Scizor Ex..... undefeated city champion!

[BANGINBOX]

Hey all,

After playing the powerful deck known as PMS (Pidgeot, Metagross, Scizor Ex) I have come to this conclusion.

There will be 2 types of people that play at the city championships......

Those that play Scizor and those that LOSE to it.

Unless you specifically build a deck to beat it, a simple tech will not beat it. try it and you'll see. I hate archetypes , and do everything I can to beat whats in the metagame. However this will be extremely tough.

Discuss.......

Jimmy

[KG1337]

Its a great deck. Definetly one of the top 2 decks but it does have its weakness and im not talking about fire ;)

[rokman]

There are plenty of decks that can tear through SMP, and Ajay knows of one of them ;D

[ryanvergel]

Yeah, it's a good deck, the best? Possibly, but I think too many decks have such a good chance in this metagame.

[KG1337]

Good Matchups:
-Queen
-ZRE
-Cham
-Anything Random
-Anything that Drew Holton plays
-Dragtrode
-Meganium
-Slowking

Bad Matchups:
-Ludi
-**** *****
-Draggy/Metagross
-RL

[lukerc10t4]

no i win with tyran

[KG1337]

LMAO jeremy

i guess i can put queen with T1 Nidoqueen, T1 Pidgeot on the bad matchups too ;)

[sceptilerancher]

omg...
calm down with this deck...
i bet no one plays SMP in SoFla

[Ruler of Ice]

nobody plays it here...atleast that is....there arent enought Scizors to do that.

[AXE]

ITs def. the best deck in the format right now. Unless someone comes up with some amazing deck from the new se i dont see how this deck wont just tear through the CCs.

[rokman]

ITs def. the best deck in the format right now. Unless someone comes up with some amazing deck from the new se i dont see how this deck wont just tear through the CCs.
1 Qwilfish
1 Whiscash
5 venture bomb
69 fire energy

gg sir!

[Flaming_Spinach]

Who couldn't see this coming? Scizor is the best deck in the format. You can't deny that.

BANGINBOX - What CC was this at? What placed second? Will there be a tournie report? Sorry if that's a lot of questions, but I'm really curious.

[Ruler of Ice]

CC's have already started?witw?

Edited Please do not use abbreviations for words not allowed.

[Poliwag92]

Good Matchups:
-Queen
-ZRE
-Cham
-Anything Random
-Anything that Drew Holton plays
-Dragtrode
-Meganium
-Slowking

Bad Matchups:
-Ludi
-**** *****
-Draggy/Metagross
-RL


which dragtrode are you talking about... :wink:

[rokman]

CC's have already started?They start next weekend...

[Zach_EX]

I guess i'm the only one who thinks SMP is not the best thing out there. >_>
It is played in the NY area but I manage to beat it about 50/50. As for CC's, it will win some but it will make a lot less of an impact than people are expecting.
That's just of corse my opinion. =/

[killerzeo]

We're starting Medicham EX all over again.

[wishirulz]

madichamp ex was a lost cause from the start it came out all though i love the art!

[bass_forte]

Scizor is very powerful. That's true. Although Battle Frontier hinders it slightly, it's a mere annoyance, and Scizor would probably pwn anyway. I dunno... I've lost to Scizor a lot, and it's gotten boring for both me and my friend. Scizor shouldn't have been so overpowered, but I guess when Arcy ex becomes legal, it will kill Scizor.

[sceptilerancher]

omg scizor pwns nuthin
its a pretty good card but its not gonna win EVERY SINGLE CC

lol *doubts ANY people in South FL will play SMP at cities*
everyone goin gonzo over this thing...=/

[Metagross_Ex]

I hope this doesn't turn out to be an overhyped deck like Medicham EX and then fade away.

[CharizardHector589]

i beat it with prime tool

[Esperante]

Sally delta KO's any card in the deck in 1 hit.

And yet I still win only about 60/40 against it. =/

But sweep cities? I doubt it. Pretty strongly.

[blastoise1992]

How does scizor beat a GOOD medi Ex/Medi-Doom?
Shuts down metagross and Pidgeot. + houndoom + BF = GG
even though houndoom has low hp it can still OHKO scizor or 2HKO it. and losing 1 tanked scizor is like going through hell drenched in gasoline or at least all the ones i've played.
JMO

[killerzeo]

Oh well, actually it would be two on two so the power wouldn't work. I mean you don't need Pidgeot out. Search is good but with a fully tanked Scizor EX (Four Metals), you don't really need Pidgeot.

[blastoise1992]

Another point about medi-doom is with magnetic storm is that reversal + magneticstorm + pidgeot + skykick+ GG All I'm trying to say is that Medi Ex Is still a very viable deck!!!!

[killerzeo]

Did I say it went down the drain? I was just saying if it were to win every cities (highly doubt it) or other major tournament, then we would be getting the same as Medicham EX. (People paying hundreds of dollars for 4 Scizor EX and saying you either play it or find something to beat it.)

[blastoise1992]

He said there are people who play it and people who lose to it.
and that is such bull crap. So many decks can beat it. Yea its good but its not the best. When one deck beats every other thing somthings wrong and then you quit playing the game.

[killerzeo]

I can agree with you on all points, except that you don't quit permanently. You just stop until it's rotated out.

[blastoise1992]

Yea It was pretty rash saying you quit but you "take a break until nintendo goes to rehab"

[killerzeo]

Or bans the card.

[blastoise1992]

True. Scizor ex could become the next NG sneasel.

[Tmanplayer21]

Just have a pokemon that can burn down scizor ex in one shot.

[blastoise1992]

Could work but, Water decks such as ludicargo and Feral EX are popular

[Prime]

Hey all,

After playing the powerful deck known as PMS (Pidgeot, Metagross, Scizor Ex) I have come to this conclusion.

There will be 2 types of people that play at the city championships..

Those that play Scizor and those that LOSE to it.

Unless you specifically build a deck to beat it, a simple tech will not beat it. try it and you'll see. I hate archetypes , and do everything I can to beat whats in the metagame. However this will be extremely tough.

Discuss.......

Jimmy

Okay!

**sells house and buys SMP cards**

[blastoise1992]

Okay!

**sells house and buys SMP cards**
I hope your joking about selling your soul for SMP it can easily be beat by playing smart!

[bass_forte]

Okay!

**sells house and buys SMP cards**
Roflmao.

[Benlugia]

he didn't say soul though--he said house.

[blastoise1992]

Same difference.

[Myn_donos]

SMP, i played taht with Babylution, babylution has tyrogues, chan, lee, top, smoochum, jynx, kid and buzz. i took SMP down to 2 prizes before i lost. had i played smarter, i might have won, but with metagross hitting my fighting for 140 damage.. it was sort of a lost cause lol.

[Tmanplayer21]

If you are that worried about Scizor in the SMP deck then all that is needed is a fire pokemon that can take out Scizor ex in one shot like Camerupt ex, Ninetales ex, Houndoom and you really don't need to worry about the water weakness because there is no water pokemon in SMP. So if you think everyone is going to use SMP then just build your deck to beat it. I think it is unlikely that everyone can build that deck though.

[ColdCoates90]

Scizor is a wonderful card but theres still stuff that can beat it.A well played ZRE for example has a good shot of taking it out.If anyone needs scizors check my sig. lol

[ryanvergel]

How does SMP beat medidoom?
3energy metagross.

Attach energy to beldum
30 to beldum
attach energy to metang
30 to metand
energy to metagross, ko

unless the medidoom can get off a reversal, and they normally play pow! a lot lately, the metagross will come up and take two prizes and damper the medidoom player, just rinse and repeat, and eventually admin them if needed.

if you trade prizes, the metagross will win since theyre not ex.

[Cyrus]

Who couldn't see this coming? Scizor is the best deck in the format. You can't deny that.


I can definitely deny that. SMP is a very beatable deck...just like everything else. It's a great deck, don't get me wrong, but it isn't the best thing since sliced bread...sliced bread is pretty darn good, though

[Scizor]

Sneasel, lol. Sneasel wasn't even unbeatable. Medicham ex was a great deck, it won Nationals and 11-14 Worlds. Plenty of things beat it though. Scizor ex is not even comparable to either of those cards. Medidoom, I guess you can play that if you want to lose to everything else, oh and still not beat SMP. Listen to KG2005, Spin Tail and Ludicargo are the best answers to the deck.

[BANGINBOX]

How does scizor beat a GOOD medi Ex/Medi-Doom?
Shuts down metagross and Pidgeot. + houndoom + BF = GG
even though houndoom has low hp it can still OHKO scizor or 2HKO it. and losing 1 tanked scizor is like going through hell drenched in gasoline or at least all the ones i've played.
JMOi am not claiming to be the best player here. nor am i saying that scizor is the be all end all of decks. What I am stating is, that a simple tech against it will not work. sorry stoise but houndoom sux!!! if you need me to prove it, email me with your apprentice IP. you will see that the power will PWN your booty.

Please folks dont get me wrong here. This IS the new rock lock of last year. It will win 60+% of the cities until the next set is released. Its not the first scizor that gets you Its the second.... or even worse ITS THE THIRD!!!

YOU CANNOT UNDER ESTIMATE THE POWER OF THIS DECK IF YOU PLAN ON EVEN CONTENDING AT THE CITY CHAMPIONSHIPS

Remember you heard it here first......

Ps..... Espeon will completely pwn medicham and keep it out of the top cuts...... trust me.....Oh ya, spinning tail dont beat it either ... we have tried.

JImmy

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

Very overrated deck. It isn't the best and therefore can't compare to other decks that have dominated.

[smoknhasheesh360]

hey there is a friend of mine who loves green decks and puts weezing's in the deck to get rid of ex,s that are very powerfull, and the way he will play is a 2 for 1 prize kinda way, he has a deck that runs about 3 weezing in it, it is really good against heavely powerfull creatures, especially if they are relied on too much

[bass_forte]

hey there is a friend of mine who loves green decks and puts weezing's in the deck to get rid of ex,s that are very powerfull, and the way he will play is a 2 for 1 prize kinda way, he has a deck that runs about 3 weezing in it, it is really good against heavely powerfull creatures, especially if they are relied on too much
True. Weezing + Victreebel does major pwnage.

[Flaming_Spinach]

Does Medicham beats Scizogross?

Answer: Uhhh...NO. Has anyone noticed that Medicham has Psychic weakness? "Oh, well I'll just trap something active and Pure Power their bench." That won't work either. Everything in Scizogross has either a 0 or 1 retreat cost, or is Psychic type. The ONLY possible way that Medicham beats Scizogross is if Scizogross gets a really, really bad start.



So what does Scizogross lose to?

Pretty much anything that does 180 damage or more on a consistant basis. And we all know how many Modified decks can pull off that amount of damage constantly.



Scizogrosses greatest strength is its variability. Every Pokemon in it can attack; so against each opponent you have to play the game slightly differently. You'd have to be a fool work for a fully-tanked Scizor against a Medicham deck. Metagross is much better in this situation. What about Healx? That's why you have Offensive Deoxys-ex obviously. What about Safeguarders? Pidgeot and Metagross own them. Oh, Salamence-Delta OHKOs Scizor? Well Pidgeot + Strength Charm OHKOs Salamence-Delta. GG.

In Summary, Scizogross isn't good because it has the Most Tankable Pokemon in History as its focus; Scizogross is made good by the 'Tech' lines in it. Right now, no deck has the versatility that Scizogross has.*


*Except for maybe Four-Corners, but that deck sucks anyway.

[Articjedi]

It is overrated. People are going to be teching against it regardless of whether it's the best deck or not.

[Charizard_Breeder]

After playing the powerful deck known as PMS (Pidgeot, Metagross, Scizor Ex) I have come to this conclusion.
There will be 2 types of people that play at the city championships..
Those that play Scizor and those that LOSE to it.
it's a very good deck, yes it is...but it going undefeated, ehhhh, I'm not sure about that :rolleyes: I guess we'll just have to wait and see, wont we??

...and LOL, you took the "LETTERS" right out of my mouth on SMP's nickname. :wink:
but just a couple more weeks to see this all POWERFUL deck in action...should be a good first couple of CC's!!

lates

[PokeWisconsin]

Hey all,

After playing the powerful deck known as PMS (Pidgeot, Metagross, Scizor Ex) I have come to this conclusion.

There will be 2 types of people that play at the city championships..

Those that play Scizor and those that LOSE to it.

Unless you specifically build a deck to beat it, a simple tech will not beat it. try it and you'll see. I hate archetypes , and do everything I can to beat whats in the metagame. However this will be extremely tough.

Discuss.......

Jimmy

There are so many new decks out there that detroy Scizor it's crazy. It is still a good deck though and will probably do well regardless.

[Charizard1987]

Scizor ex unbeatable??Although im playing with it, but i do not agree with this. It still depand on how the trainer plays and luck because you might lose if you have a very bad hand like no energy cards in your hand... :biggrin: ..so you cant say is unbeatable but maximise the chances to WIN :thumb:

[Kevin89]

it loses to typhlosion too =p (it's pretty big here actually)

[b0n3z]

it loses to typhlosion too =p (it's pretty big here actually)
Yes...and it loses to LudiCargo, as long as it's not a random LudiCargo.

[blastoise1992]

i am not claiming to be the best player here. nor am i saying that scizor is the be all end all of decks. What I am stating is, that a simple tech against it will not work. sorry stoise but houndoom sux!!! if you need me to prove it, email me with your apprentice IP. you will see that the power will PWN your booty.

Please folks dont get me wrong here. This IS the new rock lock of last year. It will win 60+% of the cities until the next set is released. Its not the first scizor that gets you Its the second.... or even worse ITS THE THIRD!!!

YOU CANNOT UNDER ESTIMATE THE POWER OF THIS DECK IF YOU PLAN ON EVEN CONTENDING AT THE CITY CHAMPIONSHIPS


Ps..... Espeon will completely pwn medicham and keep it out of the top cuts...... trust me.....Oh ya, spinning tail dont beat it either ... we have tried.

JImmy
Espeon? Who plays espeon? People think medicham is dead so whos gonna play it (espeon)
all I'm saying is no ones gonna build a deck to combat a deck which they think is "dead".

Yea we can underestimate the power of SMP. 1 scizor down and you are screwed! By the time you can recover your taking comsistand damage and your opp. is gettin 2 prizes.

Scizor. Good? Yea it's probably one of the best cards in modified.
Scizor the best deck the pwnz everything? Ha Ha Ha! I'm gonna laugh when you get so full of your self and you lose.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Uh yeah, in case you haven't noticed, espeon doesn't exactly suck against things other than medicham. It's quite dangerous.

1 scizor down and you are screwed!
Yeah... no one ever uses super connectivity in a SMP deck...

[b0n3z]

Yeah... no one ever uses super connectivity in a SMP deck...

It still takes you 4 turns to get a new Scizor Ex as tank out again + then it will have 4 damage counters...what does this tell you?

YES...then it just has 80HP left + 4 Metal + First Attack = 140 Attack and you're gone...oh and wait...Typhlosion Ex does just 160 damage...oh too bad... Typh no one likes you, because Scizor Ex is the new PWNAGE card...lOl...

[ZAKtheGeek]

Typhlosion is a pretty easy win in any case. Try a different example.

Such as one where a player gets more than one metagross up and/or doesn't throw all their metal onto one scizor.

[ryanvergel]

Does Medicham beats Scizogross?

Answer: Uhhh...NO. Has anyone noticed that Medicham has Psychic weakness? "Oh, well I'll just trap something active and Pure Power their bench." That won't work either. Everything in Scizogross has either a 0 or 1 retreat cost, or is Psychic type. The ONLY possible way that Medicham beats Scizogross is if Scizogross gets a really, really bad start.



So what does Scizogross lose to?

Pretty much anything that does 180 damage or more on a consistant basis. And we all know how many Modified decks can pull off that amount of damage constantly.



Scizogrosses greatest strength is its variability. Every Pokemon in it can attack; so against each opponent you have to play the game slightly differently. You'd have to be a fool work for a fully-tanked Scizor against a Medicham deck. Metagross is much better in this situation. What about Healx? That's why you have Offensive Deoxys-ex obviously. What about Safeguarders? Pidgeot and Metagross own them. Oh, Salamence-Delta OHKOs Scizor? Well Pidgeot + Strength Charm OHKOs Salamence-Delta. GG.

In Summary, Scizogross isn't good because it has the Most Tankable Pokemon in History as its focus; Scizogross is made good by the 'Tech' lines in it. Right now, no deck has the versatility that Scizogross has.*


*Except for maybe Four-Corners, but that deck sucks anyway.


pidgeot+charm=100damage
sally d has 110hp
it lives

[Gymbo ex]

Scizor is definitely a very strong choice. It's probably what I'm playing next week in High Point.

~Jim

[Dark Umbreon]

pidgeot+charm=100damage
sally d has 110hp
it lives

Salamance δ can use Holon Energy FF in order to combat that and in fact all known Salamance δ decks do that. This does not mean that Scizor ex is not good. It is indeed a formidable card but not without weakness.

[GARDEVOIR001]

Scizor will not go undefeated. Most people will be prepared for it :wink:

[Ice'Cold]

I'm with banginbox on this one. Scizorgross if used properly is probbaly going to be THE deck to beat. The only reason it wouldn't be used is if you can't get the scizors. And right now there really hard to pickup unless you get lucky.

[Silver Chaos]

I was so happy that I saw my favorite pokemon becoming an ex, now.... Not as much. It's kinda tough, as you do have everyone gunning for you, plus all of the people saying "You just use Scizor because it's good," when I really use it because it's my favorite pokemon, as well. I run it with Feral ex and the Deoxys ex (which is being experimented.) I knew the card would be good, but... it's too good for it's own good... If people do keep complainin'... Scizor might get banned... Don't ban my favorite pokemon and leave me runnin' a Rocket deck... PLEASE!

[rokman]

It won't be banned... it is too easy to beat...

[tecdecs]

salamence'D>scizor

[b0n3z]

Scizor might get banned...
lol this will definitely not happen.
1. There are no bans in Pokemon

2. Slowking was banned, because it was too strong, while on the bench, with a minor disadvantage as coin flip

3. Sneasel was banned, cause it could deal too much damage, while not having a Weakness.

But Scizor Ex has problems with Desert Ruins, Fire Type Pokemon,...

[Tego]

Don't worry, it won't last for long.

In Japan, Scizor ex won everywhere until Arcanine ex came along and stopped it for good. Nobody dears to play Scizor ex in Japan anymore because there are so many Arcanine ex decks around, at least according to the Japanese player I talked to at Worlds.

[TheGame]

Quick question guys- what is the strategy of the PMS deck? In the UK we have not seen much of it and would like to know some tips to pass on to my players. Thanks

[ColdFire64]

Scizor Ex isn't TOO hard to beat, especially if you attack it with attacks that PUT damage rather than do damage (like Metang for example). Scizor Ex isn't really played much around here, but if you guys are worried about this card, then throw something in to counter it, like a fire deck! Typhlosion Ex would be a great counter, and powers up quickly thnaks to its "Bursting Up" PokePower. It's best to KO that thing in one hit rather than let it get to 60- HP, and so far I think Fire is the best way to put this thing out. Maybe when we get Arcanine Ex the bug will be damaged goods...

[TheGame]

Thanks Venusaur! :thumb:

[Esperante]

Oh, Salamence-Delta OHKOs Scizor? Well Pidgeot + Strength Charm OHKOs Salamence-Delta. GG.[/SIZE]
Holon energy FF. 50 damage when I have no metals attached, wow.

[FireFighter095ReBorn]

I have seen scizor ex played and i will admit its a great deck. The thing is ive seen decks that can beat it and decks that will do better in citys. I will admit that it will win a few cities but there will be better decks that will win cities. I think after cities scizor ex will be seen as a less then impressive card and the deck will be less played going into states.

[vincent0906]

Don't worry, it won't last for long.

In Japan, Scizor ex won everywhere until Arcanine ex came along and stopped it for good. Nobody dears to play Scizor ex in Japan anymore because there are so many Arcanine ex decks around, at least according to the Japanese player I talked to at Worlds.

To counter RK9-ex,
some Japanese use Vaporeon (UF) as starting pokemon.

Eevee + Water in first turn -> Vaporeon Aqua Supply etc...


Vaporeon delta would be even better I think,
attach a metal to make it,
althrough attaching a holon energy to scizor seems useless,
but dont forget it provide one energy, better than nothing LOL

[SomethingElse]

Guys, that's why he said cities
Last I checked, Arcanine ex isn't legal for cities ;/

[supertyranitar]

SMP is a great deck, that can't be denied. But I've said this once, I'll say it again, any deck can be beaten. True that Arcanine ex won't be legal for cities, but there are other fires, such as Cargo UF, or even Mewtwo D.

[Pokekid]

W5h<smp Imo

[Blaziken98]

Why is everyone freaking over Siczor and huffing and puffing about Arcanine Ex. I mean if you are that worried that everyone will be running SMP at CC's then why not anti it and not make cheap comments on ho cheap it is. SMP is a amazing deck but far from unbeatable just yesturday at a Local Tournement I played a SMP and managed to beat it with my ZRE just play smart and you can find it's weakness. Which I soon discovered was If you take out one tanked Scizor you just bought yourself a couple of prizes and turns. It will take them at least 2-3 turns to get another fully tanked Scizor and if you run Battle Frontiers this could make things much more compleiated for them to revive Scizor. During these turn just start a slaughter (Which I did with my tanked QuazaEx hitting for 160 every turn) get up on prizes or if possible just end the game there.
Anyway I would also like to say a SMP versus a Ludicargo sould end with SMP winning. Unless the Cargo Techs Desert Ruins and instead of the usually Rydon or Lantern techs if they run a 2-2 on Weezing (Liability) The could make easy work of SMP.

[Shiloh Phoenix]

heh, once again, I'll defend my favorite deck. Powcham can eat SMP alive, the shut down is terribly crippling, and if you can take the scizors out before they're active, then GG. and stop using metagross as a good attacker against medicham, IT'S NOT. It seems to be in theory, but when appiled to a real life situation, it does a face plant. :biggrin:

[blastoise1992]

heh, once again, I'll defend my favorite deck. Powcham can eat SMP alive, the shut down is terribly crippling, and if you can take the scizors out before they're active, then GG. and stop using metagross as a good attacker against medicham, IT'S NOT. It seems to be in theory, but when appiled to a real life situation, it does a face plant. :biggrin:

Thank you. *Bows*

[ShawofMordor]

I haven't read anything but the first post, but since there are so many replies I'd just like to say I am pretty sure he was kidding since its not that great of a deck and there are multiple decks out there that beat it.

[rokman]

Thank you. *Bows*Bowing to him is similar to shooting yourself in the face...

b0n3z, sneasel and slowking weren't baned becuase of that... people just whined too much, there was a complete obvious counter to it staring everyone in the face, but no one saw it...

and Supertyranitar is right...

[Myn_donos]

Oh, Salamence-Delta OHKOs Scizor? Well Pidgeot + Strength Charm OHKOs Salamence-Delta. GG.

*Except for maybe Four-Corners, but that deck sucks anyway.

HAHAHAHAHA Delta species salamance has 110 HP, Pidgeot cant kill it, lmao!!!!!! 50X2=100.... WHOOOPS! 10 off LOL!

that is going to be such a common mistake i see it walready, some scrub is going to send out pidget and be like "haha, i hit you for 100, knocked out i win" and the sally player will be like "haha, steel energy and 110 hp, u hit me for 60 damage, life herb, heads, im fully healed, discard a card, and hit you for 100, their goes pidgeot"

im gonna laugh when ppl make that mistake :rolleyes:

[Techmaster2kx]

I concur that Scizor/Gross or SMP is a great deck yes, but can it handle a speed eeveelution?

[Benlugia]

HAHAHAHAHA Delta species salamance has 110 HP, Pidgeot cant kill it, lmao!!!!!! 50X2=100.... WHOOOPS! 10 off LOL!

that is going to be such a common mistake i see it walready, some scrub is going to send out pidget and be like "haha, i hit you for 100, knocked out i win" and the sally player will be like "haha, steel energy and 110 hp, u hit me for 60 damage, life herb, heads, im fully healed, discard a card, and hit you for 100, their goes pidgeot"

im gonna laugh when ppl make that mistake :rolleyes:

i'm gonna laugh when people play life herb in a deck at cities.

[sceptilerancher]

start laughing ,im playin it at cities

[rokman]

I concur that Scizor/Gross or SMP is a great deck yes, but can it handle a speed eeveelution?o_o If it can't, I will quit pokemon.i'm gonna laugh when people play life herb in a deck at cities.start laughing ,im playin it at citiesroflmao... XD

[BANGINBOX]

Thank you. *Bows*

What part of Ohio do you play in?

I could use another City medal from a new state. :wink:

jimmy

[ryanvergel]

Healix plays life herb, so boom yah suckas!

Not that healix is very viable right now...

[SomethingElse]

o_o If it can't, I will quit pokemon.roflmao... XD
My list can beat SMP....;/

[Myn_donos]

start laughing ,im playin it at cities

im playing it as well.

[Benlugia]

hm. okay then.
no. comment.

[TheDancingPeanut]

Its good, but at least your opponent gets to play.
Probably the best deck in the format, but beatable.
Next, please.

[SuperWooper]

Probably the best deck in the format, but beatable.

For once we agree. O_o

[Flaming_Spinach]

HAHAHAHAHA Delta species salamance has 110 HP, Pidgeot cant kill it, lmao!!!!!! 50X2=100.... WHOOOPS! 10 off LOL!


Thanks. You just repeated what 4 people already said. It was like midnight when I said that, so stop treating me like I'm some sort of idiot. I was off by 10 HP. So sue me. Sheesh.


Hmmm...
I think there's another Pokemon in SMP that can do 110 damage to something with 3 energy on it, but I'm not going to say what it is because someone will misinterpret it, or tell me how much it doesn't work.


Oh yeah, and if you see your opponent is playing Typhlosion, who in their right mind would set up a Scizor?

[TacC]

No way. Its arguably the best card but best deck? Top 5 probably. There are a lot of decks that win consistently that will beat SMP 60/40 or better and 80/20 the rest of the field.

[afirule]

i'd like to see scizor ex and all his metal buddies go up against my fire type delta salamence deck :thumb:

[blastoise1992]

yea me tooo but with crystal shard :lol: :lol: :lol:

[blastoise1992]

What part of Ohio do you play in?

I could use another City medal from a new state. :wink:

jimmy

South-central ohio

[wishirulz]

i have one question, how can u play scizor ex wen scyther ex is now unlimited format!

[Dom]

You can't.

j/k

It can evolve from Scyther.

[Prime]

Prime wonders why there is 5 pages discussing how a deck is or isn't the best deck before the city championships even happens. Prime can't predict the future, and he feels neither can anyone else.

[ColdFire64]

HAHAHAHAHA Delta species salamance has 110 HP, Pidgeot cant kill it, lmao!!!!!! 50X2=100.... WHOOOPS! 10 off LOL!

that is going to be such a common mistake i see it walready, some scrub is going to send out pidget and be like "haha, i hit you for 100, knocked out i win" and the sally player will be like "haha, steel energy and 110 hp, u hit me for 60 damage, life herb, heads, im fully healed, discard a card, and hit you for 100, their goes pidgeot"

im gonna laugh when ppl make that mistake :rolleyes:***sigh, I've been wanting to say this for a LONG time now....

Luke, do you honestly take pride in your arrogant "elitest" attitude? Calling people scrubs and sallys, what are you honestly trying to prove? To me it is the usual, "You are a n00b, and I'm better than all of you" dork/nerd attitude that you like to display at all the leagues, including Anders' league. To think that a Pokemon Professor such as you would have such an attitude just sickens me. What you should be doing is helping out the little kids and also try making their decks better by helping them out with deck building. A real professor shouldn't have to think twice about that.

Sure, we all have our "OMG I can't believe I came back like that" kind of win, but you seem to always take that over the top and rub it into people's face by rubbing them the wrong way. How would you honestly feel if the someone showed such a "bully" attitude towards you every time you lost a battle? It wouldn't surprise me if most of the kids who attend these leagues are no longer motivated/have self esteem to win, let alone play, because of such an elitest attitude like yours.

Most of the time, I only see you playing against the kids, which you seem to take pride in beating them since you gloat about a turn one win right afterwards. I guess I'll just have to sit back and wait to see who will be doing the gloating "in your face" attitude after cities. :nonono: :rolleyes:

Who cares if you are a good player? Do you honestly think people care? If I were you I would be trying to shape up your attitude and show some more respect for the players at our leagues, especially the little kids.

[Dom]

Calling people sallys? He just meant the player using Salamence. Sally = Salamence.

Although true a better way to put it may've been "Pidgeot isn't an effective Salamence d counter".

[Martin]

SMP = The best deck in the format. Why? It carries the most favorable matches. That is all though. ZRE is a close match up, and it completely loses to Ludi. Definitly a contendor, but in no way ruining the format.

[ColdFire64]

Calling people sallys? He just meant the player using Salamence. Sally = Salamence. :lol: Oh, is that all it meant? Well he still shouldn't be calling people scrubs either. :rolleyes:

[JokerBoi]

I have no clue why everyone is going crazy over a darn SMP! I am sorry but if you play scizor just the right way you can beat it with any kind of deck. I just dont see how much of a treat he can be before he already has the 60 damage on him. I am really ready to talk about this thread I just dont have the time right now.

[Pokekid]

Originaly posted by Benlugia-"i'm gonna laugh when people play life herb in a deck at cities."

prob a little late posting this but yah, im playign life herb to :wink: and potion and sitrus berry :biggrin:

[ARMondak]

Pokekid - I'm assuming you're running Steelix?

And while PMS is good, there are many, many weaknesses.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Too bad they're all guaraded secrets. Except for "typhlozion FTW" and "just kill one and gg."

[Benlugia]

Originaly posted by Benlugia-"i'm gonna laugh when people play life herb in a deck at cities."

prob a little late posting this but yah, im playign life herb to :wink: and potion and sitrus berry :biggrin:

once again, i will say "meh".

[Myn_donos]

:lol: Oh, is that all it meant? Well he still shouldn't be calling people scrubs either. :rolleyes:

Calling people sallys? He just meant the player using Salamence. Sally = Salamence.

Although true a better way to put it may've been "Pidgeot isn't an effective Salamence d counter".(probably, but would it have gottenthe poitn across of how silly pidgeot is to counter sally d???)

LMAO dude, sally=salamance :rolleyes:

as for the term scrub, i take it from the article written by dld4a.

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25610

so, how long have u wanted to rip me a new one over nothing? dude, the little kids come play me(after i beat them, i let them know what they can do to make their deck better) and turn 1 win is quite a bit of fun :wink: not many can claim doing that on a regular basis, so i am quite happy when i do that. i try and play rasple, ron, roberto and jeff most of the time. me and kevin dont play each other, cause we usually always facing for first and second at tournaments, so no point in playing each other at league. the rest are little kids, and if the older groups are always facing off agaisnt each other, then who else am i going to play? the little kids come to me, if no one is open, ill ask them to battle. so please refrain from calling me an elitist for future reference, as i help them with their decks after i beat them u can cal me a scrub if you would like as i will admit, i am a person who wants to be origenal, i have the willt o win, but a fun deck that is origenal(bellossom deck) i will gladly say i am a scrub.

[raikou33]

Scizor Ex isn't TOO hard to beat, especially if you attack it with attacks that PUT damage rather than do damage (like Metang for example). Scizor Ex isn't really played much around here, but if you guys are worried about this card, then throw something in to counter it, like a fire deck! Typhlosion Ex would be a great counter, and powers up quickly thnaks to its "Bursting Up" PokePower. It's best to KO that thing in one hit rather than let it get to 60- HP, and so far I think Fire is the best way to put this thing out. Maybe when we get Arcanine Ex the bug will be damaged goods...

i agree w/ you chris your fire deck can rip through a steel deck like that

[Metagross_Ex]

Well, with some City Championships starting this weekend, I guess we'll all see how well SMP does. But I do have a question: how good is it in mirror matches?

[supertyranitar]

Well mirror, it all depends on who gets set up faster really. Who ever can get set up faster should be able to win.

[ZAKtheGeek]

"Good" or "bad" in mirrors is a very paradoxical concept. I mean, if you're playing a SMP deck, and you say it's bad in mirrors, doesn't that mean that all other SMP decks are GOOD in mirrors? How does that make sense?

Without tech, mirrors are purely luck and skill.

[Rulemaster]

i agree with martin

[SomethingElse]

Mirrors should be 50/50 =p
variance of skill changes that

[rokman]

Without tech, mirrors are purely luck and skill.Sorry to break your heart, but luck and skill determine every game whether it be mirror or not...

[blastoise1992]

variance of skill changes that
A mirror isnt a mirror unless its 50/50

[ZAKtheGeek]

With most matchups, the deck which has the advantage is determined before the game even starts. From there, luck and skill kick in.

In a mirror, there is no such predetermination.

That's what I meant.

[charking]

With most matchups, the deck which has the advantage is determined before the game even starts. From there, luck and skill kick in.
Wrong.

[PokeMasterFlabface]

I don't think undefeatable...I have my own Scizor deck that wins a lot...but not all the time. There is one deck that can defeat it almost all the time...if I reveal it...everyone will have it. ;)

[Prime]

Wrong.

Oh! Sorry, we were looking for, "right". Too bad.

[ZAKtheGeek]

It sure is nice of people to tell you you're wrong, but then not explain themselves. In any way.

[rokman]

With most matchups, the deck which has the advantage is determined before the game even starts. From there, luck and skill kick in.It is wrong for one simple reason. A bad hand can only get you so far...

So luck determines how well you do in the match with your opening hand and topdecks. During the match how you play your cards and your skill determines if you win or not, no matter what deck you are playing.

[Ninjaskfan]

mirror match simply means that the decks are identical/near identical, that is my understanding, the skill and luck of the draw of a player determines who will win, not the deck itself. Heck take this for example(a friend pointed this out to me)

Player 1: tyrogue as active, evolves into hitmonchan, attach boost, the game is over.
Player 2: unless there is a bench, he loses before his turn starts.

mirror match. if player 1 had a tech against another baby deck, then of course odds would be on him, but just because a tech is in there(ursaring plus ATM rock, stops baby evolution so you cant re-evolve) but even if player 2 did that have tech in there, it wouldnt matter, because he nver got it out.

so in summery, in "mirror" matches techs dont always give the advantge to the techer.

[Prime]

It's not wrong. Bad hands are items of luck that occur AFTER the match has started. Before the match even starts, bad matchups can play a huge part in who had the advantage throughout the game. How many times do you hear people say auto-loss? I heard it a billion times during worlds. "___ and ___ were matched up against auto-losses.." etc, etc. And really, matchups can play a large part in who wins the match. If your playing blaziken and the opponent is playing rock-lock, even before the match starts, you know the rock-lock player has the advantage because rock-lock is good against blaziken. Every deck has it's weaknesses and when you run up against them, even before the match starts, you can see that your going to have problems.

There's nothing wrong with that.

[ryanvergel]

A mirror match is the same deck, or nearly identical deck....

What changes a 50/50 mirror match? skill level variance between the two players. what again changes the outcome after skill level? luck in topdecking and opening hands.

[charking]

Oh! Sorry, we were looking for, "right". Too bad.
Nice try at trolling.

Anyway, as for explaining, decks don't have skill levels. Players do. Take a world champ deck and let a noob use it, and give an experienced player a deck with only commons & uncommons. The experienced player would win 9/10 times.

[DarkLordSigma]

Liability rips it a new one. kthxbai

[charking]

Liability rips it a new one. kthxbai
The truth.

But watch out for Holon Energy WP(which I don't think your average Scizor EX deck plays :tongue: )

[ZAKtheGeek]

I never claimed that, if you knew what decks the players were using ahead of time, you could call the match before it happened; merely that one would have an advantage. Surely you agree?

Meanwhile, in a mirror, no such predisposition exists. Thus luck, skill, and techs will be of the most importance.

Now, how is that wrong?

[TacC]

But watch out for Holon Energy WP(which I don't think your average Scizor EX deck plays :tongue: )I don't know what good WP would be but hey, good luck. Free retreat for Gardy and Metagross? I spose that's almost a little good.

[charking]

I never claimed that, if you knew what decks the players were using ahead of time, you could call the match before it happened; merely that one would have an advantage. Surely you agree?

Meanwhile, in a mirror, no such predisposition exists. Thus luck, skill, and techs will be of the most importance.

Now, how is that wrong?
In most cases, you can't predict who'd win before the match starts. There's just too many variables.
I don't know what good WP would be but hey, good luck. Free retreat for Gardy and Metagross? I spose that's almost a little good.
The W part of WP. You know, the part that would prevent Liability's placing of damage counters.

[Dom]

I won't post any obnoxious comments, but I'll just point out that the Holon Energies' effects don't work on Pokémon-ex.

[ZAKtheGeek]

In most cases, you can't predict who'd win before the match starts. There's just too many variables.
I never claimed that, if you knew what decks the players were using ahead of time, you could call the match before it happened; merely that one would have an advantage. Surely you agree?

Meanwhile, in a mirror, no such predisposition exists. Thus luck, skill, and techs will be of the most importance.

Now, how is that wrong?
Are you even paying attention?

[SuperWooper]

I won't post any obnoxious comments, but I'll just point out that the Holon Energies' effects don't work on Pokémon-ex.

On the other hand, I will be obnoxious. ;/ Charking, whenever you post on these kinds of threads, you bring with you a negativity and a naïvety that inspire me to throw up. I love your posts. "Wrong," and "The Truth." Your attitude should not carry over into debates like this, especially your anti-leetist tendencies, and that's what I can see happening. Just keep an objective standpoint whenever you argue about something like this, please.

Yeah, anyway, Scizor is good, but it can be beaten. As far as I can tell, even with my limited amount of experience with Unseen Forces and Delta Species cards playwise, deevolution would kill it, so Rock-Lock and E-on Lock would be deadly foes. Dragonite looks like it could beat it, too, with the return of Rainbow (Holon's 'Ton and Holon's 'Trode), because it has the better energy manipulation and a similar damage output between Rocket's Sneasel ex and Scizor ex. Ludicolo looks like it might be able to do some damage as well. Plusle hitting early and Magcargo UF and Ninetales hitting mid-late look like they could take Scizor out fairly easily. Not sure about Nidoqueen, but I'm willing to bet it could hold its own. Looks to be somewhere close to 50-50 in my estimation, but I'm sure one deck has an advantage. I haven't tested much.

SMP will be good. It won't be Eon Blaziken. This format's too diverse.

[charking]

On the other hand, I will be obnoxious. ;/ Charking, whenever you post on these kinds of threads, you bring with you a negativity and a naïvety that inspire me to throw up. I love your posts. "Wrong," and "The Truth." Your attitude should not carry over into debates like this, especially your anti-leetist tendencies, and that's what I can see happening. Just keep an objective standpoint whenever you argue about something like this, please.
I have NO idea what brought this up, but obviously you have something aginst me. I apologise for whatever that may be.

As for Scizor EX, I've been fortunate enough to only face it once, and I won. Though I was using Fire. I somehow don't feel right winning only because of weakness, but that's how the game is, and you gotta do what you gotta do... Anyway, I'll just bring a strong deck with me to cities. No teching aginst anything(except it's natural weaknesses), just strong overall. My opinion is that everyone should try this, because you most likely will get supprised by another archtype and be totally unprepared for it because you concentrated on beating Scizor. Those who play Scizor... I really have nothing aginst them, but it's like any other deck.

Then again, my opinion never REALLY mattered :tongue:

[afirule]

yea me tooo but with crystal shard :lol: :lol: :lol:

i hate to sound like a "oh no but i play this card and pwn u!!!111!!23!!!!" but with delta salamence you play holon ff energy. with a fire it means no weakness.

im not trying to start an argument, im trying to put forward the case for a very strong deck

[Articjedi]

Then again, my opinion never REALLY mattered :tongue:

That's actually the only thing I agree with you with this entire topic.

Scizor is beatable, we've actually gotten into a format where not everything is an autowin or auto loss, unless you're playing against one of my secret decks for cities =D

[charking]

That's actually the only thing I agree with you with this entire topic.
That was sarcasm, and your being a jerk for no reason.
Scizor is beatable, we've actually gotten into a format where not everything is an autowin or auto loss
And that's not agreeing with me... how?

Seriously, you guys need to stop. I just want to get along with you, and this is seriously hurting my feelings. Does one person's opinion bother you that much...?

[ZAKtheGeek]

It hits me pretty hard when people state their opinions as fact, especially without any backing. I'm not sure why.

[SuperWooper]

That was sarcasm, and your being a jerk for no reason.

Wrong.

...

^ Do you see why that could be interpreted as uncooperative?

[charking]

Wrong.

...

^ Do you see why that could be interpreted as uncooperative?
Ppl say things like that to me without provocation. I couldn't see why I couldn't say that to anyone else the same way.
It hits me pretty hard when people state their opinions as fact, especially without any backing. I'm not sure why.
I have a habit of giving my opinion that way. I'd never claim something as a fact without knowing solid evidence. Sorry if I came off that way. >.<

[ZAKtheGeek]

To that point, you've still to provide any evidence in the matter... And I don't really think it's one that has no answers more solid than opinions.

[charking]

To that point, you've still to provide any evidence in the matter... And I don't really think it's one that has no answers more solid than opinions.
I'm well aware of that.

Anyway, we should really get back on topic...

I'm most likely playing Tyranicargo at cities. SCEX don't bother me at all. What does bother me are those Dark Slowking decks.

[Scizor]

All of this over CITY CHAMPIONSHIPS, pathetic. SMP isn't even the best deck.

[ZAKtheGeek]

I'm thinking of using tyranitar ex... the ability to take out many opponents in one hit if need be is apparently rather useful.

[charking]

I'm thinking of using tyranitar ex... the ability to take out many opponents in one hit if need be is apparently rather useful.
Nice idea. Plus, this is also where Dark Metal comes in handy. Crush Drawing AND a heavy hitter... plus the option of Tyranitar δ using Holon Energy FF to beatdown Grass.

And I've discovered that Mewtwo δ is a potential powerhouse aginst Pokémon that tend to horde their deck's energies. Yes, that includes SCEX :tongue:

[ZAKtheGeek]

I've thought about it, but personally I don't know that crush draw is particularly useful in a tyranitar ex deck, since it'll have a large emphasis on special energy.

[charking]

I've thought about it, but personally I don't know that crush draw is particularly useful in a tyranitar ex deck, since it'll have a large emphasis on special energy.
Crush Draw a Fire/Fighting, then return it to your hand for Holon's Ton/Trode. There's also Bill's Maintainence to shuffle the basic NRGs to the deck for more CDing.

Random idea. Hope that might help.

[Pokekid]

Pokekid - I'm assuming you're running Steelix?

And while PMS is good, there are many, many weaknesses.

Steelix, nasty card, there a card 10x better than that its a fighting pokemon, alli can tell you :wink:

[charking]

Steelix, nasty card, there a card 10x better than that its a fighting pokemon, alli can tell you :wink:
Scramble+UF Cargo=160 damage.

[Pokekid]

UF cargo is okay but this pokemon im talkign about can win you almost ANY the game in 30 seconds depending how many poke your opponent has out. :wink:

[spoinkmaster]

Duh, WHISCASH!!!

[Dom]

Yeah, people who state their opinions as fact are idiots. Fact.

[KG1337]

thank god i wasnt eating when i was reading this thread or else i woulda puked all over my screen

1.POW CHAM BEATING SCIZOR???!!!
Who are you playing? DREW HOLTON!!! Powcham is like 0/100 vs Scizor unless it gets absolute trash

2.You guys dont seem to know how to play Scizor
Do you guys realize that you can pretty much win a lot of matchups without dropping a Scizor?
Liability folds to Scizor if i dont drop it

3. Overrated? I dunno about that. Maybe some of you guys overrate it but its certainly a good deck with a few weaknesses. Certainly not impregnable.

[Poliwag92]

why hasnt this thread been locked yet??? Other people made a thread with similar words to this one yet theres get locked. They are all equal declarations of a deck so why does this one stay unlocked?

[Pokekid]

Duh, WHISCASH!!!

shhh keep it secret :wink:

[Flaming_Spinach]

1.POW CHAM BEATING SCIZOR???!!!
Who are you playing? DREW HOLTON!!! Powcham is like 0/100 vs Scizor unless it gets absolute trash

2.You guys dont seem to know how to play Scizor
Do you guys realize that you can pretty much win a lot of matchups without dropping a Scizor?
Liability folds to Scizor if i dont drop it


OMG!

Someone on these boards actually knows how to play? :eek: I truely don't believe it.

#2 is absolutelly true. Why don't people understand that?

[ryanvergel]

shhh keep it secret :wink:

doesnt matter if it leaks since no one knows how to use it

[ZAKtheGeek]

Soo... metagross can do stuff by itself? Like, a game's worth of stuff? Hard to believe, but I'll take it...

[spoinkmaster]

doesnt matter if it leaks since no one knows how to use it
Exactly

[blastoise1992]

anything can beat scizor if the players good

[ZAKtheGeek]

Sure, anything can... But it has to get lucky.

[Curry]

or they can play wishcash :thumb:

[JokerBoi]

All I have to say is I wont believe it until I see I have tried Scizor so many different times and it just doesnt seem to work the way you guys says it does. I guess I will just have to wait and see people have always been able to show be better than they can tell me.

[smoknhasheesh360]

when i think abotu it, i think my tyranitar ex deck has a chance against it. tyranitar has 160 hp plus it nulifies the metal energy attached to scizor with my dark energy, that combined with the fact that tyranitar ex can discard a special energy card is very powerfull. if tyranitar ex didnt have so much hp, it wouldnt stand a chance to scizor ex.

[smoknhasheesh360]

oh and its last attack does 120. good stuff. oh and if anyone needs any details on how that works , plz respond

[blastoise1992]

If you can discard energy (ER2) like metal then drop a fire pokemon and KO scizor

[KG1337]

uh huh

ya which fire pokemon to drop =/

again, the deck doesnt need to revolve around scizor. You guys just dont seem to understand that theres OTHER POKEMON in the deck too.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Tyranitar resists metagross. Pigeot is just frightening.

Tyranitar has some other unfortunate matchups, though. Depending on how you run it, its weaknesses can be very painful experiences, like with nidoqueen. Might just be my deck, but I also had trouble against ZRE.

[KG1337]

thats why SMP plays a tech Magnetic Storm.

[Metagross_Ex]

Well, cities in 3 days. Since there seems to be a chance of SMP being played here (though I wouldn't know since I don't partake in league play that much), I'm going to begin testing aginast it.

[samantha bruck 05]

uh huh

ya which fire pokemon to drop =/

again, the deck doesnt need to revolve around scizor. You guys just dont seem to understand that theres OTHER POKEMON in the deck too.

well think about this, tyranitar ex is resistant to psychic, its good because a lot of pokemon in that deck are psychic

[ToysRUsKid]

well think about this, tyranitar ex is resistant to psychic, its good because a lot of pokemon in that deck are psychic

Hmm.

Pidgeot = Colorless
Scizor = Metal
Magnetic Storm = Colorless.

And Your Point is now?

[bass_forte]

well think about this, tyranitar ex is resistant to psychic, its good because a lot of pokemon in that deck are psychic
thats why SMP plays a tech Magnetic Storm.

Adding to TRUK's post.

[blastoise1992]

uh huh

ya which fire pokemon to drop =/

again, the deck doesnt need to revolve around scizor. You guys just dont seem to understand that theres OTHER POKEMON in the deck too.

Any fire pokemon and whats the deck supposed to rely upon Pidgeot? :lol:

[Scizor]

Last I checked Metagross and Deoxys were good attackers, which *GASP* you PLAY!

[KG1337]

as Scizor said...

METAGROSS/DEOXYS and also, Pidgeot could own a couple houndooms if u asked me =/

[Pablo]

this is just a very stupid thread, scizor is good, very good, and anyone who can't see beyond the actual Scizor card in the deck *coughblastoise1992cough* is not worth discussing with IMO, this turned from an actual discussion on the deck to people trying to explain the very basic strategy of it, City's will speak for themselves, so get over it, this would be better closed.

[charking]

this is just a very stupid thread, scizor is good, very good, and anyone who can't see beyond the actual Scizor card in the deck *coughblastoise1992cough* is not worth discussing with IMO, this turned from an actual discussion on the deck to people trying to explain the very basic strategy of it, City's will speak for themselves, so get over it, this would be better closed.
Now there's no reason to insult anyone like that... maybe he just thinks that we should discuss one thing at a time, or maybe that's the only thing he has trouble with aginst that deck.

Cities are just days away anyway, so most preparations and deckbuilding have already been done.

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

Scizor probably will now win the most cities for an individual deck since no other deck is getting this type of attention, especially after this thread. It won't win near half and isn't the best deck though.

[Final Blizzard]

I like the name :biggrin:

[Prime]

I agree with Pidgeotto Trainer. I wonder when Avmozz will start selling Scizor EX's to the public.

[a_shy_girl_1999]

i must beat smp!! :biggrin: lol, its hard...

[samantha bruck 05]

Hmm.

Pidgeot = Colorless
Scizor = Metal
Magnetic Storm = Colorless.

And Your Point is now?

here is my point, tyranitar ex can discard any stadium in play, two my ampharos has resistant to scizor ex , oh and pidgeot is weakness to electric pokemon the last time i checked, there is my point. its funny, i didnt make this deck to destroy the scizor ex deck, but yet it has the ability to

[bass_forte]

TTar will get killed VERY quickly by SMP. It uses that attack (Derail? I have a bad memory), Scizor does 80 - 120 to it, TTar attaches another energy and Scizor loses a metal, Scizor uses Metal Claw/Cross Cut, TTar dies. NEXT!

Metagross will get killed by TTar, on one condition. IF TTar has enough energy. And considering SMP's speed, it probably won't. Pidgeot would only be used to attack dragon types anyway, and Deoxys just PWNs overall. If TTar is ready to Lose Control, Deoxys can do 50+20+20+20+20, ie, 130. Take off 30 for resistance, assuming Magnetic Storm isn't in play, and 100 damage will still kill TTar in 2 turns. Granted, you lose Deoxys after that, but you'd only be attacking with Deoxys anyway because Scizor a) isn't present, or b) isn't ready. And that's unlikely.

As for Ampharos? Say hello to Metagross and Deoxys ex.

[ToysRUsKid]

here is my point, tyranitar ex can discard any stadium in play, two my ampharos has resistant to scizor ex , oh and pidgeot is weakness to electric pokemon the last time i checked, there is my point. its funny, i didnt make this deck to destroy the scizor ex deck, but yet it has the ability to

rofl.

Explain to me how your ttar will stop my Deoxys when I drop Storm that turn =\. OR If that person plays a Crystal Shard? OOps?

Amphy v. Scizor. I heard Metagross is decent, as well as Deoxys and Scizor only does 50 v. it, you damage it, and it'll ohko you. Its a LOSE - LOSE Situation for ya.

Why in the world would I send up Pidgeot to attack your Amphy when its not in KO Range?

Strike 3, Your Out :)

[Myn_donos]

toysruskid, i think he/she was making the point of that it can, not all scizor gross plays deoxys ex. but i dont know of anything that is in scizor gorss that can take down nintales HL(safegaurd) in one hit.... if you haev an idea though, let me know so i can counter it.

[bass_forte]

toysruskid, i think he/she was making the point of that it can, not all scizor gross plays deoxys ex. but i dont know of anything that is in scizor gorss that can take down nintales HL(safegaurd) in one hit.... if you haev an idea though, let me know so i can counter it.

Metagross! >_>

If they have 3 energy each (which they probably do), Ninetales takes 70 damage and gets killed.

[Martin]

Bottom line, I invented SMP. Where's my trophy?

[TheDancingPeanut]

Bottom line, I invented SMP. Where's my trophy?

Yeah, not only that, didn't you invent the moon and that whole turning of the tides thing?

[samantha bruck 05]

rofl.

Explain to me how your ttar will stop my Deoxys when I drop Storm that turn =\. OR If that person plays a Crystal Shard? OOps?

Amphy v. Scizor. I heard Metagross is decent, as well as Deoxys and Scizor only does 50 v. it, you damage it, and it'll ohko you. Its a LOSE - LOSE Situation for ya.

Why in the world would I send up Pidgeot to attack your Amphy when its not in KO Range?

Strike 3, Your Out :)

look there are a lot of thingss than can happen, im justpointing out some of the possibilities of what may happen, oh and how many stadiums does this deck run, i have only heard of island cave, i didn't now that theyrun magnetic storm with it. anyways, the only thing that i can';t contend with SMP is its speed.

look here is my decklist maybe we can see a litttle more with this

1 cleffa 3 darkness energy
2 paras 4 grass energy
2 parasect 3 fighting energy
2 mareep 3 lightning energy
2 flaffy 2 holon's electrode
2 ampharos
2 pidgey
1 pidgeyotto
2 pidgeot
2 larvitar
1 pupitar
2 T-tar ex
4 rare candy
3 rocket's admin.
2 steven's advice
2 copycat
3 celio's network
3 Professor elm's
2 fluffy berry
1 mr. stone's project
1 holon farmer
1 pokemon retriever
1 Mr. Briney's Compassion
! Atm rock
i could say that i would briney's up t-tar, but all we would be doin is go back and forth,.

[ZAKtheGeek]

You also can't do that, because briney's can target ex's.

[Dom]

You can use Briney's on TTar ex. Its the only EX you're allowed to use it on.

[samantha bruck 05]

TTar will get killed VERY quickly by SMP. It uses that attack (Derail? I have a bad memory), Scizor does 80 - 120 to it, TTar attaches another energy and Scizor loses a metal, Scizor uses Metal Claw/Cross Cut, TTar dies. NEXT!

Metagross will get killed by TTar, on one condition. IF TTar has enough energy. And considering SMP's speed, it probably won't. Pidgeot would only be used to attack dragon types anyway, and Deoxys just PWNs overall. If TTar is ready to Lose Control, Deoxys can do 50+20+20+20+20, ie, 130. Take off 30 for resistance, assuming Magnetic Storm isn't in play, and 100 damage will still kill TTar in 2 turns. Granted, you lose Deoxys after that, but you'd only be attacking with Deoxys anyway because Scizor a) isn't present, or b) isn't ready. And that's unlikely.

As for Ampharos? Say hello to Metagross and Deoxys ex.

ampahros is used to bing up energy on t-tar ex and with parasect putting up energy on my guys
i can power up t-tar when it comes out in one turn, but like i said before, we be going back and forth, and i don't see y the same guy that started this thread, started 2 other threads in the same form. like the ZRE thread.

[BANGINBOX]

, and i don't see y the same guy that started this thread, started 2 other threads in the same form. like the ZRE thread.

I did NOT start those other 2 posts. Reading lessons at 8pm. lol

Listen people, I appreciate all the hype about this. Most of you have disagreed with my theory on what will win cities. However all the things that you say will beat Scizor will not be good enough to meke the top cut. So while Scizor consistantly makes the cut and wins cities..... you'll be looking from the outside in.

Just remember one thing.......
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!

Jimmy

[samantha bruck 05]

I did NOT start those other 2 posts. Reading lessons at 8pm. lol

Listen people, I appreciate all the hype about this. Most of you have disagreed with my theory on what will win cities. However all the things that you say will beat Scizor will not be good enough to meke the top cut. So while Scizor consistantly makes the cut and wins cities..... you'll be looking from the outside in.

Just remember one thing.......
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!

Jimmy
yea maybe not, but i here the same crap from those threads like as if u started them. litteraly, they ahve he same format.

[meganium45]

yeah, SB05, so what?

Banginbox has won enough events, as have his kids, that you should pay SOME attention to what he is saying?

Why?

Why not?

What benefit did he have in bringing this thread? To help people predict a dominant deck?

Here is my advice to you. Go win something, and then help out the community with your observations, and stop taking shots at those who are actually trying to help you all figure out something that wins!

Man, I should not post when I am ticked off.

M45

[TheDancingPeanut]

Just remember to take everything like with a grain of salt. I'm not saying BB is trying to influence the enviornment, but let's be honest - posts such as this CAN and DO change what even some of the BEST players play. You gotta stick to your own guns and make your own choices.

[KG1337]

look there are a lot of thingss than can happen, im justpointing out some of the possibilities of what may happen, oh and how many stadiums does this deck run, i have only heard of island cave, i didn't now that theyrun magnetic storm with it. anyways, the only thing that i can';t contend with SMP is its speed.

look here is my decklist maybe we can see a litttle more with this

1 cleffa 3 darkness energy
2 paras 4 grass energy
2 parasect 3 fighting energy
2 mareep 3 lightning energy
2 flaffy 2 holon's electrode
2 ampharos
2 pidgey
1 pidgeyotto
2 pidgeot
2 larvitar
1 pupitar
2 T-tar ex
4 rare candy
3 rocket's admin.
2 steven's advice
2 copycat
3 celio's network
3 Professor elm's
2 fluffy berry
1 mr. stone's project
1 holon farmer
1 pokemon retriever
1 Mr. Briney's Compassion
! Atm rock
i could say that i would briney's up t-tar, but all we would be doin is go back and forth,.


o thanks a bunch, that vomits been down there for DAYS

how does that beat SMP? Honestly.

[shiftrymaster68]

DX Grumpig+HL Ninetails+Scramble could stand a chance against it, but then it would fail against everything else(except Cham...hmmmmm).

[Jeremy Badeaux]

You can use Briney's on TTar ex. Its the only EX you're allowed to use it on.
I'm hoping that was sarcasm.

yeah, SB05, so what?

Banginbox has won enough events, as have his kids, that you should pay SOME attention to what he is saying?

Why?

Why not?

What benefit did he have in bringing this thread? To help people predict a dominant deck?

Here is my advice to you. Go win something, and then help out the community with your observations, and stop taking shots at those who are actually trying to help you all figure out something that wins!

Man, I should not post when I am ticked off.

M45
Okay, that seemed more like a personal attack and less like an on-topic post.

Banginbox has won events...
I'm guessing that Banginbox wouldn't have thought much of the current 15+ World champion deck(before it won anyways).

Just because you may like a person, or the person is normally right about this type of thing, does not mean that the person can't be wrong.

You're right, you shouldn't post when you're ticked off(more times then not, it leads to problems and things being said that should not be said).

Let's step back and take a logical look at the format, shall we?
There hasn't been a major modified event since worlds, so we don't really know how much Unseen Forces and Delta Species will affect modified on a large scale.

It would be safe to say that fire has always had a fairly significant role in modified, wouldn't it?
You may bring up the point of using Kingdra(TRR) to shut off the weakness, but that brings up the other side of it.
...
This topic has already been discussed, but how well does the deck do once it loses a "tanked" Scizor ex?

Yes, I suppose that one could argue that Metagross could be effectively used to conserve metal energy and bring it back from the discard pile(or, if used in conjunction with the Starmie from Delta Species, it could even be used as a method of speeding up the deck a little), but that brings us to the big point(aside from having to counter Battle Frontier).

You can't really run Kingdra and Metagross as backup in the same deck(which means that you will always have the inherent vulnerability to the loss of a "tanked" Scizor ex or a general weakness to fire Pokemon).

To top that off, numerous existing decks already have solid methods of countering Scizor ex.

If this was a well thought-out post that explained how something was overpowered, or why something needed to be banned(think back to right before Blaziken ex came out), then that would be one thing, but this appears to be nothing more than an attempt to convince people that Scizor ex is a deck that is about as dominant as BAR(with Blaziken ex) was and that just isn't true.

Allow me to correct myself... not even BAR won every single City Championship(which would mean that this deck would have to surpass BAR in dominance). :rolleyes:

Being that City Championships places nothing more than Delta Species on the line, I thank you kindly for what time you did put into this topic, but I honestly have no intention of basing any deck on your statements about the current state of the format.

I'm sorry if I ruffled any feathers with this post, but I'm just sharing my opinion on the matter(and that seems to be the soup of the day).

[ZAKtheGeek]

Saying that one deck will win everything is pretty much always a grand overstatement. I think this is the source of a lot of the tension expressed in this topic.

[Spotter]

For what its worth...

Two different SMP variants at the Richardson, TX CC today. Both of 'em went 2-2 in the Swiss, neither one made the top cut.

Yes, mine was one of 'em.

[EDITED 11/12/2005 19:11 CST]

Decklist, in case anyone's interested/can learn from this.

4 Beldum (HL 54)
2 Metang (DX 40)
1 Metang (HL 44)
2 Metagross (DX 11)
1 Metagross (DS 11)
2 Pidgey (FRLG 73)
1 Pidgeotto (FRLG 45)
2 Pidgeot (FRLG 10)
2 Scyther (UF 46)
2 Scizor ex (UF 108)
1 Deoxys ex (DX 98)
-------------
20 Pokémon

1 Cyclone Energy
2 Warp Energy
4 Metal Energy
8 Psychic Energy
-------------
15 Energy

4 Professor Elm's Training Method
4 Rare Candy
4 TV Reporter
3 Magnetic Storm
2 Copycat
2 Strength Charm
2 Dual Ball
1 Island Cave
1 Rocket's Admin.
1 Pokémon Retriever
1 Holon Farmer
-------------
25 Trainers

Went with the Holon Farmer because (a) Couldn't get a second Rocket's Admin and (b) I've noticed that when a game goes long, the deck of SMP tends to get a little thin. This is probably exaggerated by the next note.

Went with a Metagross D because of the highly-abusable Delta Control.

//Spotter

[Metagross_Ex]

Well, after playing against SMP at cities, I can say that it's a powerful deck, but can be beat.

[ZAKtheGeek]

...which is what people in this topic have been saying all along.

Well, several people.

[TheDancingPeanut]

There was hardly any SMP in Winter Haven, and I'm not even sure if any T8'd

[David's Confused Pokedad]

David went 3-2 with his SMP. the first loss to benching out which was strange since he had already taken prize cards in this match. The second loss was to a metagross/deoxy deck. I am sure he will see rematches.

[Curry]

There was hardly any SMP in Winter Haven, and I'm not even sure if any T8'd
ya there weren't many and none T8'd. the top 8 for winter haven looked like this.
1. T-tar ex/Umbreon ex/Dark Trode
2.Medidoom
3.Delta Sally
4.Metagross/Registeel
5.Delta Draggy/Amphy/Lugia ex
6.Ludicargo
7.Ludicargo
8.Dark Amphy/Crobat ex/Dark Crobat
i believe this is the correct order

[Articjedi]

our T4 looked like this

1. RL variation (me)
2. medicham variation
3. poliwrath (???)
4. RL variation

[Ruler of Ice]

its won 2 CC's so...Not undefeated....ofcoruse...ppl could have not played it

[Shadow]

Well, SMP won Aimes

[Skarmbliss]

Well the bad matchups it would be up against would be ZRE,ludicargo,dark disability with the fact that wezzing and crobat combined can KO scizor ex. Also dragtrode since it has alot of speed. Worst stadiums to go up against are dessert ruins and battle fronitier

[Cyrus]

I think that Gardevoir88 hit most of those matchups on the head, bar Dark Liability. ZRE is a really close matchup (some testing shows zre with an edge, and other testing shows SMP with one), Ludi and Dragonite are losses, but Dark Lia...? I highly doubt it.

[Rulemaster]

well i wont say who has the edge...but the 2 most popular stadiums are ANTI SMP. battle frontier and desert ruins. that should count for something. smp is losing steam with the new stuff i've been seeing :D

[Articjedi]

I think we can bury this now. Scizor didn't win again in kirkland today, anyone else have scizor losing?

[Water Pokemon Master]

I think that Gardevoir88 hit most of those matchups on the head, bar Dark Liability. ZRE is a really close matchup (some testing shows zre with an edge, and other testing shows SMP with one), Ludi and Dragonite are losses, but Dark Lia...? I highly doubt it.
If you are referring to Dark Draggy, there is absolutely no way Draggy is a loss. I played 9 games with SMP today and totally creamed three Draggy decks, starting off with a lone Pidgey for 2 of the games and having bad starts. Scizor can outspeed it and holds up way longer than Draggy can by far. If you mean Delta Draggy, then ignore this comment.

[Haunter176]

I played all decks except Medidoom and i won CC's in new york .... thats all i wanted to say ......
oh and it can be beaten nothing is "the best" mayb very good but not "the best" ^_^

[Cyrus]

I have tested that matchup a lot, but perhaps my findings are inaccurate? Oh well, then.

[KG1337]

no one played Scizor at Columbus

If someone did they woulda done horribly IMO

T-tar (delta, ex, spintail), DraggyGross EVERYWHERE

[Tommy's Back]

Draggygross is obviously the new dark dragonite, as it has JUST as many players as dark dragonite did last year. So smp is taking the place of rock-lock, and rock-lock taking the place of blaze, ironically this entire new format is almost a complete rehash of last year, i think this format is going to be balanced.

Tom

[PokemansForGeeks]

Darn, and I thought OML (DraggyGross) would remain a secret :mad:

[Pokekid]

any1 play whiscash at cities yet?

[Kempley05]

Nope, haven't seen any at any of my tourneys this season. Has a lot of potential, but doesn't do as well as it should

[ryanvergel]

No deck outspeeds a good draggy deck. In the old days, you had a t2 stage 2 with three energy one it, it was absolutely ridiculous. To say that a scizor deck would outspeed a draggy deck implies you played against a bad scizor deck.

If a dark draggy deck isn't up by t3, its not a good deck. I'd like to see an SMP with metagross/pidgeot/scizor ex by t3 and ready to go.

[SuperWooper]

If a dark draggy deck isn't up by t3, its not a good deck.

Because, of course, bad luck is non-existant in Pokemon. =/

[SuperWooper]

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!!

We sure did...
:rolleyes:

[supertyranitar]

If you are referring to Dark Draggy, there is absolutely no way Draggy is a loss. I played 9 games with SMP today and totally creamed three Draggy decks, starting off with a lone Pidgey for 2 of the games and having bad starts. Scizor can outspeed it and holds up way longer than Draggy can by far. If you mean Delta Draggy, then ignore this comment.

Dark Draggy can easily beat SMP, it can match damage, resistance, speed, disruption, I don't see how it got out speeded by SMP. I just don't see how. But it seems SMP isn't all big and mighty anymore, but more of Delta and old TR decks once more.

[ryanvergel]

We sure did...
:rolleyes:

He said he played it MULTIPLE times. Obviously I consistancy was implied if he said he beat a dragtrode MULTIPLE times. :nonono:

[IvesRountree]

well, this weekend we saw 2 city finals, both played by a scizor... both lost by a scizor, and it was no newbie who played the second one, it was mudkip, so the deck is good, but not flawless, BTW, if you wanna know, Fera Ex and magmar/Tyranitar/Electrode ex took the second one.

[SuperWooper]

He said he played it MULTIPLE times. Obviously I consistancy was implied if he said he beat a dragtrode MULTIPLE times. :nonono:

Haven't you ever had your deck not set up 4-5 games in a row? I have. 4-5 counts as "multiple", right?

[ryanvergel]

Haven't you ever had your deck not set up 4-5 games in a row? I have. 4-5 counts as "multiple", right?
Especially dragtrode, one of the most consistant decks ever made.

Unless I'm playing rocklock, even then it shouldn't happen 4-5 times in a row. Sure it might be .5% chance of happening, but realistically speaking, that doesn't happen any significant amount of times to impact the judgement of a deck.

[Crosplat]

Scizor is a good card and SMP is a good deck but you can beat it by playing smart and trying to T2 OHKO the Scythers. And one more thing: T2 Whiscach what the...

[Flaming_Spinach]

You guys should do some research before bashing Scizogross. It's currently tied with the most CC placings.

[ryanvergel]

You guys should do some research before bashing Scizogross. It's currently tied with the most CC placings.


Do you mean placings as in getting into a top cut? Because I could top cut with the crappiest deck alive, it's about winning the CC or getting into the final cut.

[TheDancingPeanut]

Do you mean placings as in getting into a top cut? Because I could top cut with the crappiest deck alive, it's about winning the CC or getting into the final cut.

I disagree.
As you and I both know (seeing as how neither of us T8'd very much last season) it is very, very difficult to make the cut and requires both skill in play and deck composition.
I think cutting is a major achievment.
There will always be factors of luck and matchups - that's why our goal should not be to win (something that we cannot control) but rather, it should be to compete at the highest level to which we are capable of on any given day.

[Martin]

My question is, does anybody here know how to play Pokemon?

Unuseable:
Liability - Not a deck
Dragonite - Not a deck
Delta Dragonite - Not a deck
Delta Dragonite + Metagross - Not only not a deck, but belongs in the shoebox
Ludicolo - The most irrelevent deck in the game
Medicham + Houndoom - Only beats the most irrelevent deck in the game

Useable:
Nidoqueen
TTar Varients
SMP
ZRE

"But Martin, everyone on the Pokegym says Delta Dragonite beats SMP!"

You're an idiot. You have no significant advantage over any kind of Metagross varient. You're also a dog VS ZRE, a deck you think you beat. Come on, I won't always be around to tell you people these things. Take my word for it.

[BANGINBOX]

My question is, does anybody here know how to play Pokemon?

Unuseable:
Liability - Not a deck
Dragonite - Not a deck
Delta Dragonite - Not a deck
Delta Dragonite + Metagross - Not only not a deck, but belongs in the shoebox
Ludicolo - The most irrelevent deck in the game
Medicham + Houndoom - Only beats the most irrelevent deck in the game

Useable:
Nidoqueen
TTar Varients
SMP
ZRE

"But Martin, everyone on the Pokegym says Delta Dragonite beats SMP!"

You're an idiot. You have no significant advantage over any kind of Metagross varient. You're also a dog VS ZRE, a deck you think you beat. Come on, I won't always be around to tell you people these things. Take my word for it.

FINALLY!!!! Someone who knows what they are talking about!!!! All you spammers will see soon enough what is gonna top the format..... 250 posts...JEEZ....

Remember SUPERWHOOPER......
You heard it here first!!!

Thanx Martin,
jimmy

[Ralph]

SMP is losing the majority of city championships and you're still holding onto the belief that it's at the top? Wow :rolleyes:

[ryanvergel]

I disagree.
As you and I both know (seeing as how neither of us T8'd very much last season) it is very, very difficult to make the cut and requires both skill in play and deck composition.
I think cutting is a major achievment.
There will always be factors of luck and matchups - that's why our goal should not be to win (something that we cannot control) but rather, it should be to compete at the highest level to which we are capable of on any given day.


I learned what a supporter was two weeks before REGIONALS, so I think I'm a tad better of a player now.

[Benlugia]

My question is, does anybody here know how to play Pokemon?

Unuseable:
Liability - Not a deck
Dragonite - Not a deck
Delta Dragonite - Not a deck
Delta Dragonite + Metagross - Not only not a deck, but belongs in the shoebox
Ludicolo - The most irrelevent deck in the game
Medicham + Houndoom - Only beats the most irrelevent deck in the game

Useable:
Nidoqueen
TTar Varients
SMP
ZRE

"But Martin, everyone on the Pokegym says Delta Dragonite beats SMP!"

You're an idiot. You have no significant advantage over any kind of Metagross varient. You're also a dog VS ZRE, a deck you think you beat. Come on, I won't always be around to tell you people these things. Take my word for it.

/agrees.
the only reason SMP might not be winning all cc's is because they are playing awful varients, or, they have just been having bad matchups.

[JokerBoi]

SMP is NOT the best deck out there it can be easily beat. The reason it is not winning CC's is not because the people playing them have been playing bad varients or have had bad match ups. The reason it is not winning because it is not as good as everyone claims it to be. It can easily be beat by any deck it just depends on what you draw. I well built rock-lock or dragtrode will toatally destroy SMP. I also dont see how it gets set up fast enough to be so darn good?

[Benlugia]

SMP is NOT the best deck out there it can be easily beat. The reason it is not winning CC's is not because the people playing them have been playing bad varients or have had bad match ups. The reason it is not winning because it is not as good as everyone claims it to be. It can easily be beat by any deck it just depends on what you draw. I well built rock-lock or dragtrode will toatally destroy SMP. I also dont see how it gets set up fast enough to be so darn good?

because it does get set up fast enough, and it is good.
i really don't feel like arguing about this though, considering you probably havent even been to a city championship this year (i was at one saturday, where, wouldn't you know it--SMP won). do i think it will win ALL cities? nah. do i think it will win a favorable amount though? probably.

[Shiloh Phoenix]

*waves medicham flag* *is shot*

[ryanvergel]

Rocklock... too inconsistant.
Let's face it, a good rocklock start will take down just about every other deck ever. (good today=plusle, energy, jirachi/swoop, celio, candy, whatever). The problem is you will not get the good starts often enough to warrant the use.
Sparce died. BF entered the picture... RL is =\