Game rules not covered in the RuleBook

[NoPoke]

Well hopefully this will turn into a nice neat set of guidelines for why rulings are the way they are..

1) When an attack places an effect. That effect has to reside on either the attacking or defending Pokémon.

2) Effects are cleared when a Pokémon evolves

3) Effects are cleared when a Pokémon is benched.

4) Markers eg colouring counters (ref PAINT) are not effects but are the result of an effect.

5) Replacement effects are not cumulative.


6) Do what the card says.
6.1) For a card to break a game rule it must explicitly say so. (Babayaga)


7) No weakness and resistance applied for bench damage attacks.



9) Text it italics and parenthesis is *reminder* text only. It is not part of the card for rulings purposes.


10) If an card is providing energy of a particular color then it *counts* as an energy card of that color


I have more, but why should I have all the fun ?






Rules of thumb:
If your interpretation of a card would be ridiculously broken, it's wrong. (PokePop)
Pokémon doesn't have a Golden Rule. (Me)
The text on Pokémon cards is sometimes ambiguous. (just about everyone!)

[Flippin treeko]

If effects are cleared on evolving, do you therefore discard damage counters you've had put down on your poke by things such as haunt when evolving, since for pokepowers etc. placing a damage counter is considered an effect ?

Sorry should've read the original post right, no is the answer

[Porygon3]

humm cant devolve then evolve the same turn?
who gets to flip the coin to see who goes frist?
that you have to have at least 1 basic pokemon (or fossle) in your deck?
that you can cut your oppenents deck after they shuffle?
alot of errata...?

[jesschow12]

how about suggesting the official ruling during tournament in the starter deck rule book

[SteveP]

Quote from NoPoke:
2) Effects are cleared when a Pokémon evolves

3) Effects are cleared when a Pokémon is benched.

Pages 8-9 & 13 of the rulebook state that Special Conditions and attack effects other than damage are removed upon evolution and benching. So, no need for further rules on points 2 & 3.

Regarding your comment about effects residing only on the active/defending Pokemon, I'd say that's not totally true. For example, an attack that switches the defending Pokemon with a benched Pokemon has an effect that resides on BOTH the attacked Pokemon, IMO. Same goes for attacks like Fairy Power that lets you scoop up a benched Pokemon.

Quote from Porygon:
humm cant devolve then evolve the same turn?

IMO, that shouldn't be a game rule, but left up to the particular card (like it says on the Hyper Devo Spray).

Here's one of mine. See if you can determine if it's already a rulebook entry:

- Can a non-damage attack-effect prevent a Pokemon from getting KO'd? For example, if an attack says to shuffle the attacking Pokemon card back into the deck, and it's Counter Clawed enough to KO it, will the effect save it?

[NoPoke]

come on people...


Heres one that affects lots of rulings...

If an card is providing energy of a particular color then it counts as an energy card of that color.


SteveP I was trying to limit effects to the issue of residence. An alternativeway of looking at residence is which pokemon has to be benched (etc) to clear the effect. Undoubtedly attacks can have an effect on many pokemon but as far as I'm aware all those are transitory in that they resolve within the attack. Examples include bringing up a benched pokemon, or requiring damage counters or other markers to be placed/removed.

AS to your particular question that is tricky( especially for me) as I view everything about an attack happening simultaneously. In your particular example I would rule that the card is saved and no prize given. I would rule this way because the attacking pokemon doesn't end up in the discard pile.

[NoPoke]

;) for reasons that I have never understood I am incapable of remembering the difference between affect and effect :( One is the result and the other the cause! But which, and why doen't it stick in my grey cells ?!? :(

[sneaselsrevenge]

;) for reasons that I have never understood I am incapable of remembering the difference between affect and effect :( One is the result and the other the cause! But which, and why doen't it stick in my grey cells ?!? :(

Hope this helps.

affect: influence
effect: result

[babayaga]

6) Any guideline may be superceded by specific text on a particular card.

This is a good idea, and one I've been thinking about for some time. A meta-rules clarification.

[PokePop]

;) for reasons that I have never understood I am incapable of remembering the difference between affect and effect :( One is the result and the other the cause! But which, and why doen't it stick in my grey cells ?!? :(

Hope this helps:

Affect is the Action

Effect is the Evidence of that action.

[NoPoke]

and A comes before E but like I said it don't stick :( Just a cross I have to bear *VBG*

Babayaga your 6) is problematic. Its not that it is wrong but that it requires interpretation to understand when the *MAY* applies. I'm trying for definite statements that stand alone. We need to find a way of expressing the idea behind your 6) but without the *may*.

BTW I was hoping that someone would bring up your "6)". Welcome to the fray ;)

[PokePop]

NoPoke: You don't have to remember the order.
Just go with "Action is Affect."
The other one follows. You don't have to remember them both.

As for #6, the "when" is when it specifically says that it is breaking the rule. For example, Rare Candy does not break the "nothing can evolve on the first turn" meta rule, but Giovanni does because it specifially says that it does.

[Cooltrainer Aaron]

Aren't Fossils considered Basic Pokemon only when they are placed on the field?

They are considered Trainer cards until the card is played on the field. And since during setup, you have to lay down a Basic Pokemon, Fossils don't apply because they are trainer cards during setup right?

[PokePop]

Aren't Fossils considered Basic Pokemon only when they are placed on the field?

They are considered Trainer cards until the card is played on the field. And since during setup, you have to lay down a Basic Pokemon, Fossils don't apply because they are trainer cards during setup right?

Not anymore, according to the Sandstorm Rulebook.

Of course, as NoPoke pointed out, Dragon Rulebook makes no mention of them, so it needs to be clarified with PUI.

[SteveP]

hey NoPoke, regarding your response to my question about being saved from a KO, WOTC ruled specifically on this and said that a non-damage attack-effect can NEVER save a Pokemon from getting KO'd. I believe Nintendo has stated that until they rule otherwise, WOTC rulings will be used.

Regarding non-transitory effect residence, I'm not sure what could be said in the rulebook. Remember that old Night Eyes, Perish Song ruling that caught many of us by surprise? That was a case where any generalization of effect residence would have been blown right out of the rulebook. JMO.

[babayaga]

Babayaga your 6) is problematic. Its not that it is wrong but that it requires interpretation to understand when the *MAY* applies. I'm trying for definite statements that stand alone. We need to find a way of expressing the idea behind your 6) but without the *may*.

BTW I was hoping that someone would bring up your "6)". Welcome to the fray ;)

How about this:

If a card specifically states that it ignores a guideline, it ignores the guideline.

?

[NoPoke]

updated... (and thanks for the ruling on can't be saved SteveP... I'll need to go and re-read the compendium. I hope it wasn't to do with Cross Counter ;) :( LOL )



I'm trying to figure out how to word this...

8) Nothing evolves on the first turn of play. ( ie prior to the first players draw step )

It seems to me that it is neccessary to be more precise about exactly when the first turn ends and evolution is allowed. Unfortunately I think my 8) is incorrect. Anyone care to attempt a correction?

[GuardianTIM]

I have another one...

If I have a Pokemon that becomes Paralysed and Poisoned by a single attack (such as NeoDestiny Gligar), and my pokemon has a Lum Berry attached to it, can I remove the Paralysis and Poison BEFORE I take poison damage? Or do I have to take the poison damage, and THEN remove both Special Conditions?

Just so you don't have to go digging through your cards to find it, Lum Berry reads:-
"At any time between turns, if the pokemon this card is attached to is affected by any Special Conditions, remove all of them. Then discard Lum Berry."

[NoPoke]

Guardian: you are seeking the rule about how to resolve simultaneous actions. In your particular case you get to choose so Lumm berry saves you from poison damage. Maybe someone would like to have a go at a more general rule.

[Fox!]

Couldn't Star Piece, or whatever that Pokemon Tool was that Evolved a Pokemon between turns if it had 2 damage counters on it evolve a Pokemon before Player 1's first draw step???

[BJJ763]

7) No weakness and resistance applied for bench damage attacks.


I'd add "unless the attack specificly states to apply W/R".

Deck contruction rule: You must have at least 1 Basic Pokémon in your deck.

Reason: Just to prevent headaches caused by people trying to play mulligan decks w/o Basics. Since they cannot officially start the game, their deck is illegal.

[NoPoke]

Yes Slaking38 it is Star Piece that I'm concerned about. It would be nice to come up with some words that apply to the old Wotc team play format too. I know its not a sanctioned format but it was great FUN.