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im_me
08/06/2006, 07:25 AM
Well on the front page of the Gym we have new pics for Crystal Guardians but there is one thing...Seal Crystal is now Cessation Crystal and Cessation Crystal can't be attached to ex's!!! Ugh!!! The Sceppy ex Delta/Cessation Crystal(Seal Crystal) idea is now really screwed up...lol...now that I have had my time to say my feelings I want everyone to share what they think Cessation Crystal will be the most useful for.:smile:

DarkMagnus
08/06/2006, 07:30 AM
sorry but i never thought for a minute it could be attached to ex's that just way to ungodly. if i couldn't attach a thing that gives it 20 more hp to a dark then why stopping all powers body's on non ex's would be legal? i think you should have used better critical thinking. But GL with finding a deck for him

DarkMagnus
08/06/2006, 08:10 AM
well yeah and theres gunna be mopre if shiftry gets big but i dunno raieggs isn't that great imo

im_me
08/06/2006, 08:46 AM
REggs
it has no powers or bodies, and hurts decks that play them already
cessation crystal is like rubbing salt in the wound
yep good one for seal crystal...shutoff bodies and powers and ZZZZzzzap

DarkMagnus
08/06/2006, 08:57 AM
then a windstorm comes threw and a pokemon OHKO"s the rat and draws some prizes

rroaryh
08/06/2006, 08:58 AM
Does Cessation Crystal stop bodies?

ROr

Dumb name IMO

Soma
08/06/2006, 09:06 AM
Does Cessation Crystal stop bodies?

ROr

Dumb name IMO

It means an immediate ceasing... =/
It stops Powers+Bodies, I believe...

DarkMagnus
08/06/2006, 09:06 AM
i'm pretty sure it shut off everything i could check the spoilers but i'm a bit lazy ( cept ex's)

Soma
08/06/2006, 09:08 AM
i'm pretty sure it shut off everything i could check the spoilers but i'm a bit lazy ( cept ex's)

But it shuts off ex too!

DarkMagnus
08/06/2006, 09:10 AM
i dunno about that but thats nice eather way might be another problem for my big scary tree

Papi/Manny
08/06/2006, 10:17 AM
It will see play, but I doubt it will be heavy impacting. It has to remain active, so it is just a matter of time before you ko the thing its on.

Soma
08/06/2006, 11:15 AM
It will see play, but I doubt it will be heavy impacting. It has to remain active, so it is just a matter of time before you ko the thing its on.

True that, or warppoint / reversal /etc...

DarkMagnus
08/06/2006, 11:21 AM
or cyclone or Gust of wind FTW lol

twitchy lv x
08/06/2006, 11:32 AM
the new name for the card is horrible IMO

but yes this card is going to be used in a lot of decks
and everyone is going to be playin tech windstorm

shiftrymaster68
08/06/2006, 12:43 PM
I wonder if this means Gardevior ex d's Power is going to be called Cessation instead of Seal...

DarkMagnus
08/06/2006, 01:17 PM
maybe not shiftry master they might have changed the text on the trainer so that the Gardy can stay the same and people wont associate ( sp?) the two as the same. just a thought

twitchy lv x
08/06/2006, 02:46 PM
i dont even think that they may release those theme decks cause those cards are only for japan IMO
cause those cards are way too powerful

DarkMagnus
08/06/2006, 03:02 PM
not those theme deck ( there only 30 cards) but the ttar and gardy will be printed in the set. as for to powerful i dunno about that, the ttar's attack might not even happen half the time. and the gaurdy only allows you to stop 1 pokemons power/body and the power of gardy if not the token can be annuled by BF so powerful? yes ungodly? no

Dark Umbreon
08/06/2006, 03:19 PM
Hi DarkMagnus,

Battle Frontier does not shut down Gardevoir δ ex since it is fire and not metal. However it does shut down Gardevoir δ. You need to resort to Holon Shrine or even Tropius δ in case the deck relies on abilities. Briney's Compassion is an option too but the number of decks which are able to abuse this card well is limited.

DarkMagnus
08/06/2006, 03:25 PM
sorry i didn't check the spoiler i assumed that like most stage 2 deltas it was metal.... hmmm well not that easy to shut off then. but like you said its not that super so we will just have to wait and see.
and how would this vrs. shiftry ex go? would the token shut off the body first or would the gardy take 20 then shut off the power

Prime
08/06/2006, 07:42 PM
I look back at cards that have made a big impact in this game. A lot of the time those cards are really good but with no easy to figure out way to play them. For example, Raichu δ. The second I saw the card, I knew it was good. But I didn't know the right way to play it. Before I know, a new big deck comes around with, to my amazement, Raichu δ. I was shocked to see the strategy of the deck, but wasn't surprised a good deck came out of the card.

This card gives me the same feeling. The feeling that this card is just way too good. Sure, it has counters, but most everything does. And I look at Pidgeot. A broken card IMHO, that had many counters (including Medicham/Battle Frontier/Pidgeot δ/ etc) and yet it still plays a large part of one of the best decks (the best in some eyes) of this format.

A card can have counters, and still do well. You really have to research just how effective those counters are. If most decks (flamingspinach exaggerated with 98% of all cards but most decks are affected by it) can't run the card (Cessation Crystal), and decks tech for the tool, what do those players do when a tech'd deck faces a tech'd deck. Does the tech have multiple uses, weither or not your facing the deck you've tech'd for?

Windstorm is the obvious counter to Cessation Crystal. But just how effective is the card overall? It can discard tools and stadiums, which gives it some use against decks that don't run Cessation Crystal, but I don't think it really works as well as just running an extra stadium and trumping the opponent's stadium. Also, with very little way to search for a non-supporter trainer, just how likely are you to get one in your hand when your powers and bodies are shut off?

Decks that run Magcargo and other searching powers could go after the windstorm first, just incase the other player plays the Cessation Crystal, but what do other decks do? Cessation Crystal hurts so many decks, and many of them have no search at all. Lets look at what big decks we've seen this format that have no search that Cessation Crystal would hurt.

Mewtric
Mynx
Medicham
Flariados
JynxFett
DragTrode
LunaRock
Scrambled Eggs

All these decks have no way to search their deck for a Windstorm. Some of these decks can counter it another way, but very few can. Cessation Crystal is a hard counter to many of these decks.

In conclusion, I wouldn't laugh at this card, or think that a simple Windstorm just solves this problem. Cessation Crystal is a very powerful card, and with no clear counter to it in the future set, I could definitely see it playing a large part in a new big deck.

DarkMagnus
08/06/2006, 07:59 PM
wow prime that was a long and very thought out comment, i will admit i've never really seen your point on many other topics but that was pretty much right slap it on chu or Kingler d of anything its searchable and easy to use in a deck with powers and body's ( if there not e'x and not important after) and makes alot of stuff like golem more playable. Thanks for that.

Croatian_Nidoking
08/06/2006, 08:09 PM
Cessation Crystal will be simply wicked in Tyability. Granted, it doesn't give Typhlosion the HP boost that Energy Root does, but the shutting down of your opponent's Powers/Bodies more than makes up for it.

- Croatian "more than one way to stabilize a 'Phlosion" Nidoking

im_me
08/06/2006, 09:00 PM
I look back at cards that have made a big impact in this game. A lot of the time those cards are really good but with no easy to figure out way to play them. For example, Raichu δ. The second I saw the card, I knew it was good. But I didn't know the right way to play it. Before I know, a new big deck comes around with, to my amazement, Raichu δ. I was shocked to see the strategy of the deck, but wasn't surprised a good deck came out of the card.

This card gives me the same feeling. The feeling that this card is just way too good. Sure, it has counters, but most everything does. And I look at Pidgeot. A broken card IMHO, that had many counters (including Medicham/Battle Frontier/Pidgeot δ/ etc) and yet it still plays a large part of one of the best decks (the best in some eyes) of this format.

A card can have counters, and still do well. You really have to research just how effective those counters are. If most decks (flamingspinach exaggerated with 98% of all cards but most decks are affected by it) can't run the card (Cessation Crystal), and decks tech for the tool, what do those players do when a tech'd deck faces a tech'd deck. Does the tech have multiple uses, weither or not your facing the deck you've tech'd for?

Windstorm is the obvious counter to Cessation Crystal. But just how effective is the card overall? It can discard tools and stadiums, which gives it some use against decks that don't run Cessation Crystal, but I don't think it really works as well as just running an extra stadium and trumping the opponent's stadium. Also, with very little way to search for a non-supporter trainer, just how likely are you to get one in your hand when your powers and bodies are shut off?

Decks that run Magcargo and other searching powers could go after the windstorm first, just incase the other player plays the Cessation Crystal, but what do other decks do? Cessation Crystal hurts so many decks, and many of them have no search at all. Lets look at what big decks we've seen this format that have no search that Cessation Crystal would hurt.

Mewtric
Mynx
Medicham
Flariados
JynxFett
DragTrode
LunaRock
Scrambled Eggs

All these decks have no way to search their deck for a Windstorm. Some of these decks can counter it another way, but very few can. Cessation Crystal is a hard counter to many of these decks.

In conclusion, I wouldn't laugh at this card, or think that a simple Windstorm just solves this problem. Cessation Crystal is a very powerful card, and with no clear counter to it in the future set, I could definitely see it playing a large part in a new big deck.
blows away half/whole body...wow ok this forum has now been discussed by one post....Matt you just rocked...kudus to you man

rroaryh
08/06/2006, 09:56 PM
Totally agree with Prime.

I really think Kingler d will rock this card and soon the Metagame. I mean, this card will definently expand to a powerhouse.

ROr

Dark Umbreon
08/06/2006, 10:59 PM
sorry i didn't check the spoiler i assumed that like most stage 2 deltas it was metal.... hmmm well not that easy to shut off then. but like you said its not that super so we will just have to wait and see.
and how would this vrs. shiftry ex go? would the token shut off the body first or would the gardy take 20 then shut off the power

Hi DarkMagnus,

Since abilitiesof the active player resolves first Gardevoir δ ex would shut down Shiftry before it can hurt the own team. Another reason this kind of seal counters is nice since it allows one to use the own abilities while the other side is shut down.

Hi Prime,

Nice review on the usefulness of Cessation Crystal. The card is indeed a force to take into consideration since most decks revolve around Poké-Bodies or Poké-Powers in the current and future environment.

However I disagree on the review of Windstorm. That card is at the same level as Cessation Crystal since mon-abilities based decks tend to unmake the lack of abilities with tools or stadiums. You stated that one or two more stadium cards are a better choice than Windstorm. From my point of view Windstorm opens up the possibilities for stadiumless decks. Not all decks benefit from stadiums alike and in some decks the stadium serves as a mere counter to other stadium cards. In such cases four Windstorms could take over the slots of the stadium cards since those are more versatile and cannot be locked out with Golduck δ.

Cards that do benefit the most from Cessation Crystal would be Typhlosion decks and some Holon rush decks in addition to Machamp in case psychic types become less common.

Prime
08/06/2006, 11:23 PM
Hi Dark Umbreon :P

Your right, decks could go straight Windstorm and not even have to bother with stadiums. But I feel that a lot of stadiums can help out matchups (ex: a ludicargo deck running battle frontier to counter Shiftry EX) in ways that Windstorm just doesn't help. Stadiums can be offensive (hurts/limits your opponent's deck, ex: Cursed Stone or Battle Frontier) or defensive (protects your deck and/or helps you out, ex: Power Tree or Ancient Tomb) to help your pokemon survive longer and increase your chances of winning. Windstorm can definitely be defensive when it needs to be, discarding stadiums and tools that hurt you, but I don't see it benefitting you in anyway other than that.

You might be right that some decks do not benefit very well from stadiums, but I find that many decks do, enough to warrant the steady use of stadiums.

Your opponent plays a stadium down. You can either trump their stadium or play a windstorm. One of those choices often ends in you gaining some sort of advantage over your opponent by either hurting/shutting them down, or helping/protecting you. The other choice leaves the field empty and doesn't benefit either player. Both choices have the same effect. What do you do?

DarkMagnus
08/07/2006, 08:13 AM
i think what umbreon is saying is while a stadiums is good to counter a stadium the only way to stop the chard is to 1 ko the guy its on bench him or windstorm so who knows 2 windstrom might become standard along with the 4 counter stadiums we are used to.... at least we wont have to play 5-6 stadiums any more.... heck i know some deck i don't know what stadium o play

Dark Umbreon
08/07/2006, 09:43 AM
Hi Prime,

There are indeed decks which benefit from stadium cards or even need them to work well but there are also decks which run stadiums to counter other stadiums with little benefit from the stadium on its own. In the later case Windstorm would be a more versatile choice. In decks which benefit mediocre from certain stadiums one could break even on windstorm and the chosen stadium to have a more versatile trainer choice.

For instance decks based on Poké-Powers cannot run most of the offensive stadium cards since those would shut them down too. There are also tools now which hurt said themes. In this case windstorm or an even break between a medicore assistive stadium and windstorm would be better choices.

hitmonchan93
08/07/2006, 10:12 AM
ces•sa•tion

Pronunciation: (se-sā'shun), [key]
—n.
a temporary or complete stopping; discontinuance: a cessation of hostilities.

Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Copyright © 1997, by Random House, Inc., on Infoplease

Why fancy words for simpler words?

DarkMagnus
08/08/2006, 06:16 AM
yeah but pokemons target audiance is like 7-15 i know older people play it but the target doesn't know what that means heck i'm lucky enough to know what it means and thats not saying much. i would have just called it seal. so you can use seal in sealed to stopped the power seal lol

Absoltrainer
08/08/2006, 06:42 AM
yeah but pokemons target audiance is like 7-15 i know older people play it but the target doesn't know what that means heck i'm lucky enough to know what it means and thats not saying much. i would have just called it seal. so you can use seal in sealed to stopped the power seal lol

because if it is called Seal Crystal stupid people will think it can only be used on or with Seleo and Speal

PUI did not want to make the game confusing:rolleyes:

Soma
08/08/2006, 03:59 PM
Like I said, and then another guy posted the dictionary.com defenition after me, it means to cease (in lehmans terms)

I will call it Cease Crystal...

Venusaur
08/08/2006, 04:09 PM
I'd call it CC but then people wouldn't know whether you meant Copycat or City Championship.

ZAKtheGeek
08/08/2006, 04:26 PM
Cessation. Root word: cease? Kind of like, "Cease and desist?"

Soma
08/08/2006, 04:28 PM
Cessation. Root word: cease? Kind of like, "Cease and desist?"

Indeed...