an opponent's attack to any of your pokemon is reduced by 10) is being KOed due to an attack. The attack states to do 10 damage to the bench also.
Would all damage placements be calculated and then KOs are checked for or is a KO immediate, allowing 10 damage to be done to the bench (in this situation)?

[AbsolutelyNobody]

I am probably wrong, but I think the effects of attcks are resolved before the Ko. Just like you're supposed to flip for poison in a poison sting even if the pokemon is already koed. Again, If I am wrong my sincerest apologies and this post can be deleted. :)

[PokePop]

All damage is applied at the same time so, in your example, the damage to the bench would be reduced.

[SteveP]

Right, that's the way I look at (like PokePop said). All damage and placement of damage counters are resolved and all effects that alter damage and damage counters are resolved. Then, before applying other effects such as Paralysis or switching, a check is done to see if a KO occurs. Then, the non-damage effects are applied and ANOTHER KO check is done when ALL those side-effects are resolved (like paralyzing Ditto, or sending him to the bench with 5+ damage counters). That's how I've always thought KO occur when resolving attacks. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[NoPoke]

* Clarification on the whole Knock Out/triggered effects steps in Pokémon as well. When a Pokémon receives sufficient damage to be Knocked Out it is INSTANTLY Knocked out (before anything else is done). HOWEVER, Prize cards are NOT drawn AND replacement Pokémon are NOT moved up until ALL triggered effects are resolved. Meaning that if Blaine's Moltres does its attack and Knocks out Dark Gyarados, the Dark Gyarados would get its chance with its Final Beam attack effect BEFORE the Moltres can return to your hand (if you flipped tails). Blaine's Moltres states that it would be returned to your hand AFTER DOING DAMAGE. This means AFTER all triggered effects are resolved (in this case the Dark Gyarados' Final Beam). So after everything has resolved THEN prizes are drawn and replacement Benched Pokémon are moved up (with the player whose turn is next choosing first). (Aug 24, 2000 WotC Chat Announcements)



I was just looking in The Compendium for Forretress to see if you still have to switch even when you KO their active. But it wasn't there :( Pokemon is a tricky game that lacks timing: things tend to happen simultaneously yet the only way we can resolve these is to have sequences to follow. FWIW I thought that you complete every part of an attack before replacing KO'd pokemon. So the replacing of KO'd pokes takes place just before end-of-turn. The INSTANTLY Ko'd means that there is no way that a pokemon can recover once the damage is placed, rather than it is replaced at that moment. No timing in pokemon :(. Focus Band for example would interfere with the placing of damage rather than allow it to be placed and then removed.

I don't think I'm correcting you Steve. Just that I don't imagine the KO check being done at specific point in a sequence. AS long as yur sequence works then it is as good as any other way of getting the correct answer :) The whole lot happens simultaneously and we use sequences to ensure that we get the answer right. [Kind of like how a photon knows that there is another slit present and it should 'interfere' and 'deflect' rather than just behave like a bullet and travel in straight lines. We have maths and methods that allow us to come to the right answer but no idea of how the photon achieves its magic!]

[PokePop]

LOL.
Pokemon is like quantum physics!

[NoPoke]

Yep... its just as mysterious at times. Quantum Electro Dynamics is probably physics most successfull, precise and tested theory, yet at its heart it has this truely mysterious and positively MAD behaviour. Wonderfull.

[yoshi1001]

LOL.
Pokemon is like quantum physics!

Nah.
Quantum physics makes sense.

Truth be told, damage calculation and knockouts are some of the most complex aspects of the game. If you can figure them out-you're probably a genius.

[AbsolutelyNobody]

I was right? Yes! Party! :D :clap:
Thanks NoPoke for the offical info.

[SteveP]

Yah NoPoke, I think we're on the same page. The KO check that I'm talking about after damage effects and before applying non-damage effects is for Pokemon like Misty's Staryu (or maybe it's Starmie) where the Pokemon gets shuffled into the deck when it attacks. For example, Entei's Bolt is very clear that it can't be saved from a KO. However, that's not as clear with Misty's Staryu. If Staryu gets damaged from a cross attack like Rough Skin, Counter Claw, or Cross-counter, and the damage is enough to KO Staryu, then Staryu's attack side-effect is ignored. COnfusing, yes.

[NoPoke]

I *never* did get my head around cross-counter LOL: I remember having great difficulty with what was or wasn't an attack / attacks back.

Yoshi... the beauty of Quantum Elctro Dynamics is that it MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. However Quantum Physics works!

( and poor old Newtonian mechanics doesn't, in the limit at least...)

[ukpokemonpro]

The answer guys and gals is 42.

:)

[NoPoke]

ah but who remembers what the ultimate question actually was?

[PokePop]

I *never* did get my head around cross-counter LOL: I remember having great difficulty with what was or wasn't an attack / attacks back.

It didn't help that WOtC would give the opposite answer to the last time every time they were asked a question on this or similar effects!

I finally stopped revising and stuck with it being an attack effect, personally.

[NoPoke]

thanks 'Pop.. I was begining to think I was the only one in the world who struggled with cross-counter ;) Imagine my 'delight' when in became best promo #9 LOL