Sandstorm Prerelease: +$5 (less prizes)

[GymLeaderPhil]

As posted by our friends at PES: http://www.professional-events.com/Pokemon-Nintendo/Prerelease%20-%20Sandstorm/SandstormDet090603.htm

Entry Fee: $20

1st Place
1 Box of Pokémon-e TCG: Ex Sandstorm Booster Packs
2nd Place
16 Pokémon-e TCG: Ex Sandstorm Booster Packs
3rd Place
8 Pokémon-e TCG: Ex Sandstorm Booster Packs
4th Place
8 Pokémon-e TCG: Ex Sandstorm Booster Packs
5-8th Place
4 Pokémon-e TCG: Ex Sandstorm Booster Packs
Everybody
Prerelease Card

Question: Why is it that players pay five bucks more for less prizes? What is going on here? Product IS NOT that expensive, its coming from the source, why the extra? There are no extra little things like link cables. Why? If its towards TO's checks, I understand, but otherwise, why the extra five bucks?
-Phil

[SD PokeMom]

I guess my question would be, how does this compare in price to, say, a Magic pre-release? Is it in the same price range?


'mom

[GymLeaderPhil]

I was wondering the same thing... I looked on PES for future Magic Prereleases, saw http://www.professional-events.com/Prerelease%20-%20Mirrodin/MirrodinPre-Det.htm

Looks about the same, but more side events. But why is this event different from the last? It's the same exact format. Crazy switcharoo.
-Phil

[SD PokeMom]

As I understand it, it's NOT the same format, as the GBA portions are not included (except perhaps as side events?).

I don't really see what the problem is, myself...especially if any other TCG's prerelease tourney is in this price range. Perhaps the R/S Challenge was put on by BOTH the TCG and GBA 'arms' of Nintendo/PUI (ie: pulling from both divisions' budgets)...which would make sense, looking at the prize list. This one looks like it's TCG only; fine. From what I can remember seeing prereleases go for, entry-fee/prizes-wise...this looks in the ballpark, IMHO..

'mom

[Jugglerdave]

[Edit: Strike One....]

[Jugglerdave]

[Edit: Strike Two...]

[GymLeaderPhil]

I just think twenty bucks is a bit hefty for any 14-under (which means parental guardian) to purchase... what is the purpose of this increase???

From a customer standpoint, I dont need to enter a Sandstorm Pre Release to get cards early. There is no reason, I dont sell them early and dont need them for any sanctioned event because there are none other than the Prerleases around the country.

In addition, the prizes compaired with both previous events (R/S Challange and the Skyridge SBZ) are terrible! Although the SBZ didnt award prizes to each age group, it was intended to be a SMALLER local event compaired with the Qualifiers and Pre Releases. The Skyridge SBZ gave each participant 1 set of 3 Pokemon Promo cards compaired with one Prerelease card. The top 16 finishers recieved 1 Oversized Electabuzz Promo card. That and plus the trophies awarded to each age group. Let's look at how steep the sealed booster prizes were cut:

1st
36-36
2nd
24-16
3rd-4th
12-8
5th-8th
6-4
Promos
3-1

The R/S Challange had medals, cartridges, and gift certificates. While this funding for those items might have come from other departments as PokeMom pointed out, there is still a drop in boosters...

1st
36-36
2nd
36-16
3rd
16-8
4th
16-8
5th-8th
10-4
Promos
2-1
-Phil

[soslowpoke]

Hmm...my only guess could be that it probably costs more to speed production up like that...not to mention that you're basically buying you're 6 boosters at 'full price' as compared to a discounted price

[Cyrus]

Like previously said, it comes to no surprise if you've ever competed in one of MtG's prereleases. This is a little weird though, because you are getting $16.45's worth of product at (SRP-wise) for paying the $20.

I can assume the following:

A: That they're trying to balance the prize offset with the turnout ratio. Companies suck blood.

B: That they're charging you an "appropriate" price for the prerelease card :rolleyes:

EDIT: Oh, prereleases are indeed SIX packs, not FIVE. hehe...^^""

[SD PokeMom]

Wouldn't 6 boosters x MSRP $3.29 = $19.74?

'mom

[soslowpoke]

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE RIGHT!!!!

26 cents extra- this is pomposterous!

How dare they charge us full price for the cards and then give us an event to play with them- and give us the opportunity to win more :O


....besides, knowing the tax rates in some states I'd say 20 bucks for 6 boosters is more than a deal...

[Broken Lizard]

Three words: GET OVER IT

I'll be paying, and playing.

[GymLeaderPhil]

There really isnt a reason for this price increase, IMO. Boxes are sold at wholesale prices to the Organizers and the rest of the left over money goes towards prize support. Nintendo/PUSA should put some of their own profit into the event itself (to pay for venue and TO's salary) instead of having the event pay for itself, which results in a hefty fee for players with very little incentive. See where I'm coming from? This sort of fee for this event WILL turn away more players than the Ruby and Sapphire Challange.

OP is the only way this game can support it's current sales. The other half is from non-players.
-Phil

[soslowpoke]

I don't really think 5 dollars extra is gonna turn that many people away. Its cards before the release- I like it

[SD PokeMom]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it was my impression that one of the problems some players had with Wizards of the Coast's handling of the Pokémon TCG was that it wasn't 'serious' enough...with prereleases, for example...like M:TG. But now that it looks like PUI _IS_ treating the TCG players like 'serious' players...by holding the aformentioned prerelease tourney, in the same way and at the same price that M:TG ones are...people want to have their cake and eat it too!

Am I wrong in assuming a 'prerelease' tourney is for the CURRENT players of the game, rather than for rookies...like the R/S challenges were targeted to? Good lord, I'd hate to be with PUI's OP and have to come here and read all this; it seems like NOTHING can please the players anymore!

JMHO,
'mom

[soslowpoke]

Yes...mom hit the nail on the head there. We've been longing for Prereleases for a while (I've even been longing for the Prerelease stamped cards to return) and this is what happens =\

[farbsman]

There is one thing you must realize for these events, Nintendo requires event insurance to hold these events. This is the single most expensive part of the pre-release I will be having in Sturgis Michigan. For the one day of the tournament the cost of insurance for the event is almost $175. Plus you have to figure in the fact that we have to purchase the cards off of Nintendo for the event. I can see why they are charging the $20 for the event. You have to cover costs, and these events are not cheap to run. Also don't forget we have to pay for staff, location, food, travel, ect. It isn't just the cards we have to pay for, there are a lot of other cost going into figuring the price to enter the event.

[The Fish King]

The Ruby and Sapphire Challenge is supposed to be the big kick off. That is the reason that they are giving away more money and product than they take in. It's just like a sale a store would have when they just open. Now that the business is underway, the prices go back up.

[bulbasnore]

R&S Challenge was weak in terms of number of locations, etc.

$20 for a pre-release tourney? Fine.

I'll be there. Put one in L.A.

[Dayton_Pokémom]

There really isnt a reason for this price increase, IMO. Boxes are sold at wholesale prices to the Organizers and the rest of the left over money goes towards prize support. Nintendo/PUSA should put some of their own profit into the event itself (to pay for venue and TO's salary) instead of having the event pay for itself, which results in a hefty fee for players with very little incentive. See where I'm coming from? This sort of fee for this event WILL turn away more players than the Ruby and Sapphire Challange.

OP is the only way this game can support it's current sales. The other half is from non-players.
-Phil

We have it on good authority that the prices TO's are paying are above wholesale (we have a local retailer who is getting his stock for ~$55/box from a wholesaler). So far under Nintendo, TO's are taking losses. Six boosters retail for roughly $23 after tax. You're getting these ahead of the general public as well. You're playing for a chance to get MORE product ahead of the general public. You're getting to enjoy your day with folks whose company you enjoy. Factor in insurance, venue rental, and all the logistics that go into making a tournament happen, you're getting a bargain.

Yes, we had it good under WotC. However, we didn't get many sealed events at low cost (most ran between $12-$25). The ones that did run at low cost were later in the license's lifespan, when WotC could afford to take a loss at the cost of customer satisfaction. Nintendo isn't a fledgling company. However, the TCG Division is a fledgling division that needs to prove itself in order to survive. You can't do that at a loss initially. Consider your extra $5 seed money for later.

[Tyranitar666]

Um...Phil, im not seeing the complaint here. The prices are not bad at all. You get 6 packs of a new set before its released for 20 dollars, the shot to win more prizes, PLUS playing in a tournement which is fun. Kids having issues getting the money IS and ISNT an issue, depending on the kid here. Ive seen alot of parents be willing to put out money for events and cards before. 20 dollars isnt alot to ask especially since they are getting product for it. We have just been spoiled by sealed events ran by a company trying to toss its product :P

[TheDeuce]

What makes the most since to me is the extra $5 = the entry fee. The R/S Challenges technically have no entry fee, you just had to buy 6 booster packs, this time around, you've got the cost of the 6 boosters ($15), and the entry fee ($5). I'd still prefer to pay less, but it does make sense...

[NoPoke]

Events aren't zero-cost!

Market forces will determine if $20 is too much.

Pre-release tournaments aren't aimed at the average high-street consumer.

$20 for a whole days play and you keep the cards.

Prizes are awarded to the top players in each age category, reflecting the age categories of 15+, 11-14, and 10 & under. So prize support is trippled from what you posted???

So lets try estimating the costs....

prize support 252 boosters $600 (assuming a discount over uk estimate of $750)
Hall hire: insurance.. $200 to $300 (guessed as I don't know USA rates)

Now I estimate that there is approximately $7 margin in the 6 packs to cover the above costs... Which means that for the event to be self funding at least 100 players MUST attend!

[DARKGeNGaR094]

Q: Will there be organized play outside of North America and what sort of programs will there be?

A: We are committed to having a full slate of organized play programs internationally similar to that of North America. These programs will be implemented by local distributors but will be part of our integrated worldwide Organized Play system.


Q: When will Pokémon Organized Play be launched internationally?

A: Pokémon Organized Play will start after the product is released internationally later this summer.

As long as they stick to the above, I'm happy.

[Gym Leader Blaine]

The reason for the $20 entry fee is something I couldnt tell you. I have already had some players that are going to come to the R&S tournament, but will not come to the prerelease cause of the $5 increase in the fee. One thing to remember that this is a common fee for Magic and such games on prerelease, but the most the any player has had to pay for Pokemon before was $5 at the SBZ, other then that the Challenges and such were always free to play in. It is true that one of the big differences is that you now get 6 booster with the tournament instead of a couple of promos which is a big reason for the increase in tournament fee, but we have to help the players see and understand this.

[professorbix]

does anyone have the complete list of locations holding sandstorm pre-release tournaments??

[Dek]

www.pokemon-tcg.com just click on the link for the official site. they have a special search engine that allows you to search for your local store that would hold the tournaments.

As for the $20 entrance fee, I think its a halfway decent price for a tournamnet. Think about it... entrance to a tournament AND 6 booster packs all for $20. If memory serves me right, weren't the SBZ's $5 to enter? If so, and in this case, it would be like entering a tournament ABSOLUTELY FREE.

[Professor Renee]

I agree with the Price being TOOO high. I run a league in Orlando, and unfortunately the area we are in is not the greatest. Many of the players can not pay $15 for the tourney this weekend, let alone a pre-realease for $20.

I do COMPLETELY understand the cost of the product, however, lets not forget that many of the players do not have the money, or parents willing to spend 15-20 for the packs, then the side events, then the food, plus the expensive of just getting to the events. Believe it or not, we had some parents who complained about the $5 entry fee for SBZ!!

[TrainerJL]

I got a postcard in the mail yesterday from PES about the one in Columbus. I forgot to bring the card so I'll post the details tonight.

[TrainerJL]

Never mind, I found the link on their site.

Butler, PA (Near Pittsburg) 9/7/03 (http://www.professional-events.com/Pokemon-Nintendo/Prerelease%20-%20Sandstorm/SandstormPit090703.htm)

Columbus, OH 9/14/03 (http://www.professional-events.com/Pokemon-Nintendo/Prerelease%20-%20Sandstorm/SandstormCol091403.htm)

[NoPoke]

pre-release tournaments aren't aimed at everyone. If $20 is too steep then this one and future pre-release tourneys probably aren't for you.

There is a broad player base out there...a one-size-fits-all tournament policy is doomed.

[mtjimmer]

As a side note, I like the variety of responses for the prerelease.

Sadly, not every event will be for everyone. Forunately, I think we've got really ambitious plans - I really believe that we'll have something for everyone.

Oh, except for bad sports. That's one thing I want to be clear on - there are a lot of good-natured people who put time and energy into this, and I'm not talking about people I see working late here in Seattle (or Tokyo, for that matter). Think of all of those great judges, players, TOs, and store owners out there. Whatever personal differences crop up, there's nothing to be gained by poor ettiquette. Nothing worth keeping, at least.

Geez, that sounds negative. Well, it's only to reinforce the positive, honest. I hope if you do attend a Sandstorm prerelease, you have a great time!